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$ value of a QF FFP

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Altair

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I know that there has been some talk about how much value an FFP is, I think it was in the mega-long QF takeover thread.
I have been shopping around for FX deals, notice the sharp drop in the value of the Kiwi $ as soon as I started this, in reference to the Altair factor or (Altair Axiom) I prove my case.....
Anyway I picked up the T&C for the QF Travelex competition and I noticed the following
100,000 Qantas Frequent Flyer Points could be redeemed for one return economy seat between Sydney and Los Angles. Surcharges, fees and taxes apply to Award seats....The maximum retail value of one of these flights is AUD $3,191. Total nominal prize pool value is $31,910
So does this mean that 1 QF FFP = $0.03191 AUD? I do not believe QF values the QFFP liability in their balance sheet this much, I know I am sure they worked out the redemption, expiration ratio etc....
 

serfty

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Very few people book full WHY fares. What QF are doing is maximizing their tax deductibility for the promotion.

$1700 (i.e. Excluding +++) is a better valuation of a return fare on this route. Also, methinks it 96,000 for an East Coast Oz/West Coast LOTFAP return journey.
 

Evan

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I believe from what i have read here and elsewhere that the value is really 0.01, or a cent a point. Thats potentially what credit card companys etc pay to award you points.

So for tax reasons the value stated is higher serfty has very correctly pointed out.

E
 

Altair

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Yes, but is Qantas using the same rules for all redemptions?
If they charge 1 cent a point, I think it may have gone up, for companies to use in loyalty programs, are they using the redemptions based on full Y costs? Or is it just for promotions such as this?
 

serfty

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Altair said:
... Or is it just for promotions such as this?
Methinks it's specific to the particular promotion ...

What's a point worth/

8,000 for MEL-SYD? With a normal red e-deal fare of $125; take the +++ out and it's ~$80 so there's your 1cent rate.

16,000 for a confirmed upgrade PER-MEL; Saver fare $350, J fare $1530; difference $1180, that's 7.4 cents per point.
 

oz_mark

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I guess they just have to assign some sort of value to the points they are giving away. I wouldn't have thought that this would bear any relationship to how it is treated in their books
 

NM

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oz_mark said:
I guess they just have to assign some sort of value to the points they are giving away. I wouldn't have thought that this would bear any relationship to how it is treated in their books
But in this case they have selected an example of what the points could be use for, and then provided the maximum value of a paid ticket on that route. However, if X inventory was available on the flight you want to book (in order to use FF points), then chances are good that the realistic alternative of the lowest available fare will be more like half the value they have quoted.
 

JohnK

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serfty said:
8,000 for MEL-SYD? With a normal red e-deal fare of $125; take the +++ out and it's ~$80 so there's your 1cent rate.

16,000 for a confirmed upgrade PER-MEL; Saver fare $350, J fare $1530; difference $1180, that's 7.4 cents per point.
Based on the assumption that points are worth 1c then 16,000 points for upgrade PER-MEL would make the business class fare, based on the saver fare, around $510 which is twice the normal red e-deal PER-MEL.

I know it is a monopoly but I do not understand how QF gets away charging $1530 for J PER-MEL. That is 6 times the normal red e-deal fare! I do not think that the J service or comfort value is worth that much more than an economy seat. Anyway....
 

tuapekastar

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JohnK said:
Based on the assumption that points are worth 1c then 16,000 points for upgrade PER-MEL would make the business class fare, based on the saver fare, around $510 which is twice the normal red e-deal PER-MEL.

