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Upgrades to LA - January 2008

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tinky

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Aug 2, 2006
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Hello all,

Well after many months my fiance and I are ready to lock in our honeymoon flights.

It looks like we will fly (unless a better offer comes in for Air NZ flights which we are waiting to hear back from our agent about):

Sydney - LA (QF 11)
LA - Las Vegas (QF codeshare I assume flying with AA)
Las Vegas - LA (QF codeshare I assume flying with AA)
LA - Papeete (QF codeshare flying Air Tahiti Nui)
Papeete - Sydney (QF codeshare flying Air Tahiti Nui)

Could anyone please advise what code the Sydney - LA flight will be entered into the system as by a travel agent? I understand that there is no chance of upgrading with points on any of the codeshare flights but I was hoping to try for the Sydney to LA leg. I logged on to Qantas and did a flight itinerary online using the exact same flight numbers the agent gave us and all the flights came up as Red E- Deals.

My understanding is that Red-Edeals aren't eligible to apply for upgrades to business. Is this correct? If this is the case, is there a way I can get booked under a different flight code? I am only a bronze member with Qantas club so know that my chances are slim anyways but I would like to be given the chance of an upgrade at least.

Hope that makes sense.

Thanks in advance for your answers/thoughts/suggestions.

:)
 

Dave Noble

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I would give QF a call and check what class you are booked in; If it is N,O or Q , then you are out of luck for an upgrade; if it is something else, then you can request the upgrade

Given that you havent booked and paid yet, it would be an easy task to ask the agent to book you into an eligable booking class; obviously it will likely cost more

Dave
 

tinky

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76
Dave Noble said:
I would give QF a call and check what class you are booked in; If it is N,O or Q , then you are out of luck for an upgrade; if it is something else, then you can request the upgrade

Given that you havent booked and paid yet, it would be an easy task to ask the agent to book you into an eligable booking class; obviously it will likely cost more

Dave
Thanks so much for the extremely fast response.

Just another couple of queries:

1) Any idea how much more it might cost to book us into an eligible class(or is that a how long is a piece of string sort of question?) :)

2) Also any recommended classes we should be booked into (in case the travel agent has no idea what classes are eligible?)

3) One more question, if we do book online with Qantas, i'm assuming there is no chance they will change the booking class if they class it as a Red E deal?
 

NM

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You will need to ask your TA which fare basis you have purchased. Generally the first letter of the fare basis is the booking code. No upgrades are available on N, O and Q fares.

If you are able to upgrade, it will cost you 72,000 QF FF points per person per sector.

Note that QF11 is the one flight that has a permanent blackout for awards. This is because it is the most popular flight for business people and they regularly sell all the premium cabin seats. So if departing on a busy day, say a Sunday or Monday, then your chances of an upgrade on QF11 are going to be slim.
 

Dave Noble

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tinky said:
1) Any idea how much more it might cost to book us into an eligible class(or is that a how long is a piece of string sort of question?) :)

2) Also any recommended classes we should be booked into (in case the travel agent has no idea what classes are eligible?)

3) One more question, if we do book online with Qantas, i'm assuming there is no chance they will change the booking class if they class it as a Red E deal?
(1) $100 or 2 I'd expect ; best ask your agent for that one :)

(2) Anything other than N, O or Q, whichever is cheapest

(3) I would avoid booking online if you are concerned to be ensure that you get a particular fare class

Dave
 

tinky

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76
NM said:
If you are able to upgrade, it will cost you 72,000 QF FF points per person per sector.

Note that QF11 is the one flight that has a permanent blackout for awards. This is because it is the most popular flight for business people and they regularly sell all the premium cabin seats. So if departing on a busy day, say a Sunday or Monday, then your chances of an upgrade on QF11 are going to be slim.
I love this site - you guys are so helpful, thank you

The 72,000 points per person is not a problem ,we were originally hoping to do all our honeymoon on points (been saving up for it) but realised that we can't get to Tahiti on oneworld airlines :(

Thanks for the note about QF11 being on permanent blackout for awards. We are looking at flying out from Sydney on Tuesday at 15.20 - do you think this helps our chances?
 

