$ value of QF FF points

Discussion in 'Your Questions' started by brisbull, Jun 14, 2007.

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  1. brisbull

    brisbull Intern

    Jun 27, 2005
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    #1 brisbull, Jun 14, 2007
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2007
    Hopefully a quick Question...


    My sister has a spare 240k QF frequent flyer points that she wont be using anytime soon, and is looking to offload.

    I know that selling points is not allowed (FF terms and conditions), but if she gave me the points (which is allowed, as she is a family member), how expensive should her next birthday present be?

    Also, how does the QF transfer limit play into this. Is she limited to one 100k transfer a year? Is this the financial year, or calendar? And could she transfer to another person in the same year?

    Cheers
     

  2. Va Bene

    Va Bene Intern

    Oct 16, 2006
    58
    0
    MEL
    IMO, it depends on what you would do with the points and how fond you are of you sister.
    For example, 2 return Y tickets from Melb-London are 256K points plus approx $800 in taxes. The tickets if purchased would be around $4,800, so total value of the points approx $4,000. 1J award flight at 256K points would have to be $6,500-$7,000 after taxes taken into account.
    240K is 15 return flights Melb-Syd (16Kpts) plus $80 taxes (or 28Kpts inc taxes) so est value would be around $4,800 when taking into account taxes and ave fare at $400 (likely to be off peak).
    For an upgrade from discount Y to J Melb-London return it is 192Kpts which would be around $5,000 in value.
    All of this is of course dependant upon availability of flights, upgrades etc which are hard to come by depending upon your flexibility in flying.
    In summary, the points are IMO worth around $5,000 and the question is how
    much is your sister worth. I'll leave that up to you!
     
  3. simongr

    simongr Enthusiast

    Jul 10, 2006
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    The problem is that if you say the points are worth $4800 as they could buy $4800 worth of flights - then why not just buy the flights and earn the points on that (64K points based on a WP in whY).

    Also - you have to wonder what the points are worth to the sister. if she cant use them then the value to her of the points is effectively zero.

    Personally I would split the difference $2500. One person gets a cheap ticket and the other gets cash that they couldn't have had any access to previously.

    Also in terms of how much the sister is worth - perhaps the question is how much is the brother worth. Sis has points to burn and no use for them - why not just give them...
     
  4. JohnK

    JohnK Veteran Member

    Mar 22, 2005
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    Difficult question to answer and it is different for most people. Some would say value of FF points is 1c/FF point while others can get 7c/FF point or sometimes more if used for upgrades into business or first class which in my opinion are way overpriced anyway so not realy a good comparison. I normally value them at around 2c/FF point and that is based on buying economy airfares.

    If I read the terms correctly then only once every 12 months. So if she transfers some FF points to you today then she can't transfer again for another 12 months.

    QFF family transfers
     
  5. Rae

    Rae Member

    Sep 30, 2006
    159
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    If you are in fact referring to your sister, then surely no transfer of points is required if you intend using them personally. Can't she simply book the flight for you using her points?
     
  6. serfty

    Moderator

    Nov 16, 2004
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    Certainly, the higher the status of an account holder, the more useful points can become.

    CL, WP & SG points have more reward availability in WHY than PS, QP and NB. Also, there is the hierarchy in awarding Upgrades ... CL>WP>SG>PS>QP>NB.

    If mrs serfty's transfers her SG points to me they become the more potent WP points; It's a bigger change if any points are transferred to me from mini serfty's account (NB -> WP).

    It's obvious that the OP's sister is a NB, so if brisbull has any status better than that, points so transferred should become more useful.
     
  7. tinky

    tinky Intern

    Aug 2, 2006
    76
    0
    Yup that's correct. I have been the recipient of a family transfer and the family member is not able to transfer again for 12 months. When you try and click on the transfer button it actually tells you how long you have to wait till you can transfer points again from memory.
     
  8. drron

    drron Enthusiast

    Jul 4, 2002
    17,570
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    JohnK business class may not be good value but as mrsdrron will not sit in the back of a plane then business class it is.So for me 282500 points is worth just over $10000.
     
  9. serfty

    Moderator

    Nov 16, 2004
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    Of course, this has been discussed on this forum many times.

    Here a recent case in point: $ value of a QF FFP

    Note that this particular thread mentions how QF valued the points given out in a particular promotion at ~3.2¢ each.
     
  10. JohnK

    JohnK Veteran Member

    Mar 22, 2005
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    That is OK I understand. We all place different values on many things. For me if an economy seat is worth $100 then business class is possibly worth $150 and with a little stretching it could be worth $200, not $400+ as is the case SYD-MEL. It gets even worse on long haul flights, not the cost ratio but the $ difference.

    I guess I am lucky in that I still have some tolerance left and I am able to fly in economy class saving money I could use on future trips.
     
  11. Evan

    Evan Established Member

    Dec 26, 2006
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    I fly a lot of Y and i upgrade key routes or if i have my significant other with me (good idea for my sanity) but i tend to use the $ value at 1c per point so 17000 point MEL-SYD return is worth $170 or so. Sure it seems low but also reflects the fact seats are not always available or at the time i want them.

    In reality i only use points for Y -> J on long haul anyway.

    E
     
  12. simongr

    simongr Enthusiast

    Jul 10, 2006
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    For me that is the key point. I dont think that FF points can be valued on a "what flight can they buy" basis as they are not as useful as cash in buying tickets - they are highly restrictive, earn no mile themselves and have low availability - sounds almost like they should be valued like a red-e-deal?

    Based on the red-e-deal analogy - if you say pick a SYD-MEL red-e-deal in August - that is about 252+ taxes - for a 16,000 point flight. That works out at about 0.6c/point - factoring in fuel charges (which are higher on awards) and that figure will come down....
     
  13. serfty

    Moderator

    Nov 16, 2004
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    I did a rough calculation from that other thread:
    Let's get more precise:

    Now for that $252 MEL-SYD-MEL red e-deal, it comes out at $251.99.

    This is composed of $156 for the fare and 95.99 in +++ of which $15.60 is GST on the fare component, leaving $80.39. (FWIW, this $80.39 has a further GST component of $7.31.)

    To book an award it is 16K points and $80.39 or 16K points and 12K points.

    Based on that you have $16K point to avoid an outlay $171.60 or 1.07¢pp (Cents per point).

    Using the additional 12K to avoid the $80.39 returns a lower value at 0.67¢pp.

    Upgrading MEL-PER?

    A Super Saver costs from $361, J costs $1575 & to upgrade costs 16K points, so that a fare difference of $1214 at 7.59¢pp.

    A Flexi-fare costs from $686 and 10K points to upgrade. So we have an $889 fare difference at 8.89¢pp.
     
  14. simongr

    simongr Enthusiast

    Jul 10, 2006
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    Again - one needs to be very careful comparing the points used vs. the costs avoided. If that was the case then just use the money and get the additional flexibility of a purchased ticket (e.g. travel insurance if paid on a gold card). Also - in your calc you should factor in the points not earned? The cost in points of the 16K award is in fact 18K points as you miss out on this by not buying the ticket.

    It is at the end of the day all about supply and demand - how much do you want to pay for the points and how much does your sister want. Frankly I would not enter into any financial transaction with any member of my family or any friend it only has the opportunity to go wrong...
     
  15. ColinP

    ColinP Member

    May 1, 2006
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    Adelaide
    I agree, but to be fair, the OP didn't mention entering a 'financial transaction' What he said was -- "how expensive should her next birthday present be?" I'd suggest that her present should cost in the region of $2K - $3K
     
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