VA562 misses Sydney curfew but lines up for approach anyway

[Human]

All welcome to Australia's biggest and best city, Melbourne, and our 24 hour curfew free airport! (Sorry, it's a Friday arvo).

Yeah, MEL is so fantastic that it doesn't even have a rail line to the airport!

(In fairness, though, it has the cheapest airport parking in the country... and at least you can walk between the terminals).

 

[Quickstatus]

All welcome to Australia's biggest and best city, Melbourne, and our 24 hour curfew free airport!

And thank you for patronising MEL/SYD/BNE/PER. It adds to my super fund

 

[SeatBackForward]

Out of curiousity, is the curfew at SYD purely due to noise levels? or are there other factors?

Surely noone can now claim they didn't know about the airports existence when building/purchasing a house.

 

[Quickstatus]

Out of curiousity, is the curfew at SYD purely due to

See Member for Grayndler's maiden parliamentary speech

 

[Aeryn]

Out of curiousity, is the curfew at SYD purely due to noise levels? or are there other factors?

Noise, a very outdated stance given todays planes are much quieter than those of last century

Surely noone can now claim they didn't know about the airports existence when building/purchasing a house.

Exactly! Anyone living under the flight path today knowingly bought / rented there, as its been an airport for 105 years.

Further when 3rd runway opened, government spent a motza of tax payer funds providing grants for home owners to better noise insulate their homes.

Western Sydney Airport wont have a curfew yet some claim will eventually have many more people living under the flight path in homes that didn't get free insulation. Just a case of continued NIMBYism.

I lived directly under the SYD flight path for years and my current home occasionally gets fly-over noise when weather causes non usual approaches to be used. I can say from experience you cant really hear the noise inside a modern home, only when outside in yard.

It should be a non issue and removed for flights approaching from the water or at the very least reduced to 12am - 5am only. They allow flights at 6am but unless flying for work Id usually be asleep at 6am but wide awake at 11:30pm.

 

[odysseus]

they reslly need to get rid of the curfew. This is just insane, the wasted fuel and associated coats of an aircraft in the wrong city, crew out of position, accomodation costs etc etc. these things are so quiet when, when you compare to the old 707/727/dc9 and early 747s. Plus coming in over the bay, very few homes under them. Its just insane.

Except how can you guarantee that conditions are fine in the curfew period to come in over the bay? The reason for the different runways is to cater for wind direction.

You can't; hence curfew can't be removed.

And just because they are quieter now than they used to be doesn't mean they are quiet. Fine-ish if you're not trying to sleep (depending where you are), but another thing entirely if you are trying to sleep.

 

[Happy Dude]

Out of curiousity, is the curfew at SYD purely due to noise levels? or are there other factors?

Surely noone can now claim they didn't know about the airports existence when building/purchasing a house.

Noise, a very outdated stance given todays planes are much quieter than those of last century



Exactly! Anyone living under the flight path today knowingly bought / rented there, as its been an airport for 105 years.

Further when 3rd runway opened, government spent a motza of tax payer funds providing grants for home owners to better noise insulate their homes.

Western Sydney Airport wont have a curfew yet some claim will eventually have many more people living under the flight path in homes that didn't get free insulation. Just a case of continued NIMBYism.

I lived directly under the SYD flight path for years and my current home occasionally gets fly-over noise when weather causes non usual approaches to be used. I can say from experience you cant really hear the noise inside a modern home, only when outside in yard.

It should be a non issue and removed for flights approaching from the water or at the very least reduced to 12am - 5am only. They allow flights at 6am but unless flying for work Id usually be asleep at 6am but wide awake at 11:30pm.

You'll be required to submit a noise assessment (demonstrating how noise will be ameliorated) as part of the DA process if the land is within an overlay of some sort (varies from state to state) or is within certain noise exposure 'contours'. It will also be evident during the purchase process if the gov has designated the land as affected by aircraft noise (or other external noise for that matter).

Aircraft have been getting quieter, and this is reflected in the Australian Standard used for the aforementioned noise assessments. It's hard for the standard (AS2021) to keep up though. The current version was released in 2015 and it superseded the 2000 version.

Noise would be the main/only reason for a curfew AFAIK.

 

[Rabs97]

The technology that should be used more for noise abatement is RNP-AR. It allows curved approach paths rather than being lined up on final 10-15NM from the runway.

For instance in Canberra the RNP approach from the south curves its way around the populated areas of Queanbeyan whereas the ILS flies over them. Whilst it cannot be used for all runways, especially Sydney, the use of these approaches should be pushed more for noise abatement as older aircraft without that capability are retired. There is some resistance from certain operators however who prefer just using ILS.

 

[TMP]

Yeah, MEL is so fantastic that it doesn't even have a rail line to the airport!

Not the thread for it, being off topic and all, but as someone working in transport planning, I'm still not convinced of both the economics or patronage need for a rail line in Melbourne. But we'll leave that for another time and place!

