Velocity changes: Changes to status credits

[koonyaflyer]

I have to say that I am very happy with the new programme. This is my fourth year as Gold, and as a self funded business traveller have always felt that the frequency of my flights has not been as well recognized in Status credits, as when ever possible I have bought the cheapest available fare. This all changed with the introduction of the Flexi fare, as I can easily justify the initial difference in fare as I do not have to worry about the change fees!

I am confused however, as my flight on Monday was HBA MEL SYD, on a Flexi fare. By my interpretation of the Earn table this should be 40 points .......2 sectors on Flexi fares at 20 SC per sector. However this appears on my statement as SYD HBA and 20SC.

I am determined that I will be Platinum!

Will call Velocity today, but would interested to hear other people's experience in relation to 2 sector flights.

 

[awilcockson]

...updates forthcoming via email...

I like the rolling 12 month SC qualification change, bur I'm a bit confused about what happens once you gain status? Does it then go bac to the old method of "must get certain number of SCs in next 12 months to retain?"

Either way, I see this as a positive step.

 

[notzac]

Does it then go bac to the old method of "must get certain number of SCs in next 12 months to retain?"

That's pretty much it - once you've been upgraded a tier, you have 12 months from that date to requalify.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I am confused however, as my flight on Monday was HBA MEL SYD, on a Flexi fare. By my interpretation of the Earn table this should be 40 points .......2 sectors on Flexi fares at 20 SC per sector. However this appears on my statement as SYD HBA and 20SC.

....would interested to hear other people's experience in relation to 2 sector flights

your experience has also been had by antycbr. See that post below.

A data point which indicates that for formal connections it's origin-destination:

I just had a MEL-SYD-CBR flight booked as a formal connection from Sunday (before the change) at fare cost $175 (=1225 old SC for Gold) post as 10 not 12 or 13. So this seems to indicate that

a) Old Bookings are going through under the new rules.
b) Further, point a is supported by my points earn of 1313 for the booking - which is $175 * 5pt/$ * 1.5 (the 50% Gold Bonus). If the old rules were in place, the points earn would be 1225.
c) The booking didn't post as 20 - and showed up as a single sector MEL-CBR which is consistent with the system's behaviour before.

From this one data point I'm inferring milk runs where connecting flights price the same as direct services, like I originally proposed (OOL-SYD-MEL) are not going to earn any better than an OOL-MEL would.

I suspect the Zone Table is a list of EVERY valid formal connecting flight on Virgin Australia (i.e. if I pick Canberra as an origin, every destination available as a direct connection from Canberra will be listed in the Zone table).

Of course until we have more data points we won't know exactly how the system behaves.

 

[Keith009]

Anyone knows if Main Cabin Select on VX is calculated as Premium Economy, or Full Economy?

It's marketed as a premium economy product, so I'm assuming Premium Economy?

Then again my Main Cabin Select Instant Upgrade fares have been credited as Discount Economy. :-|

Am intending to check out VA premium Economy to NYC, and it's an O fare so the VX sectors will be booked into O.

 

[pshepvic]

Anyone knows if Main Cabin Select on VX is calculated as Premium Economy, or Full Economy?

It's marketed as a premium economy product, so I'm assuming Premium Economy?

Then again my Main Cabin Select Instant Upgrade fares have been credited as Discount Economy. :-|

Am intending to check out VA premium Economy to NYC, and it's an O fare so the VX sectors will be booked into O.

I'm pretty sure it is Full Economy, not Premium. I think to compare to VA, it is marketed like a Flexi fare with Blue Zone seating, rather than PE.

 

[Keith009]

I'm pretty sure it is Full Economy, not Premium. I think to compare to VA, it is marketed like a Flexi fare with Blue Zone seating, rather than PE.

I'll probably get more SCs if I booked O on the VA codeshare operated by Delta then. But I'd much rather spend 5 hours flying the infinitely superior VX than DL, despite having no lounge access...

 

[koonyaflyer]

Further to my post this morning I have PM'd Velocity Rewards - as the call centre has confirmed that the routing HBA x/MEL SYD will only earn 20 SC for a Flexi fare, as it is regarded as being HBA to SYD.

I do think that the wording on the website does not reflect that.
For me the key is it is not 2 sector fares, rather 2 sectors flown.
When I look at the website this indicates that this fare, under the new rules would qualify for the Status Credits for each sector " The table below shows the Status Credit earn rate for each sector* you fly with Virgin Australia"

This then goes on to define the sector as *A sector is a direct flight from one destination to another".

