Upcoming Qantas Frequent Flyer Changes

[docjames]

That is not what PCV means.


It's a per flight rating given to each PAX. This takes into account various facets in relation to the passenger. Such facets may include but are not necessarily limited to:

• booking class
• FF status
• PNR associations
• SSRs

What actual evidence do we have of this - when this was discussed in another thread recently, my take was that it's not actually confirmed to be real, but is hypothesised by members here at AFF :?:

 

[markis10]

What actual evidence do we have of this - when this was discussed in another thread recently, my take was that it's not actually confirmed to be real, but is hypothesised by members here at AFF :?:

The evidence is clear, some members get asked what their travel plans are for the next 12 months when failing to qualify, others have in the past been comp'd status without any comms whatsoever when at 20% of the renewal SC level, so clearly the system has the ability to look beyond the year to analyse what the value is of each customer in terms of lifetime or longer term revenue to QF! It makes sense, why would QF not have such a system? By the same token, how does QF decide to opup 5 pax when they have 5 oversold seats, by alphabetical order, by amount of hair they have, nope, again a rating system is used (and thank goodness because if they went on hair I would never get a go ).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I can see where you’re coming from, but even if you removed the WP’s in the F lounge flying JQ, you wouldn’t be able to get rid of the OneWorld Emeralds that also have access, and I’m sure there’s a large number of them on any given day.

Perhaps what you should be asking for is a bigger F lounge, like how Hong Kong has two…

I do agree with you about YUP's and status runs, however as noted in a few previous posts, a number of us turning right are doing so because the companies we work for have a 'cheapest fare' policy.

I've just qualified for WP with 1420 SC's earned, and still have 3 month's left of my qualifying year remaining.

To earn those 1420 SC's in 'Disc Y' I've had to do 172,517 miles over 58 flights (all on QF metal).

If all those flights had been booked in 'J' I would currently be sitting on 5680 SC's.


What benefits do I and all the other WP's who achieve WP by doing the miles in the back of the plane gain from this?

Yes - I can see the arguments on both of these - hadn't thought about the OW Emerald... although the MEL/SYD F lounges could be designated 'Private Lounges' similar to the Concorde Room.

Space is not really the issue here. I was in the Hong kong F lounge a couple of weeks ago and there were maybe 10 passengers in there. On boarding, 7 of those turned right.

Just the same as WPs want to be 'top of the heap' - as a paid F passenger I don't really want to share with non F passengers. Things like the quality of the champage, other spirits and food in the HK lounge could be significantly improved by restricting entry to F class only (and other top CIP pax like CL). I would much rather have had all those things, plus dedicated waiter service rather than having the money spent on doubling the size of the lounge.

If i fly economy, then I personally don't expect to have a champagne lifestyle... the business class lounge is fine (for me at least )

 

[Red Roo]

Just wanted to chime back in with a few points, as there have been almost 150 posts since my last post.

Firstly, I'd like to clarify the situation with Platinum, particular in the context of Platinum One. Platinum remains a oneworld Emerald tier, Platinum Frequent Flyers still retain access to the Qantas International First Lounge and the Domestic Business Lounge, plus associated benefits such as Preferred Seating. Out of interest, we created Domestic Business Lounges primarily for our Platinum Frequent Flyers, who account for the majority of customers in these lounges. Late last year, we spent significant money on improving these lounges further. On a side note, as a few have hinted, we are looking to improve Wi-Fi services in lounges.

In relation to Platinum One, we'd like to reiterate that these are new and additional benefits beyond what we offer to Platinums today. The Platinum One proposition is being refined, so we are not yet in a position to announce full details of the final package. Rest assured, we will when we can.

There have been some comments about the volume of Platinum One Members at 3600 Status credits. As you can understand, in the development of a new set of benefits, we need evaluate a number of scenarios, as a number of factors such as volumes, customer behaviour and implementation considerations impact the delivery of benefits. The volume of Platinum One Members will be firmer closer to launch, as flying patterns move from month to month and we consider factors such as a QF Status credit requirement. Suffice to say, whilst the eventual size of this group is commercially sensitive, we are talking about a select group of customers.

I understand that there is intrigue in Platinum One and that Members would like some indication of timings in relation to its introduction to assist with travel planning. At this point in time, I am able to advise an introduction of Q4 this year. Naturally we will provide further information in advance of its launch.

There's been a bit of discussion and analysis in regards to changes to the Loyalty bonus. The main point I'd note here is to also consider the impact of increased Cabin and Status bonuses on your total points earn. In general, rather than waiting for a Loyalty bonus to accumulate, the Cabin and Status bonuses impact points earn when you fly. Whilst the Platinum Status bonus remains at 100%, it's worth noting that, post feedback last year, we introduced an reward option for 50,000 points upon attaining 2,400 Status credits. This has been an extremely popular option, and the 50,000 points at 2,400 Status credits is well in excess of what would be earned in Loyalty bonuses under the previous system.

