Trip planning DONE4

[NM]

Remember that with DONE4 fares you can waitlist for the flights you want. So have them confirm the available options and waitlist you for the other choices.

For fares such as these you really need to be able to speak directly to the booking agent and go through it segment by segment with them.

Thankfully our corporate travel centre is at least able to make the bookings reasonably accurately. I usually send them an email with it all broken out with date, flight number, departure city and time, arrival city and time etc.

 

[simongr]

Just spoke directly to them and they claimed that the reason I couldnt see the flights on line was because they were AA flights (even though they are QF metal on a AA codeshare) - strange how my BA flights show up...

Also adamant that you cant do the SYD-BNE-SYD-MEL-SYD because you cant return to your point of ticketing. I said just ticket as is and I will fix at the AA desk whilst travelling

 

[Dave Noble]

Just spoke directly to them and they claimed that the reason I couldnt see the flights on line was because they were AA flights (even though they are QF metal on a AA codeshare) - strange how my BA flights show up...

Also adamant that you cant do the SYD-BNE-SYD-MEL-SYD because you cant return to your point of ticketing. I said just ticket as is and I will fix at the AA desk whilst travelling

I would get back to them and insist that they do it since the rules of the xONEx does not prohibit it and tell them to read the fare rules and show where it is prohibited rather than paying USD125 for their incompetance

Dave

 

[NM]

Just spoke directly to them and they claimed that the reason I couldnt see the flights on line was because they were AA flights (even though they are QF metal on a AA codeshare) - strange how my BA flights show up...

QF and BA both use Amadeus for their GDS, and CheckMytrip.com us a view into the Amadeus reservation system. So it is usually for CheckMyTrip to show all QF and BA flights as well as directly connecting flights by other operators. These connecting flights are included as "information" segments so the Amadeus system know about your connections. So its not unusual to not see AA flights that are not direct connections when viewing through CheckMyTrip.com.

You will get a similar situation with QF and BA flights not showing through the Sabre view using VirtuallyThere.com unless the original itinerary was booked in Sabre.

It would be interesting to know which reservation system they used to make the booking. Sounds like it was not Amadeus. Could be Galileo, which is used by some TAs (I think Amex Travel used to use Galileo).

Also adamant that you cant do the SYD-BNE-SYD-MEL-SYD because you cant return to your point of ticketing. I said just ticket as is and I will fix at the AA desk whilst travelling

Ask them to show you the fare rule that says you can't to it, and have them actually confirm their understanding with the airlines. Make sure they are booking you on the DONE4 and not the DGLOB29 fare. The fare price is about the same, but the rules are different and the DGLOBxx fare does not allow you to continue beyond the point of origin. The DONEx fare rules do permit this.

 

[simongr]

Well they have "asked around the office" and you cant add the domestic sectors. It is a oneworld explorer business class fare per the initial quote - although nothing that said DONE4. I have asked for confirmation and deleted the domestic sectors as I just want to minimise my stress over the next few days before I go away on vacation.

In relation to their booking systems I am not sure what they use - its not AMADEUS as the 6 letter/digit reference that they give (the PNR ref on the quote) is not accepted by checkmytrip. I normally get the intinerary from QF and then use that to find the Amadeus ref. and go from there to checkmytrip. On my previous US-UK trip I am sure my flights were on there - even AA DFW-PIT and USA Air PIT-LGA. But that was some time ago.

Still frustrating that I cant access the BA site to choose a seat - or even check which seats I am allocated on the other flights - I will call QF tomorrow or Friday when I have more time and everything is ticketed so that it s sorted before I go to Thailand.

S

EDIT

Checking out this thread you quote a set of rules NM - what is the source of those rules? I tried a quick google but nothing came up except frequentflyer.com.au

Your point there is that there is no rule 4D - no restrictions on the travel though point of origin.

One question on that is the definition of a stopover. Lets assume i fly back to Oz in mid-Nov. I then spend a couple of months at home. I then fly to BNE for a week. I come back home and spend a month at home then fly to MEL for a week and finally back home. I am guessing that is 3 stopovers in SWP. If I wanted to pop to BNE or MEL I guess one of them would have to a max 24 trip?

 

[NM]

Well they have "asked around the office" and you cant add the domestic sectors. It is a oneworld explorer business class fare per the initial quote - although nothing that said DONE4. I have asked for confirmation and deleted the domestic sectors as I just want to minimise my stress over the next few days before I go away on vacation.

They may still be confusing the OneWorld Explorer (xONEx fare basis) with the OneWorld Global Explorer (xGLOBxx fare basis). Both have the words "OneWorld" and "Explorer" in the fare name.

I would use the following words with them: "I have looked through the current fare rules for the OneWorld Explorer fare and can see no reason why travel cannot continue beyond returning to the point of origin. Can you please show me the rule in the OneWorld Explorer STARFILE that does not not permit me to book the itinerary requested? Can you please confirm the fare bases for this ticket is DONE4?".

