United Airlines Delays/Cancellations

[Melburnian1]

Being stuck in a plane on the tarmac for hours is relatively uncommon in Australia, but was common in the United States with its different climatic conditions.

Today, two outbound United Airlines flights from Oz to the USA have been cancelled but it was unscheduled stops on the apron in CBR and BNE of incoming flights that drew passengers' ire:

[h=2]http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviation/united-airlines-passengers-stranded-in-brisbane-and-canberra-after-sydney-runway-closure-20141212-125v6j.html[/h]
It was apparently due to a SYD runway closure account debris:

Sydney Airport's third runway shut for 35 minutes due to reported debris

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Re: General United Airlines Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Really? One SYD runway closed for 35mins which results in 2 outbound Intl flts cancelled? Really?

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: General United Airlines Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

CruiserElite, unfortunately the closure occurred at a busy time as 0800 is one of SYD (and MEL) peak times, particularly on weekdays.

If the flights had been coming in at 1300, they may have been able to be accommodated.

While there is an hourly cap of aircraft movements of 80 at SYD, the other annoying stipulation ('annoying' from airlines' perspective, not local residents') is that in each quarter hour period, 20 movements is the limit. So you can have a situation where there might only be 70 movemnets in an hours from say 0900 to 0959 but because in one of the quarter hour periods, all 20 available slots were used, a plane has to go into a holding pattern to the south or north of SYD until the next quarter hour period starts.

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: General United Airlines Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

This News Ltd story goes into a lot more detail. Note UA passengers allowed off the plane and wandering about the Fairbairn air base side of the tarmac at CBR if I am not mistaken, as well as lining up for lunch from a food truck that presumably could not connect directly to the galley (and of course would not have had the necessary carts in which to load food and drinks). If a bit military like, I suppose the food truck may have been efficient:

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

All in all a most unusual occurrence.

Obviously UA pilots carry little more fuel. Is this partly due to the long sector and the winds meaning that even if they wanted to, not much more fuel (or no more) could be stored on the plane?

 

[jb747]

Re: General United Airlines Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

CruiserElite, unfortunately the closure occurred at a busy time as 0800 is one of SYD (and MEL) peak times, particularly on weekdays.

If the flights had been coming in at 1300, they may have been able to be accommodated.

While there is an hourly cap of aircraft movements of 80 at SYD, the other annoying stipulation ('annoying' from airlines' perspective, not local residents') is that in each quarter hour period, 20 movements is the limit. So you can have a situation where there might only be 70 movemnets in an hours from say 0900 to 0959 but because in one of the quarter hour periods, all 20 available slots were used, a plane has to go into a holding pattern to the south or north of SYD until the next quarter hour period starts.

So what? Delay a couple of departures. It's not as if they are fuel critical.

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: General United Airlines Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

jb747, so why did that not occur yesterday? If arrivals have priority, why wasn't every departure delayed yesterday to avoid flights having to divert away from SYD?

As well as the UA flights, one MEL - SYD QF flight was diverted to CBR and did not arrive SYD until after 1100.

While it may be a slightly different situiation in regard to the 'quarter hour movement cap', I was merely repeating what airline management has said about this little known further restriction being peeving.

 

[jb747]

Re: General United Airlines Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

jb747, so why did that not occur yesterday? If arrivals have priority, why wasn't every departure delayed yesterday to avoid flights having to divert away from SYD?

As well as the UA flights, one MEL - SYD flight was diverted to CBR and did not arrive SYD until after 1100.

While it may be a slightly different situiation in regard to the 'quarter hour movement cap', I was merely repeating what airline management has said about this little known further restriction being peeving.

Who knows? The entire thing is curious. I'm not sure what the weather was in Sydney at the time, but 5 of the 6 runways would be suitable in many conditions...at least as an alternative to a low fuel diversion.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Re: General United Airlines Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

First to admit I am a total layman with ZERO knowledge of the nuances of airport operations - but the cancellation of 2 intl flts due to a 30min closure of one runway is beyond my grasp.

If I heard that happened at Tashkent in Uzbekistan or Clark just out of Manila I would think YEP that's about right but SYD? Really?

Were these the only 2 flts cancelled due to this closure?

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: General United Airlines Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

jb747, many thanks. While this does not give a complete picture of yesterday's weather in SYD, it indicates that wind was from the SSE:

Latest Capital City Observations Sydney Airport

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: General United Airlines Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Were these the only 2 flts cancelled due to this closure?

CruiserElite, as I noted above, at least one QF flight was also diverted.

This was QF410 from MEL, due to depart at 0715. It pulled out at 0723, was in CBR from 0909 to 1010 and arrived SYD at 1109, 149 minutes late.

I just found out that QF505 from BNE was diverted to Newcastle (Port Stephens) as QF is now calling that airport on its website. This flight is timetabled out of BNE at 0600. It departed at 0614, spent from 0839 to 1000 in Newcastle and arrived Sydney at 1045, 130 minutes late.