Dave Noble

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tinky said:
I love this site - you guys are so helpful, thank you

The 72,000 points per person is not a problem ,we were originally hoping to do all our honeymoon on points (been saving up for it) but realised that we can't get to Tahiti on oneworld airlines :(

Thanks for the note about QF11 being on permanent blackout for awards. We are looking at flying out from Sydney on Tuesday at 15.20 - do you think this helps our chances?
If you have the points , you could check availability for SYD-LAX in business as an award andthen purchase a cheap r/t LAX-LAS and see how much a one way ticket booked from TN would cost for LAX-PPT-SYD

It may not be much difference in price but would guarantee you business class to USA. The Air Tahiti NUI one way fare is approx $1722 plus tax from LAX-PPT-SYD (total approx $1860) and allows a stopover in PPT

Dave
 

Sequel

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Messages
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I had the same issue yesterday. Booking INT online gave Red e-deal as an option, but under the link to the fare rules it said it was eligable for points upgrade. I rung QF to check, and was told while it is confusing as under the T&C's it mentions red e-deals not being upgradeable, although it was an e-deal it was booked in V class so was eligable for upgrade with points. (In my case anyway SYD-HGK). In the end I used my TA anyway.
 

serfty

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Sequel said:
I had the same issue yesterday. Booking INT online gave Red e-deal as an option, but under the link to the fare rules it said it was eligable for points upgrade. I rung QF to check, and was told while it is confusing as under the T&C's it mentions red e-deals not being upgradeable, although it was an e-deal it was booked in V class so was eligable for upgrade with points. (In my case anyway SYD-HGK). In the end I used my TA anyway.
Forget the term "Red e-deal" as being a guide for upgrade eligibility for Qantas airfares.

It's what you see when you click the link that's important.

Note that by the T&C of QFF Upgrades, it's "Restricted Fare"s that are ineligible.

Here's the definition of a "Restricted Fare":
'Restricted Fare' means any Qantas fare ticketed in N, O or Q class, which includes some Qantas Red e-Deals;
So basically, if flying Qantas metal on a QF flight number in Economy booked under a fare code other than N, O and Q you may request a points upgrade; irrespective of what name the fare is advertised under.

(Note that "Sale Fares" transpacific seem to generally be ineligible; but you will not know for sure until you click the link prior to completing the booking)
 

tinky

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serfty said:
Forget the term "Red e-deal" as being a guide for upgrade eligibility for Qantas airfares.
I learn something new every day, thanks for the thorough explanation. I guess I got that thought into my head because all the flights i've flown Sydney-Perth-Sydney have always said I can't upgrade because it might be a:

Red E-Deal
Competition fare
etc. etc.
 

NM

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tinky said:
Thanks for the note about QF11 being on permanent blackout for awards. We are looking at flying out from Sydney on Tuesday at 15.20 - do you think this helps our chances?
Note that although QF11 is a blockout for award tickets, it is possible to upgrade with points. A Tuesday will certainly help your chances. But with Bronze status I think yuor chances are still very low. I suggest you follow Dave's advice and look for business class award seats (U class) to LAX and then Air Tahiti Nui one-way return.
 

tinky

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Aug 2, 2006
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NM said:
Note that although QF11 is a blockout for award tickets, it is possible to upgrade with points. A Tuesday will certainly help your chances. But with Bronze status I think yuor chances are still very low. I suggest you follow Dave's advice and look for business class award seats (U class) to LAX and then Air Tahiti Nui one-way return.
Well as suspected, there are no aware seats in business from Sydney - LA around the dates we are after. This might be because i'm only on bronze status.

So we will try and get our seats booked in a class which at least gets us the option to upgrade - better to be in with a chance at least.

Closer to the day of flying, is there anywhere I could look to see how many empty business class seats there are on that flight?
 

NM

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tinky said:
Well as suspected, there are no aware seats in business from Sydney - LA around the dates we are after. This might be because i'm only on bronze status.
All FF members, regardless of FF status, get the same award availability for business and first class awards. Its only economy class awards where Gold and Platinum members received access to more award seats.
tinky said:
Closer to the day of flying, is there anywhere I could look to see how many empty business class seats there are on that flight?
Its very hard to tell definitely how many seats are unsold. Tools like Expertflyer or KVS, or even Seatcounter (free) will show how many tickets QF is willing to sell on a specific route. This may not relate directly to the number of unsold seats, especially on a flight like QF107 that is a multi-sector flight where different availability can be maintained for each combination of sectors.