 

[SeatBackForward]

But we'll leave that for another time and place!

Thread 'Six million people a year would use train to Melbourne Airport'

May 21, 2013

In the biggest no cough Sherlock study ever, people will embrace rail to MEL, however I think $16 is a bit steep.

No Cookies | thetelegraph.com.au

• whatmeworry
• Replies: 420
• Forum: Train Travel

 

[Rob.au]

Fine is $1100000 (1000 penalty units).

I think there is also a fine for doing a missed approach, and for using more than idle reverse thrust, during curfew period

The current commonwealth penalty unit amount is $330 (Crimes Act 1914 Section 4AA), however a court can multiply it by 5 for a body corporate, which makes it up to $1,650.

• Fine for landing/taking-off without dispensation or being exempt like the BAe 146 ops - 1000 penalty units (up to $1,650,000).
  
  
• If using greater than idle reverse during landing, the operator has to file paperwork giving reasons. Fine for not lodging that paperwork - 50 penalty units (up to $82,500).
  
  
• If a missed approach occurs, the operator has to file paperwork giving reasons, including the wind conditions at the time and the aircraft's downwind limits. Fine for not lodging that paperwork - 50 penalty units (up to $82,500).

A figure of $1.1m is often mentioned - I'm guessing that was calculated at the time a penalty unit was $222, which was not that long ago - from 1 July 2020 to 31/12/2022. It's also the amount mentioned on Curfew at Sydney Airport.

 

[MarkD]

Except how can you guarantee that conditions are fine in the curfew period to come in over the bay? The reason for the different runways is to cater for wind direction.

You can't; hence curfew can't be removed.

And just because they are quieter now than they used to be doesn't mean they are quiet. Fine-ish if you're not trying to sleep (depending where you are), but another thing entirely if you are trying to sleep.

I grew up in Camperdown in the days of f28, DC9 and 727. Didnt bother me and i could tell the model by the sound ( or the black plumes of smoke when taking off). But I guess Im a bit of a weirdo too

 

[bam71]

Yes I think we can all agree that if I want to go to Sydney that it all, not some curfew

 

[clifford]

But I guess Im a bit of a weirdo too

Absolutely not!

When I was a younger person, I used to have TSR2s flying over my house. I even had a view of BLK airport.

 

[Sprucegoose]

All welcome to Australia's biggest and best city, Melbourne, and our 24 hour curfew free airport! (Sorry, it's a Friday arvo).

Well connected by Skybus......

 

[Scenicbumblebee]

I grew up in Camperdown in the days of f28, DC9 and 727. Didnt bother me and i could tell the model by the sound ( or the black plumes of smoke when taking off). But I guess Im a bit of a weirdo too

Not weird at all.

In years gone by, I lived in London under the approach to LHR, I kid you not, the aircraft flying over each day was my clock.
I could absolutely tell the time of day by which airline, and which aircraft time was flying over when.

I thought everyone did it.....it turns out that many people don't even recognise airlines, let alone aircraft or what time they fly over day after day after day......

 

[eagleinsydney]

they reslly need to get rid of the curfew. This is just insane, the wasted fuel and associated coats of an aircraft in the wrong city, crew out of position, accomodation costs etc etc. these things are so quiet when, when you compare to the old 707/727/dc9 and early 747s. Plus coming in over the bay, very few homes under them. Its just insane. Western sydney airport cannot open soon enough. Looking at Flightradar, it got pretty close but never slowed to landing speed anyway, but depends on how accurate FR is, as it shows zero feet 180 knots. So not very accurate by the looks.

100% agree with your post WHERE are the greens and labor lefties over this waste of resources?

 

[XWu]

Re;: Sydney airport curfew
I remember the protests in the mid 1990s; it had more hateful speeches and blind anger than the federal election we just had.
Families coming out saying the planes are waking up the babies and the late night and others stories.
As if they didn’t know all that before they moved in. I lived in the inner suburbs for 4 years at the time. Didn’t understand why it suddenly became an issue (I suspect a few anarchists and political aspirants is behind it) but certainly the government(s) nipped any further political aspirations of No Airport Noise party candidates with that curfew…. No prizes on where those politicians go to after the party fizzles out
Today more air traffic during daytime than ever which is not affected by said curfew whereas most late night flights are not that viable such that curfew affected not much of the existing traffic (curfew at SYD is limited to large jets, does not apply to propellers plane or small private jets) as far as I concerned

 

[bussyboy]

Noise, a very outdated stance given todays planes are much quieter than those of last century

The late night A380's climbing after departure over Homebush 10-11pm were still quite loud when I lived there 4 years ago

 

[Azro]

The late night A380's climbing after departure over Homebush 10-11pm were still quite loud when I lived there 4 years ago

6:20 am A380 is flying quite low and pretty loud here at Homebush.