It seems to me that the website should be revised to remove the reference to sector fares, and rather talk about Origin to Destination total miles flown - as this would appear to be the calculation being applied to Status credits at the moment.

Again - other than this confusion great improvements!

 

[leemin]

Further to my post this morning I have PM'd Velocity Rewards - as the call centre has confirmed that the routing HBA x/MEL SYD will only earn 20 SC for a Flexi fare, as it is regarded as being HBA to SYD.

I wonder (and hope! ) whether the call centre gave you incorrect information. Surely the website would have gone through several checks before going live..?

 

[connieguy]

Further to my post this morning I have PM'd Velocity Rewards - as the call centre has confirmed that the routing HBA x/MEL SYD will only earn 20 SC for a Flexi fare, as it is regarded as being HBA to SYD.

According to MileCalc:
MileCalc :: The Ultimate Mileage Calculator for Frequent Flyers

Hba/Syd is 645 miles or 20 DJ SCs. If it is the same flight number all the way through then DJ is correct. Next time maybe try to get different flight numbers as then you normally get SCs based on each sectors miles.

Welcome to learning how to max your SCs. Sometimes you will find the prices of individual sectors are less than the combined ticket. I always check it both ways and factor in if there will be a differential mile / points and SC earn. If you book the individual sectors as individual tickets, you will get the individual sector SCs, even if the flight number is the same. Also work out the cost per SCs and go with the lowest cost per SC. Doing it that way you will get to Silver, Gold or Platinum quicker and for less money.

 

[markis10]

According to MileCalc:
MileCalc :: The Ultimate Mileage Calculator for Frequent Flyers

Hba/Syd is 645 miles or 20 DJ SCs. If it is the same flight number all the way through then DJ is correct. Next time maybe try to get different flight numbers as then you normally get SCs based on each sectors miles.

Flight numbers have nothing to do with it (you cannot go HBA-MEL-SYD on the same flight number with QF or DJ) in terms of DJs SCs, they do with QF but it is increasingly becoming apparent that regardless of number of flights your "sector" is defined as departure point and final destination, as evidenced by the earning table examples I alluded to earlier, such as DRW-MKY!

 

[antycbr]

In the other thread on this here, I proposed some wording which might be better:

Status credits are calculated per Trip, where a Trip is a direct flight or formal connecting flight between an origin and a destination.

Then you get into the potential complexities of mixed carrier bookings, which we are now seeing people asking questions about, e.g. SYD-LAX-JFK (VA/VX). I'd expect that change of carrier would cause the end of a trip and start of a new trip. Looking at the Zone table here, you can see that zone 5 is only VA direct flights (plus Perth-Nuku'alofa... there's a status run for you!). The wording would then need to change to be something like:

Status credits on Virgin Australia (including V Australia, Pacific Blue and Polynesian Blue) are calculated per Trip, where a Trip is a direct flight or formal connecting flight between an origin and a destination.

If your booking includes one of our partner airlines (VX,NZ,SQ,EY) then status credits are calculated per Trip for any VA flights that appear on your booking and per sector (a flight with a distinct flight number) for our partner flights.

This doesn't quite work for routes such as CBR-SYD-LAX (currently DJ/VA) but could be fixed somehow - my brain hurts thinking about wording explaining how Virgin Australia is currently NOT V Australia.

Now you can see how the QF rules get to be several thousand words long....

 

[connieguy]

Flight numbers have nothing to do with it in terms of DJs SCs, they do with QF but it is increasingly becoming apparent that regardless of number of flights your "sector" is defined as departure point and final destination, as evidenced by the earning table examples I alluded to earlier, such as DRW-MKY!

If DJ are going to play the game that way (and it sure seems they are), then pricing the individual sectors and working out the lowest $/SC is the way to keep DJ honest. I do this on all my long hauls and find most of the time, buying individual sectors generates the lowest cost overall and the lowest $/SC.

As example I fly Adl/Lax QF -Y to Syd, FJ J to Hnl and AA F (YUP) to Lax. Earns 580 QF SCs return for approx $3.5k spend. 2 of those and my WP is retained.

