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Use of OOL by NSW residents to access NNSW

BNEFlyer

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I'm sorry I am a Queenslander and I don't support the closing of the border.There is no medical reason for it.That is the opinion of an expert in the field the deputy Commonwealth CMO who is a world renown epidemiologist.Yesterday an Adelaide professor of virology came out in support.Aren't we meant to believe the science?
In the last 2 months of lockdown QLD tourism is estimated to have lost $9 billion.If the border is closed until September there is another $18 billion lost.Tourism businesses will be decimated.So definitely not all business is supporting the closure.
The QLD Chief Medical Officer has advised that the borders should remain closed for now, so yes I beleive the science. Also it was noted in the 3 step plan released a few weeks ago that July would be when travel restrictions would be reviewed, so there's nothing to say we won't be able to go outside the state from July onwards, though it may be September.

I can understand it's having a huge impact on buiness, which to me says the Premier and CHO must think it's prudent the border stays closed for now, otherwise she'd have QLD open for business.
 

drron

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The QLD Chief Medical Officer has advised that the borders should remain closed for now, so yes I beleive the science. Also it was noted in the 3 step plan released a few weeks ago that July would be when travel restrictions would be reviewed, so there's nothing to say we won't be able to go outside the state from July onwards, though it may be September.

I can understand it's having a huge impact on buiness, which to me says the Premier and CHO must think it's prudent the border stays closed for now, otherwise she'd have QLD open for business.
An epidemiologist ranks way above a CHO who has not had a clinical job in 26 years.The science is on the side of the Deputy CMO and a Professor of Virology.
Besides the QLD CHO has admitted that the closing of schools was not based on science but to scare the populace to believe in the lockdown.She has form.
 

justinbrett

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I feel like you have missed the point, you are the exact person that the Queensland Government is trying to keep out. The person who has no real reason to come to queensland, but would anyway just for a visit.
Well, apart from the fact I am from Brisbane and all of my immediate family are there and I haven’t seen them in months. I am going to Kingscliff because it’s the closest I could get to them and they are allowed to cross the border and stay with me. No isolation on the way back. Which makes the whole policy ridiculous.

More likely to point out the numerous flaws in a thought bubble than seems to be almost entirely motivated by politics. (Who is this Anna? Plus the usual NSW bashing of QLD politics). What about every other state that has closed the borders? The OP doesn't seem to have as much concern with those other states.

As you say an issue that is likely to resolve about the time the have the final construction plans.
No other state border closure effects a community like QLD is affecting NNSW.

Currently "Only Queensland residents, residents of border communities undertaking essential activities and those considered an ‘exempt person’ are allowed to enter Queensland via air, sea, rail or road from another State or Territory. " So you're correct that you don't need to quarantine, but that's because you wouldn't be allowed into the state for the purpsoe of tourism, including flying to OOL then going to northern NSW.
If you’re going to argue with me please get your facts right. Refer to paragraph 11 of the Border Restrictions Direction No. 5

  1. Domestic air travel
    A person who enters Queensland by air and is required to transfer as soon as possible to another flight is an exempt person if:
    1. they remain in the airport until the time of transfer to the other flight and comply with a requirement or direction of a relevant authority; or
    2. they comply with a direction to self-quarantine given by a relevant authority.
 

BNEFlyer

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If you’re going to argue with me please get your facts right. Refer to paragraph 11 of the Border Restrictions Direction No. 5
I’m not arguing. And paragraph 11 states that someone can transit through QLD to another flight, so where do you expect people to fly to from OOL? Back to NSW/Vic?
 

justinbrett

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I’m not arguing. And paragraph 11 states that someone can transit through QLD to another flight, so where do you expect people to fly to from OOL? Back to NSW/Vic?
So for the benifit of those who can’t be bothered reading the posts they reply to, my statement was “As above for the irrelevance of where certain airport facilities are located within the precinct - it's all federal land so it doesn't matter. If you helicopter into OOL you don't need a border pass. The question is whether NSW residents can get to airport land either without driving through Queensland or (more likely) under a "Free transit" arrangement where they don't police that stretch of land.”