Let them know that you know what you are talking about and that they cannot just brush you off as a dumb traveller.

In relation to their booking systems I am not sure what they use - its not AMADEUS as the 6 letter/digit reference that they give (the PNR ref on the quote) is not accepted by checkmytrip. I normally get the intinerary from QF and then use that to find the Amadeus ref. and go from there to checkmytrip. On my previous US-UK trip I am sure my flights were on there - even AA DFW-PIT and USA Air PIT-LGA. But that was some time ago.

Try using the booking reference they have provided at this site: https://www.viewtrip.com/

Still frustrating that I cant access the BA site to choose a seat - or even check which seats I am allocated on the other flights - I will call QF tomorrow or Friday when I have more time and everything is ticketed so that it s sorted before I go to Thailand.

S

A call to Qantas or BA should be able to obtain the Amadeus booking reference that is needed. If they have entered your QF FF number, it should show under QF FF My Bookings page and that will reveal the Amadeus booking reference which can then be used for BA MMB.

 

[Dave Noble]

One question on that is the definition of a stopover. Lets assume i fly back to Oz in mid-Nov. I then spend a couple of months at home. I then fly to BNE for a week. I come back home and spend a month at home then fly to MEL for a week and finally back home. I am guessing that is 3 stopovers in SWP. If I wanted to pop to BNE or MEL I guess one of them would have to a max 24 trip?

That would indeed be 3 stops so you would need to limit one to a 24hr limit

I would also tell the agent that what they believe around the office is irrelevent, what matters is the fare rules and to verify with the airline on which they are plating

Dave

 

[simongr]

Try using the booking reference they have provided at this site: https://www.viewtrip.com/

That worked really well - thanks NM. It shows all the correct flights - I might use that rather than cehckmytrip in future - although doesnt show seat allocation at the moment

A call to Qantas or BA should be able to obtain the Amadeus booking reference that is needed. If they have entered your QF FF number, it should show under QF FF My Bookings page and that will reveal the Amadeus booking reference which can then be used for BA MMB.

I have the amadeus reference from the QF website - it just shows that BA have reached their preallocation limit. Mind you on that flight there are so few J seats that it wont make that big a deal.

I am going to give up on this intinerary with these guys and change at one of the ticketing desks at an airport (probably AKL when I have three hours to kill) and pay the US$125 - I wont have to pay it as work will so its no biggy.

 

[NM]

EDIT

Checking out this thread you quote a set of rules NM - what is the source of those rules? I tried a quick google but nothing came up except frequentflyer.com.au

Your point there is that there is no rule 4D - no restrictions on the travel though point of origin.

The fare rules exist as STARFILES on the GDS systems. That is the ultimate reference used by the airlines for parsing the rules. QF used to publish them on their Agents web site, but that now requires an agent code for access. People with the right access do post them to forums like FlyerTalk's OneWorld forum every now and then (usually when they are updated). I always keep a copy of the latest versions posted there.

PM me an email address and I will email you the latest version.

One question on that is the definition of a stopover. Lets assume i fly back to Oz in mid-Nov. I then spend a couple of months at home. I then fly to BNE for a week. I come back home and spend a month at home then fly to MEL for a week and finally back home. I am guessing that is 3 stopovers in SWP. If I wanted to pop to BNE or MEL I guess one of them would have to a max 24 trip?

That would be three stopovers. Once you return to Sydney and stay more than 24 hours, that is stopover number 1 in the continent of origin. You then only have one more stopover permitted. So if you go SYD-BNE and stay there for more than 24 hours, that is stopover number 2. You still have 3 remaining sectors, but no more stopovers. So you can fly anywhere permitted under the rules, but as soon as you are at one place for more than 24 hours that is the end of the journey (it does not have to end in SYD).

 

[simongr]

In shock news having checked on the viewtrip webiste they have in fact allocated my AA number - which might explain why I cant select my seat as I have no status as yet. After my flight on friday I might hit AA Plat which will give me status and I can recheck.

 

[serfty]

...One question on that is the definition of a stopover. Lets assume i fly back to Oz in mid-Nov. I then spend a couple of months at home. I then fly to BNE for a week. I come back home and spend a month at home then fly to MEL for a week and finally back home. I am guessing that is 3 stopovers in SWP. If I wanted to pop to BNE or MEL I guess one of them would have to a max 24 trip?

Yes .. A stopover is when your scheduled arrival at a port is more than 24 hours before your scheduled departure from that port.

Last year I landed at HKG at 10pm on a Friday and departed at 8pm the Saturday; this was a transit.

The rules are the same for all xONEx travel.

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

Rather than directing the TA to their copy of the star files I would ask them to check with the issuing airline.

When I wanted to change my DONE5 I discovered my TA somehow had an old copy of the rules and it was one of the changes that I wanted to use. Furthermore if the TA merely looks up their copy their is a risk that they will misinterpret in a way that you don't want.

If you know your facts then asking them to confirm with the ticketing airline should do the trick. As NM says, they are more likely to check as you ask if you show them your aren't uninformed.