I know it is a monopoly but I do not understand how QF gets away charging $1530 for J PER-MEL. That is 6 times the normal red e-deal fare! I do not think that the J service or comfort value is worth that much more than an economy seat. Anyway....
I agree with you re the cost to comfort ratio being way over the top, but on a 743 MEL-PER-MEL trip I took, the flight out had 1 empty J seat (in the pointy bit, don't know about upper deck), and the flight back in had no spare seats (again, in pointy bit). So they must be able to sell them at that price (either that or everyone upgraded using points like me :cool: ). And I think points upgrade on that route is worth it (refer serfty's post), though I did specifically select the 743 flights, not sure I'd do it on, say, a 738. Only downside being the QP bar wasn't open for either flight :(
 

Skyring

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The value of a FFP is a very squidgy concept. My feeling is that they price seats and awards according to what the market will bear, rather than do any sort of exact equivalence. If you look at upgrades, then they work out to be by far the best value for spending FFPs. But then again the cost difference between economy and business is another of those flexible notions. Is a better meal and more room worth a thousand dollars? Of course not. It's merely what people will pay for business class.

Worst value is buying things in the Qantas shop for points. As far as I can see you are just throwing them away when a bit of comparison shopping will yield far better prices elsewhere.

The bottom line is that the best value for you is spending them on things that you want and will make you happy. After all, these things are essentially freebies, and it's better to spend them than to die with a million virgin points.
 

jpk

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tuapekastar said:
I agree with you re the cost to comfort ratio being way over the top, but on a 743 MEL-PER-MEL trip I took, the flight out had 1 empty J seat (in the pointy bit, don't know about upper deck), and the flight back in had no spare seats (again, in pointy bit). So they must be able to sell them at that price (either that or everyone upgraded using points like me :cool: ). And I think points upgrade on that route is worth it (refer serfty's post), though I did specifically select the 743 flights, not sure I'd do it on, say, a 738. Only downside being the QP bar wasn't open for either flight :(
any comments as to the service level on these 743 flights? i have a number of flights out of PER coming up and am wondering if its worth upgrading. particularly interested in thoughts on the food/booze offerings, and attention from crew.

thanks,
jk.
 

tuapekastar

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jpk said:
any comments as to the service level on these 743 flights? i have a number of flights out of PER coming up and am wondering if its worth upgrading. particularly interested in thoughts on the food/booze offerings, and attention from crew.

thanks,
jk.
Quite happy to share my thoughts jpk, though I'm sure there are many who fly far more frequently on this route and plane than me who could also proffer opinions. The flights in question were 4 or 5 months ago so memory a little hazy on detail, but my recollection is that the service was both friendly (without being over the top) and efficient. Nothing wrong with the food, and it was abundant (they kept offering me more, in fact I had to hold the hand up and say enough thanks)!

MEL-PER was a breakfast flight (0815 dep.), and PER-MEL a lunch flight (1025 dep.)

I didn't ask for alcohol on MEL-PER, and I don't think it was offered, though I'm guesssing it could be had if desired. On the PER-MEL lunch flight it was like with the food...they wouldn't stop refilling my glass of red (they had 2 reds, can't recall what they were but they were both quite good, and I didn't hold my hand up to stop them quite as readily as I did with the food ;) ).

Both flights had pre take-off water or OJ.

And of course the seats (main reason for choosing 743 flight over 763 or 738) are "Dreamtime" seats and very comfortable, with plenty of pitch. And in-seat IFE. Complimentary newspaper, and headset waiting in seat.

Just an addition: I guess crew service standards can vary somewhat between flights, but I can only report on my own experience here, which was good.
 

jpk

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tuapekastar said:
Quite happy to share my thoughts jpk, though I'm sure there are many who fly far more frequently on this route and plane than me who could also proffer opinions. ... And of course the seats (main reason for choosing 743 flight over 763 or 738) are "Dreamtime" seats and very comfortable, with plenty of pitch. And in-seat IFE. Complimentary newspaper, and headset waiting in seat.

Just an addition: I guess crew service standards can vary somewhat between flights, but I can only report on my own experience here, which was good.
thanks tuapekastar. you're right about varying crew standards, but sounds like 743 should be worth an upgrade attempt, whereas the other planes i've never seen the point really...

cheers,
jk.
 
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