The point, which is an objective statement that doesn’t require argument, the airport is federal land that NSW residents can access without being subject to Queensland law. The issue is they can’t get to it due to the access road being on the Queensland side. Queensland should permit NSW residents to drive the 900m stretch of road that goes through Queensland to get to the airport.

Also OOL is owned and operated by Queensland Airports Limited. It's not a joint venture between QLD and NSW, so QLD rules apply. During daylight saving, it's still on QLD time too.
This is a ridiculous statement. QAL is a private company, it has nothing to with the Queensland government. Ownership doesn’t dictate which jurisdictions law applies. For the récord QAL describes itself as an operator of four airports in Queensland and Northern NSW. The other three are Mt Isa, Townsville and Longreach. So I guess they consider the airport to be in both states (which google maps will also show you)
 

Nitw

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The science is on the side of the Deputy CMO and a Professor of Virology.
Lets be honest here, there is no definitive answer to this situation. If you asked 1000 scientists which side the science is on, you would get very little other than personal preferences. There is some science that says it will have little/no effect, and some science that says it could have major impacts in flattening the curve.

Well, apart from the fact I am from Brisbane and all of my immediate family are there and I haven’t seen them in months. I am going to Kingscliff because it’s the closest I could get to them and they are allowed to cross the border and stay with me. No isolation on the way back. Which makes the whole policy ridiculous.
You understand that where you are from, and where your family live have nothing to do with the spread of virus right?

I very much understand that this is a difficult time for you, and not being able to be with your family is difficult. Obviously my opinion is biased to the fact that all my family live within QLD borders and nearly all are within 150km radius of my house. But at the same time, your view is also obviously biased by the fact that all your relatives are on the other side of the border.

I feel like you are trying to make three separate arguments here. The first one is about NSW residents accessing OOL, as far as that one goes I don't think it is as big of an issue as you claim it to be. For those few people who are hoping to holiday in northern NSW, Fly to Ballina/Byron and drive a bit further. Yes it is less convenient, but there are a lot of people being much more inconvenienced by COVID.

The second argument is about the border closures in general. While there is some debate to be had, and there are businesses who are majorly inconvenience by the closures, QLD government are obviously taking the viewpoint of putting lives first, then worrying about the economy. Personally, if I was a politician, I would take a similar viewpoint. Its much easier to justify your actions later, if you are responsible for a stagnating economy, rather than if you are responsible for hundreds of deaths.

The third argument is about your personal holiday to Kingscliff. You seem to have found a reasonable workaround for the closures, I don't think that your family going back to their homes after the visit to you would "make the whole policy ridiculous." After all, the policy is designed to stop the mass movement of people across the border, not the small scale movement of a few people. It is not designed to be the Berlin wall, but to police movement so that we don't see a major spike in movement of people from hotspots.
 

Le Clair

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Just to weigh in here. Vehicles from NSW are allowed into Queensland. Had a friend from Southern NSW who presented at the border and was asked where he was from and where was going. His license was checked to establish his address against a list of "zero cases" postcodes and as he came from a zero cases postcode, he was free to enter. Total delay was, apparently, 15 minutes.
 

gecko24

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As a Queenslander I am bemused by the heat Qld is receiving (with a lot of pressure from the Federal Government as well as assorted ministers within and outside Qld to "open up") yet all the other States with closed borders vis WA, SA, NT, Tasmania appear to be receiving no flak whatsoever. Does all of NSW and Victoria only come to Qld for a winter holiday?
 

p--and--t

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As a Queenslander I am bemused by the heat Qld is receiving (with a lot of pressure from the Federal Government as well as assorted ministers within and outside Qld to "open up") yet all the other States with closed borders vis WA, SA, NT, Tasmania appear to be receiving no flak whatsoever. Does all of NSW and Victoria only come to Qld for a winter holiday?
Well if you are down south in the best state overall, approaching winter and its 5-11C, we are not looking for holidays in TAS & SA. WA is too far away having cyclonic winds and rain, NSW is Ruby country, the NT is too expensive and we are banned from going overseas. Where else are we going to go?