It's good to see that we already have examples here of whether the new bonuses are taking effect in Members' accounts since yesterday, which has gone to plan in accordance with the business case (as you could understand, business cases typically do not get revised in minutes). Unfortunately there was an error in communication; the bookings from 17 May requirement for Status and Cabin bonuses was unintended. Apologies for any confusion caused.

On a final note, thank you all for your feedback here. Since I first posted on QFF Ideas & Suggestions in October last year, we have received a very generous amount of feedback here and you can see some of the fruits of your input in the changes we have announced.

 

[james1]

As a Gold for 5 yrs - (mostly self funded) I am happy with the changes although I continue to be perplexed at any change which results in alienating WP flyers. It is just illogical.

I guess these changes are designed to encourage people like me (and PS) not to make the switch to Virgin - something I have considered as they expand and improve their new product. This is enough to keep me where I am for now.

 

[Flying Fox]

Firstly, thanks to Red Roo for his/her imput into this discussion and for providing a semi-direct line of input into the QF business and the QFF program. In my opinion this has been a great thing even if not everyone is a happy with the outcome.

Secondly, as SG I look forward to my additional points for flying with QF and only hope that I can get the rewards flights that I really want to spend them on.

The airline touts it as a new level of money-can't-buy pampering saved for the most frequent flyers . . .
​

With regards to the above quote from a published article that Danger found, isn't WP1 something anyone can buy simply by buying flights & flying enough to accumlate 3600 SCs?

Or have I missed something that its going to be an invite only club like CL?

 

[Danger]

Just wanted to chime back in with a few points, as there have been almost 150 posts since my last post.

Thanks for returning.

Firstly, I'd like to clarify the situation with Platinum, particular in the context of Platinum One. Platinum remains a oneworld Emerald tier, Platinum Frequent Flyers still retain access to the Qantas International First Lounge and the Domestic Business Lounge, plus associated benefits such as Preferred Seating.

In relation to Platinum One, we'd like to reiterate that these are new and additional benefits beyond what we offer to Platinums today.

Excellent. This has obviously been very much a point of concern for many people here.

There's been a bit of discussion and analysis in regards to changes to the Loyalty bonus. The main point I'd note here is to also consider the impact of increased Cabin and Status bonuses on your total points earn. In general, rather than waiting for a Loyalty bonus to accumulate, the Cabin and Status bonuses impact points earn when you fly. Whilst the Platinum Status bonus remains at 100%, it's worth noting that, post feedback last year, we introduced an reward option for 50,000 points upon attaining 2,400 Status credits. This has been an extremely popular option, and the 50,000 points at 2,400 Status credits is well in excess of what would be earned in Loyalty bonuses under the previous system.

I think that's a valid point and one I had overlooked (not atypical of me, unfortunately!).

 

[dajop]

Interesting set of changes. I haven't waded through the whole thread, but on the whole generally positive although I can understand why some platinums may feel unloved.

What I find surprising about the Platinum One tier is that it seems still to be entirely related to oneworld credits. This is a differentiation point compared to other programs, for example star alliance where many programs have an elite tier that relates to committment to the airline in addition to ( or instead of) the alliance (eg SQ PPS, Air NZ Gold Elite, UA etc). I guess though QF would have a good handle on those achieving 3600 SC's and I suspect it would be mainly committed QF F & J customers, and not of those that get there doing YUP fares in the US.

For me personally, it does not change my decision to use QF only in BFOD situations. In fact as a lifetime gold, the 75% bonus actually cements my decision as this reduces the points difference between gold and platinum. I am sure though I am not a target QF customer, not being based in Australia {and therefore limited opportunities to fly QF anyway}. Domestic J lounges have no value to me as very little domestic flying, and neither do the MEL/SYD F lounges as when I visit home spending time with friends/family is vastly more important than Flounging, so I minimise airport time.

But overall seem positive for many flyers. I also suspect that the extra 25% miles for gold and silver will come at very little cost to QF, as many in this category may be the golden triangle flyers flying routes <570 miles.

 

[Red Roo]

Excellent. This has obviously been very much a point of concern for many people here.

To be honest, this concern was one that we didn't anticipate in announcing these changes.

 

[Archphoto]

Airlines don't really make much money from people flying coach. So it doesn't make sense to 'reward' (spend money on) WPs who only fly coach.

So for those who fly in Y and have reached WP status through many more hours of flying should be penalised?

What makes a WP who flies J some much more important than one who flies Y?

I held WP for 3 years, flying it all Y; that's a lot of time in the air on International flights (and some domestic), that I loyally gave to QF over SG et al.