This list is not exhaustive.

 

[jb747]

Re: General United Airlines Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

First to admit I am a total layman with ZERO knowledge of the nuances of airport operations - but the cancellation of 2 intl flts due to a 30min closure of one runway is beyond my grasp.

How much fuel do you think aircraft arriving from the USA have?

If I heard that happened at Tashkent in Uzbekistan or Clark just out of Manila I would think YEP that's about right but SYD? Really?

Actually, both of those are quite reasonable places to go.

Were these the only 2 flts cancelled due to this closure?

Flight cancellations and flight diversions are quite different animals, though one is often a consequence of the other. I presume that the United outbound flights were cancelled because they no longer had any crew to operate them...having sent those very same people to pick up the flights from Canberra and Brisbane, they would not have enough hours available to operate to the USA.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Re: General United Airlines Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

How much fuel do you think aircraft arriving from the USA have?

Little I would assume - but I did say I am a layman so to be totally accurate NFI.

Actually, both of those are quite reasonable places to go.

IMHO as a pax both airports are best avoided if at all possible. But my thrust was both countries sorta kinda have an amazing ability turn simple straightforward procedures into convoluted confusing and complicated procedures - nothing that happens in either country should surprise you.

Flight cancellations and flight diversions are quite different animals, though one is often a consequence of the other. I presume that the United outbound flights were cancelled because they no longer had any crew to operate them...having sent those very same people to pick up the flights from Canberra and Brisbane, they would not have enough hours available to operate to the USA.

Who knows? The entire thing is curious. I'm not sure what the weather was in Sydney at the time, but 5 of the 6 runways would be suitable in many conditions...at least as an alternative to a low fuel diversion.

So how many runways does SYD have? Again to a layman the closure of one runway for 30 mins leading to cancellation of 2 intl flts cause crew slotted for those flts have to scurry off to another airport cause one runway is closed for 30 mins - this layman is still finding it difficult to get my little mind around this.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Re: General United Airlines Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

<snip from another thread>

But seriously, what an embarrassing outcome for this country, especially our nations capital.

Could not agree more as Steffi would say - "How embarrassment!"

 

[clifford]

Re: General United Airlines Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

So how many runways does SYD have? Again to a layman the closure of one runway for 30 mins leading to cancellation of 2 intl flts cause crew slotted for those flts have to scurry off to another airport cause one runway is closed for 30 mins - this layman is still finding it difficult to get my little mind around this.

SYD has 3 runways, and, jokingly, the one with the alleged problems was the one that intl airlines (NZ excepted) are not allowed to use.

So, Australia, and its CAA, go to the top of the class for inconveniencing intl pax. But who cares? Not Australia.

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: General United Airlines Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

We ought to care, because apart from only about half of USA citizens resident in the USA having a passport - a lower percentage than Oz - this country's travellers are a fickle lot.

Bad publicity 'out of the blue' such as this works against Australia in convincing USA residents that 'the land down under' is worth what many believe is the 'torture' of a 14 hour flight, plus the effort to get to LAX, YVR or other west coast departure point.

The UK, rest of Europe, Caribbean and so on are far fewer flying hours away from New York, Chicago, Miami, Houston and so on than Australia.

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: General United Airlines Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Most unusually, UA98, the 0725 hours arrival from LAX into MEL and the rteurn 0915 hours MEL - LAX UA99 have been cancelled this morning (28 May.) How on earth would UA get booked passengers to LAX with loadings of other carriers on this route being at least quite high for much of the year?

 

[Deleted member 24491]

Re: General United Airlines Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Yes @Melburnian, I was on UA98 when it was cancelled in LAX earlier this week. We were ultimately re-routed onto UA839 to SYD and then QF421 to MEL. On arrival to SYD, were advised that our checked bags didn't make the flight (over 14 trolleys of checked bags, including ours, didn't make the flight). Our bags arrived 36 hours later.

Received the email from UA advising of a AUX power issue.

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: General United Airlines Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

UA840, the 0950 from SYD to LAX has been delayed from its normal 0950 hours departure to a forecast 1130 this morning (Saturday 12 September 2015).

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: General United Airlines Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

UA99, the 1025 from MEL to LAX is a pretty good performer timekeeping wise with FlightStats - Global Flight Tracker, Status Tracking and Airport Information giving it a rating of 3.9 out of 5. UA is not an airline that receives much publicity in Australia. A friend who flew recently to the USA commented that they didn't even consider UA (or DL) when I queried how much they paid on QF. They didn't seem aware that there was competition on the TransPacific routes out of east coast Oz.

However today it did not take off until 1132 and therefore is forecast to arrive at the LAX gate at 0734, 39 minutes late in the form of B789 N19951.

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: General United Airlines Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

UA99 had another delayed departure from MEL today, taking off at 1159, more than an hour late.