..and ACT, don't even dare to mention it 😂
 

BNEFlyer

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Well if you are down south in the best state overall, approaching winter and its 5-11C, we are not looking for holidays in TAS & SA. WA is too far away having cyclonic winds and rain, NSW is Ruby country, the NT is too expensive and we are banned from going overseas. Where else are we going to go?

..and ACT, don't even dare to mention it 😂
Tweed Coast to Mid-North Coast must still be too cold for them?!
 

drron

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Some mayors on the NSW coast are now,probably tongue in cheek,asking for Queenslanders to be banned from entering NSW.
And with the case in Rockhampton and now 2 cases in Blackwater with one death and no explanation of how it was caught it might now be safer in NSW than QLD.;)
 

Vic

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I'm sorry I am a Queenslander and I don't support the closing of the border.There is no medical reason for it.That is the opinion of an expert in the field the deputy Commonwealth CMO who is a world renown epidemiologist.Yesterday an Adelaide professor of virology came out in support.Aren't we meant to believe the science?
In the last 2 months of lockdown QLD tourism is estimated to have lost $9 billion.If the border is closed until September there is another $18 billion lost.Tourism businesses will be decimated.So definitely not all business is supporting the closure.
Epidemiology is concerned with incidence and distribution of diseases, so of course there is no medical reason from an epidemiologist. Even if epidemiology is a branch of medicine, it consider population level issues, not individual medical causes, treatments and effects.
Perhaps look into the work being undertaken by the Doherty Institute using genomes to track the spread. There is still some possibility of unknown spread of covid, hence the borders are still closed.
Post automatically merged:

An epidemiologist ranks way above a CHO who has not had a clinical job in 26 years.The science is on the side of the Deputy CMO and a Professor of Virology.
Besides the QLD CHO has admitted that the closing of schools was not based on science but to scare the populace to believe in the lockdown.She has form.
epidemiology isn't a clinical job either. Medical reason, now clinical jobs?? please stop trying to pretend epidemiology has anything to do with clinical work.

Some mayors on the NSW coast are now,probably tongue in cheek,asking for Queenslanders to be banned from entering NSW.
And with the case in Rockhampton and now 2 cases in Blackwater with one death and no explanation of how it was caught it might now be safer in NSW than QLD.;)
Oh look at that - cases with an unknown source. Precisely why the borders remain closed.
 

Vic

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No other state border closure effects a community like QLD is affecting NNSW.
Really? Mildura/Renmark? NT to Adelaide for higher level medical care, Mt Gambier? Broken Hill?

All places there trans border travel is common, required and better than heading to Sydney.
 
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So for the benifit of those who can’t be bothered reading the posts they reply to, my statement was “As above for the irrelevance of where certain airport facilities are located within the precinct - it's all federal land so it doesn't matter. If you helicopter into OOL you don't need a border pass. The question is whether NSW residents can get to airport land either without driving through Queensland or (more likely) under a "Free transit" arrangement where they don't police that stretch of land.”

The point, which is an objective statement that doesn’t require argument, the airport is federal land that NSW residents can access without being subject to Queensland law. The issue is they can’t get to it due to the access road being on the Queensland side. Queensland should permit NSW residents to drive the 900m stretch of road that goes through Queensland to get to the airport.



This is a ridiculous statement. QAL is a private company, it has nothing to with the Queensland government. Ownership doesn’t dictate which jurisdictions law applies. For the récord QAL describes itself as an operator of four airports in Queensland and Northern NSW. The other three are Mt Isa, Townsville and Longreach. So I guess they consider the airport to be in both states (which google maps will also show you)
Do you expect the aircraft to turn around on the runway, if the wind requires it, or re-enter it in order to backtrack when traffic permits, pop back to NSW, disgorge pax on to a set of temporary stairs while holding all other aircraft up as the NSW pax get their luggage, then spend some more AVTUR getting to the terminal, all the while occupying the runway? And that Airservices Australia, for whom I worked for decades as an ATC, would tolerate that? Crash gates exist - this will surprise you - for a crash; that's why they're there, not for letting disgruntled citizens of NSW out of B737s being disgorged in the middle of a pandemic.