Consider this: If you only flew planes with the limited J & F classes full and economy (coach) hardly full at all, how much do you think those F & J tickets would end up costing? And how soon do you think those airlines would fall over??

Economy fliers are just as important - we put in more time to garner those SCs and should be acknowledged for our loyalty as much as any other FF.

The class of travel shouldn't matter - SCs are SCs, and a WP flying in economy is the same as a WP flying F - only the seat number differs.

 

[serfty]

...

There's been a bit of discussion and analysis in regards to changes to the Loyalty bonus. The main point I'd note here is to also consider the impact of increased Cabin and Status bonuses on your total points earn. In general, rather than waiting for a Loyalty bonus to accumulate, the Cabin and Status bonuses impact points earn when you fly. Whilst the Platinum Status bonus remains at 100%, it's worth noting that, post feedback last year, we introduced an reward option for 50,000 points upon attaining 2,400 Status credits. This has been an extremely popular option, and the 50,000 points at 2,400 Status credits is well in excess of what would be earned in Loyalty bonuses under the previous system.
...

Two points:

• There has been no increase in Status / Cabin bonus to offset any loss in Loyalty Bonus for Platinum members (especially those who don't buy premium seats).
• With the 50,000 point offer at 2400, a Platinum needs to decide between that or Gold Status for their Partner/Friend (or Limo vouchers). So in effect the 50,000 point offer does not offset the loss in relation to loyalty bonus for Platinum.

Yes, Platinums do indeed lose out of this in FF point earn. (e.g. Those who earn only 3050 SC's in a year and maintain Gold Status for their Partner).

 

[Alanslegal]

There's been a bit of discussion and analysis in regards to changes to the Loyalty bonus. The main point I'd note here is to also consider the impact of increased Cabin and Status bonuses on your total points earn. In general, rather than waiting for a Loyalty bonus to accumulate, the Cabin and Status bonuses impact points earn when you fly. Whilst the Platinum Status bonus remains at 100%, it's worth noting that, post feedback last year, we introduced an reward option for 50,000 points upon attaining 2,400 Status credits. This has been an extremely popular option, and the 50,000 points at 2,400 Status credits is well in excess of what would be earned in Loyalty bonuses under the previous system.

I appreciate your "interpretation" of the changes.

However say I fly 24 return flights (discount Y) from Sydney to Melbourne each membership year, these changes will mean that I will have a REDUCTION in benefit. Why? Those 48 flights with QF only earn me 480SC - which is not enough to reach the magical "Loyalty Bonus" threshold. Then gets wiped off, clean. No bonus frequent flyer points, "head straight to Zero, do not pass Go. Pre 1 December 2011, at least I would have got 5,000 points (per 450sc) and rolled over 30 sc for my next set of 48 flights with QF. Post

So what this means is QF is saying 48 flights with them is not being loyal ENOUGH.

It might be great to say "think about the status and cabin bonuses" to offset your loyalty bonus but if I did 48 short flights with QF .... and which I would say appears very loyal to QF, I would get diddly squat in return.

 

[OverrideServlet]

We are also working on improving the delivery of the basics, to provide you with a better experience with us.

Red Roo, are you able to give us any details on what improvements will be made in this area?

I'd really like to see an answer on this, even if that answer is that you can tell us anything at this stage.

 

[jamesatfish]

There have been some comments about the volume of Platinum One Members at 3600 Status credits. As you can understand, in the development of a new set of benefits, we need evaluate a number of scenarios, as a number of factors such as volumes, customer behaviour and implementation considerations impact the delivery of benefits. The volume of Platinum One Members will be firmer closer to launch, as flying patterns move from month to month and we consider factors such as a QF Status credit requirement. Suffice to say, whilst the eventual size of this group is commercially sensitive, we are talking about a select group of customers.

Red Roo - thanks for the updated information especially in regards to the current WP benefits continuing when the new Platinum One tier is being introduced.

Just to clarify however - your post (and the quotes from the Qantas execs posted elsewhere in this thread) suggest that you are targeting a specific number of people to be eligible for Platinum One. Does this mean that the 3600 SC cutoff may change closer to launch, or can we take this target as fixed?

I'm sitting here planning some trips for the rest of the year and I'd hate to book 3600 SCs worth of flying with QF / one world just to find out that the goalposts were raised to ensure QF meets a commercially viable target number of P1 members.

 

[oagroup]

Oagroup, can I suggest that the frustration which you clearly feel may be a little misdirected - it's not QF you should be unhappy with, it's your own company for its travel policy.

Your mate presumably works for a different company, which has a much more civilised travel policy.

If I were in your situation, I would feel quite unhappy about it as well - but you find yourself there primarily because of your company's policy, not QF's.