The seat map for the cabin can be seen from some of these tools, but again that only shows you which seats have not yet been allocated to a passenger. While this is a fair indication of unsold seats in the business class cabin, it is not completely accurate, and is very inaccurate for economy cabin.

If you plan to upgrade, get the request in as early as possible. Upgrade waitlists can be registered 90 days before departure.
 

Sequel

Member
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Aug 30, 2005
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Try these:

Class Availability Airline Flight Reservations

SeatCounter - The Booking Class Availability Machine

Use the dates you are flying, find your flight, and then if it says "J9 D9 C9 I9 Y9... XX XX XX" or something similar you are in with a chance, if it says "J0 D0 C0 I0 Y9... XX XX XX" then all the business class fares have been sold. The letters represent the booking classes for sale on the flight, and the number represents the nuber of seats left available at that fare calss. 9 is the maximum it will ever show (and what you are looking for in J, D etc). 0's are bad news for points upgrade (but good news for op-ups).
 

tinky

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NM said:
All FF members, regardless of FF status, get the same award availability for business and first class awards. Its only economy class awards where Gold and Platinum members received access to more award seats.
Thank you, that's good to know.

NM said:
If you plan to upgrade, get the request in as early as possible. Upgrade waitlists can be registered 90 days before departure.
Well we plan to fly on the 15th of Jan so the 90 days will be next Monday. On Monday, is my best bet to request the upgrade online or do I have to call Qantas?

My understanding is that the upgrades will get issues according to status first so platinum, gold, silver and bronze. If there are 2 bronze requests and one has requested before the other they will get it yeah? Either way I'm realistic about my chances as I am the bottom of the heap but worth a shot!
 

tinky

Intern
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Aug 2, 2006
Messages
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Sequel said:
Try these:

Class Availability Airline Flight Reservations

SeatCounter - The Booking Class Availability Machine

Use the dates you are flying, find your flight, and then if it says "J9 D9 C9 I9 Y9... XX XX XX" or something similar you are in with a chance, if it says "J0 D0 C0 I0 Y9... XX XX XX" then all the business class fares have been sold. The letters represent the booking classes for sale on the flight, and the number represents the nuber of seats left available at that fare calss. 9 is the maximum it will ever show (and what you are looking for in J, D etc). 0's are bad news for points upgrade (but good news for op-ups).
Thanks, now I finally know what you have all been talking about when you talk about the 9 after the numbers :p

So the only business classes are J, D, C and I?

At the moment they all say 9 but I know the flight is so far away that it means nothing.
 

Sequel

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Just request it online. I think the one request is for everyone on the booking. You are correct that who ever gets the request in first out of 2 NB gets the upgrade. And if you put your request in at T minus 90 days, and a WP puts a request in at T minus 25hrs, the WP will get the upgrade first.
 

tinky

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Sequel said:
Just request it online. I think the one request is for everyone on the booking. You are correct that who ever gets the request in first out of 2 NB gets the upgrade. And if you put your request in at T minus 90 days, and a WP puts a request in at T minus 25hrs, the WP will get the upgrade first.
How does it work if we pay for the economy flights and someone else puts in an upgrade request for us (who is on higher status)? Is that possible or does the upgrade have to come from the FF number that is attached to the booking?

Sorry about the 20 questions all but I'm like a sponge atm with all your info and tidbits :) I really appreciate it :)

And would anyone suggest any other flight numbers which would have a better chance of an upgrade than QF 11? I noticed there is also QF 107. We're aiming to stay in Las Vegas on the night of the 15th (their time) so we get our 4 nights before Tahiti, how we get there is not a big deal for us. We are actually going to be departing from Perth if that makes a difference (but figured we have to go via Sydney either way).
 

Sequel

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If you had asked me on Tues I would have said it was who ever puts in the request, however I read yesterday on the QF website that it works on whoever has the lowest status level out of the requester and the traveller.
 
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