Perhaps Anna is wrong; perhaps her CHO is wrong, but they do not deserve ridicule.

Personally, I am looking forward to a relaxing week or two on one of the coasts this year, as they're usually filled by Cockroaches and Mexicans
 

LHT

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With NSW permitting regional travel from 01 June, northern NSW (Tweed Heads - Byron etc) is as close to a Queensland holiday as we can get for now.

While Ballina would be an option for Byron, OOL is much more suitable for the border region. As airports are federal land, and the airport actually sits in both states, it stands to reason that NSW should have access to the airport. However, as the terminal and road exit is on the Queensland side, this won’t be permitted without a border pass.

The federal government should challenge this - or maybe build a temporary exit to the NSW side?
i live in Qld and yes, it is a great state but NSW is great too and you have so many places to explore. I just don't get this huge push for QLD borders to open and the lengths people want to go to, to do so. Patients people!
 

p--and--t

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i live in Qld and yes, it is a great state but NSW is great too and you have so many places to explore. I just don't get this huge push for QLD borders to open and the lengths people want to go to, to do so. Patients people!
More patience is desirable, more patient's much less so 🤣
 

drron

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Epidemiology is concerned with incidence and distribution of diseases, so of course there is no medical reason from an epidemiologist. Even if epidemiology is a branch of medicine, it consider population level issues, not individual medical causes, treatments and effects.
Perhaps look into the work being undertaken by the Doherty Institute using genomes to track the spread. There is still some possibility of unknown spread of covid, hence the borders are still closed.
Post automatically merged:


epidemiology isn't a clinical job either. Medical reason, now clinical jobs?? please stop trying to pretend epidemiology has anything to do with clinical work.


Oh look at that - cases with an unknown source. Precisely why the borders remain closed.
Maybe you should do a little research.Prof Kelly is indeed medically trained and he was the Principal Investigator in the intial set up of FluCan an Australian organisation researching influenza so related to this virus.He still is a co investigator.


And QLD had 2 cases with an unknown source despite the border being closed.It didn't work.Sporadic cases will continue to occur even if all state borders were closed.
 

Vic

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Maybe you should do a little research.Prof Kelly is indeed medically trained and he was the Principal Investigator in the intial set up of FluCan an Australian organisation researching influenza so related to this virus.He still is a co investigator.


And QLD had 2 cases with an unknown source despite the border being closed.It didn't work.Sporadic cases will continue to occur even if all state borders were closed.
Again, clinical job = treating patients. You're confusing epidemiology and population surveillance with medical need and clinical treatment of individual patients. medical reason, clinical job seems to have little immediate bearing on being a good epidemiologist, aside from providing a knowledge base.

2 cases, from an unknown source that were not spread further because the borders were closed. Closing the borders is risk mitigation for the hazard of unknown cases that clearly still exists.
 

drron

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But Clinicians have little experience with the control of epidemics.An epidemiologist particularly one actively participating in research into Australian influenza epidemics has a lot more knowledge pertaining to this pandemic than most clinicians.In a much better position to comment on border closures in particular.
 

mannej

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As a Queenslander I am bemused by the heat Qld is receiving (with a lot of pressure from the Federal Government as well as assorted ministers within and outside Qld to "open up") yet all the other States with closed borders vis WA, SA, NT, Tasmania appear to be receiving no flak whatsoever. Does all of NSW and Victoria only come to Qld for a winter holiday?
Not sure what is being reported in QLD, but WA copping no flak? McGowan has been involved in a very public spit with some AFL media personalities over keeping the borders shut.
 

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