I would love to travel in business class but as the owner of the business and the one that sets the travel policy and pays the bills, the reality for some business operators is that its more about keeping costs in check and doing the right thing by the client than sitting up the pointy end. That’s the sacrifice you make sometimes in small business! My mate does work for a very large multi-national consulting firm so he doesn’t have to think twice about booking the business class seat and its no problems charging excessive travel costs on top massive fees - he laughs his head off when we talk about WP's and his status! 10 years ago when I was in corporate, I didn’t think twice either! I don’t want anything super spectacular from QF and my WP status but I think the distinction between SG and WP should be greater than it now is. End of the day forgot about all the added bonuses, I’d just be happy if someone gave me a smile when I checked in and when I boarded and someone said the simple words of “welcome back" at some stage!

 

[simongr]

Firstly, I'd like to clarify the situation with Platinum, particular in the context of Platinum One. Platinum remains a oneworld Emerald tier, Platinum Frequent Flyers still retain access to the Qantas International First Lounge and the Domestic Business Lounge, plus associated benefits such as Preferred Seating. Out of interest, we created Domestic Business Lounges primarily for our Platinum Frequent Flyers, who account for the majority of customers in these lounges. Late last year, we spent significant money on improving these lounges further. On a side note, as a few have hinted, we are looking to improve Wi-Fi services in lounges.

There's been a bit of discussion and analysis in regards to changes to the Loyalty bonus. The main point I'd note here is to also consider the impact of increased Cabin and Status bonuses on your total points earn. In general, rather than waiting for a Loyalty bonus to accumulate, the Cabin and Status bonuses impact points earn when you fly. Whilst the Platinum Status bonus remains at 100%, it's worth noting that, post feedback last year, we introduced an reward option for 50,000 points upon attaining 2,400 Status credits. This has been an extremely popular option, and the 50,000 points at 2,400 Status credits is well in excess of what would be earned in Loyalty bonuses under the previous system.

Just to come back again - as a Platinum flier I just don't feel the benefit still. Maybe I am just saying "what about me?" Like many Platinums I earn between 1200 and 2100 SCs and although the lounges have improved - the key thing is that no additional benefits have been given and in fact a key benefit (Partner Gold at 2100 SCs) has been taken away. No amount of spin can change that. QF have given this level of Platinum nothing and taken something.

 

[Red Roo]

There has been no increase in Status / Cabin bonus to offset any loss in Lyalty Bonus for Platinum members.

To be fair, we have increased the Premium Economy Cabin bonus from 10% to 25%, Business from 25% to 50% and First from 50% to 100%. The Cabin bonus applies to points earned at the time of flying, unlike the Loyalty bonus.

The relevance of this is, relative to other tiers, Platinum Frequent Flyers have a far higher incidence in premium cabins. Naturally, the situation will vary from Member to Member.

With the 50,000 point offer at 24000, a Platinum needs to decide between that or Gold Status for their Partner/Friend (or Limo vouchers). So in effect the 50,000 point off does not offset the loss in relation to loyalty bonus for Platinum.

We introduced alternate options to Partner Gold, as there was feedback from some Members indicating that they would share their Platinum tier benefits when travelling with their partner, so wanted alternate reward options. Points and valet vouchers were the two new options we added.

Whilst the 50,000 points option is one of three reward options, it's worth noting that it is the most popular option by far.

 

[Archphoto]

I thought about that when I posted, given I've never received the mythical AIR thing. I have no doubt there are subgroups within WPs now, and will be further subgroups within P1 and WP in the future.

I suspect that this is *very* true. I flew with a colleague numerous times, both as WP. The only difference - he *always* flew J and I flew -Y.

Guess who got the AIR magazine?? :mrgreen:

 

[Red Roo]

Red Roo - thanks for the updated information especially in regards to the current WP benefits continuing when the new Platinum One tier is being introduced.

Just to clarify however - your post (and the quotes from the Qantas execs posted elsewhere in this thread) suggest that you are targeting a specific number of people to be eligible for Platinum One. Does this mean that the 3600 SC cutoff may change closer to launch, or can we take this target as fixed?

I'm sitting here planning some trips for the rest of the year and I'd hate to book 3600 SCs worth of flying with QF / one world just to find out that the goalposts were raised to ensure QF meets a commercially viable target number of P1 members.

Understand your concern.

Just to clarify, 3600 Status credits is the threshold to entry, however we are evaluating a QF Status credits requirement as part of that.

 

[Red Roo]

Red Roo, are you able to give us any details on what improvements will be made in this area?

I'd really like to see an answer on this, even if that answer is that you can tell us anything at this stage.

There is work taking place behind the scenes to improve the customer experience and delivery is an area of focus.