Working out my routes now via DJ, MH, DL, EY etc. I feel like a kid in a candy shop working out how to spend my pocket money to get the best sweets. Exciting times. Well at least a new challenge.

 

[Keith009]

*A sector is a direct flight from one destination to another.

I take "destination" to mean that a sector is calculated as origin to destination, between 2 stopover points regardless of how many transit points are involved.

The "direct flight" wording is confounding though, as a "direct flight" means 1 flight number regardless of the number of stops.

So HBA-xMEL-SYD would be calculated as 1 sector but HBA-oMEL-SYD would probably be 2 sectors. I'm wondering if it'd be any different if more than 1 airline are involved? Say VA/VX MEL-xLAX-JFK.

I knew there had to be a catch with what looked at first glance like relatively generous SC counts : low re/qualification requirements for Gold!

 

[Deleted member 29185]

We got two threads discussing similar (well the same) topics.

Here's a quote I made on the other thread, which is an irregularity that hasn't been commented on either;

With the recent changes, there appears to be no longer direct flights OOL-NTL (which would have been Zone 1) but now it seems they are all OOl-MEL-NTL which should be Zone 2, but NTL-OOL is listed as Zone 1

. If VA are going to a milage based programme, it surely has to respresent the miles flown, or is there still the odd direct OOl-NTL flight so they can shove it Zone 1 despite the fact we have to usually fly over 1300 miles to get there?

 

[peakhour]

I have to say that I am very happy with the new programme. This is my fourth year as Gold, and as a self funded business traveller have always felt that the frequency of my flights has not been as well recognized in Status credits, as when ever possible I have bought the cheapest available fare. This all changed with the introduction of the Flexi fare, as I can easily justify the initial difference in fare as I do not have to worry about the change fees!

I am confused however, as my flight on Monday was HBA MEL SYD, on a Flexi fare. By my interpretation of the Earn table this should be 40 points .......2 sectors on Flexi fares at 20 SC per sector. However this appears on my statement as SYD HBA and 20SC.

I am determined that I will be Platinum!

Will call Velocity today, but would interested to hear other people's experience in relation to 2 sector flights.

This has come up many a time on AFF, and as it stands this is yet another example where Virgin Australia have listened (in part via this forum I am sure - thanks VA's team of AFF'ers!) to their loyal customers and responded.

We all look for ways to earn status as quickly and cheaply as possible, but the reality is many of us don't have the luxury of flying to Europe business class, or trying out the cnew coast to coast service just for fun to bump up our total. I'm lucky to go to Asia twice a year for business, the vast majority of my credits are earned between BNE, SYD and MEL in economy.

Who is the more loyal customer, the one who takes 10 return flights a year, or the one who takes 25?

Of course the $$ spend is the end game for the airline, and both are important.

But at the end of the day, I'm sure they benefit a lot more from me travelling with DJ domestically, than internationally on a partner airline say MH directly ticketed with that airline?

Either way, cudos to DJ for changing the SC structure in a way that benefits us loyal short hallers!

 

[connieguy]

We got two threads discussing similar (well the same) topics.

Here's a quote I made on the other thread, which is an irregularity that hasn't been commented on either;

With the recent changes, there appears to be no longer direct flights OOL-NTL (which would have been Zone 1) but now it seems they are all OOl-MEL-NTL which should be Zone 2, but NTL-OOL is listed as Zone 1

. If VA are going to a milage based programme, it surely has to respresent the miles flown, or is there still the odd direct OOl-NTL flight so they can shove it Zone 1 despite the fact we have to usually fly over 1300 miles to get there?

To my understanding, airline miles have always been calculated on Great Circle Route miles or miles as the crow flies and not as the plane flies.

MileCalc :: The Ultimate Mileage Calculator for Frequent Flyers is an excellent tool to find the point to point GCR miles.

 

[pshepvic]

Does VA actually have any flight numbers that continue on to a second destination?

From what I've seen they are always different, but I could be wrong...

 

[Deleted member 29185]

To my understanding, airline miles have always been calculated on Great Circle Route miles or miles as the crow flies and not as the plane flies.

Thanks........I think

 

[koonyaflyer]

Flight numbers have nothing to do with it (you cannot go HBA-MEL-SYD on the same flight number with QF or DJ)

We do have direct flights HBA SYD on DJ, at least 2 per day, just not at convenient times for business travel. I haven't checked QF recently, but they did have a direct daily flight too!