 

[NM]

That worked really well - thanks NM. It shows all the correct flights - I might use that rather than cehckmytrip in future - although doesnt show seat allocation at the moment

So they are using Galileo as their booking system. At least now you will see the itinerary as they have booked it and not as the other GDS systems have interpreted the information pushed to them.

 

[simongr]

Bizarrely the BA site has my QF number and this site has my AA number.

One thing that I am thinking of is whether I will earn enough points or upgrades on AAdvantage to upgrade to first on either the LAX-JFK or

Its 25,000 points to go from J-F on JFK-LHR and 15,000 points LAX-JFK

Based on my non status at the moment and 4160 miles opening balance I think I will have miles at the following rates/amounts:

Points
Current - 4160
SYD-BKK (WT+) - 5161 - coughulative - 9321
BKK-SYD (WT+) - 9853 (qualify as Plat on this flight) - coughulative - 19174
SYD-AKL-LAX - 17968 - coughulative - 37142
LAX-JFK - 5562 - coughulative - 42704

That gives enough points at either LAX or JFK to upgrade - although not sure if I can upgrade LAX-JFK whilst at the airport in LAX. Given most of the points wont have registered as yet :shock: not sure its even remotely possible. The points should all be fine for the JFK-LHR flight and that might be a good flight to get the upgrade to F for that flight so that I can sleep in flat bed and be more awake for trip to Cyprus (noting that there is currently F4/J7/Y7 availability so likelihood of free upgrade is remote - and I wouldnt rely on that anyway).

Based on the mileage upgrades (4x500 upgrades per 10,000 miles flown as Plat) assuming that they can be pooled if you have multiple I dont think I will have enough upgrades based on miles flown before either flight. Assuming that they accrue from the flight where I get Plat the miles flown would be as follows:

BKK-SYD - 4680
SYD-AKL-LAX 7866 - coughulative - 12546
LAX-JFK - 2472 - coughulative - 15018

SO I would only have 4x500 mile upgrade credits - not enough for any upgrade.

I definitely think I will try for the F upgrade JFK-LHR using points if I can

 

[NM]

Bizarrely the BA site has my QF number and this site has my AA number.

I would suggest that the TA initially entered the itinerary using your QF FF number, and that was pushed through to Amadeus along with the initial reservations. They have then changed your FF number to the AA number and that change has not initiated a fresh push of the details to QF/BA.

One thing that I am thinking of is whether I will earn enough points or upgrades on AAdvantage to upgrade to first on either the LAX-JFK or

There are a few things you need to understand with AA upgrades:

• For a miles or evip upgrade the ticket must be issued on AA ticket stock. That is, it must have a ticket number beginning with 001 - even for e-tickets. This is becase for these upgrades AA actually confirms you into A class and to do that they change the booking class on the ticket. They can only do that if its an AA ticket. So if your ticket is issued through Qantas (i.e. it has a ticket number beginning with 081) then you will need to have AA re-issue the ticket. For a DONE4 that may cost you US$125. Now that may not be a problem if you want to add or change other sectors anyway and is a good reason to have the re-routing re-issue done by AA so they ticket is then issued on 001 ticket range.
• There is an "expedite" fee for upgrades requested between 7 and 20 days before departure incur a US$50 fee, while awards requested less than 7 days before departure incur a US$100 fee.

I chose not to use 25,000 miles to upgrade my trans-Atlantic segment on AA since it was going to cost be US$225 in fees (US$125 for DONE4 re-issue to 001 ticket stock, plus US$100 expedite fee). I was content to sit in J for the 10 hour daytime flight and save the miles and money for better use.

 

[simongr]

Thanks for that - I hadnt researched them as yet. Good to note the restrictions and change costs. Where would I find the ticket number? I am assuming that this will be an e-ticket as its less than 16 Sectors - if its not eticket I will need to harass them to get me paper (how quaint).

Given all of the hassles the TA has given me I really am tempted to letthem issue paper and then send them the fare rules and get them to add domestic and reissue (at no charge) - a little spiteful I know. AS I wont have to pay the US$125 - I think US$100 for an upgrade to F would be fine . GIven that I should earn 80K miles by the end of the year and maybe as many as 300K next year - I splash out on this trip

 

[Dave Noble]

Its 25,000 points to go from J-F on JFK-LHR and 15,000 points LAX-JFK

Based on my non status at the moment and 4160 miles opening balance I think I will have miles at the following rates/amounts:

Actually you have overestimated the cost

It is 25k or 1 eVIP to upgrade all the way from LAX-JFK-LHR and 15k for just the LAX-JFK sector

Dave

 

[NM]

Thanks for that - I hadnt researched them as yet. Good to note the restrictions and change costs. Where would I find the ticket number? I am assuming that this will be an e-ticket as its less than 16 Sectors - if its not eticket I will need to harass them to get me paper (how quaint).

The ticket number will be on the e-ticket receipt. Its the ticket number that is needed when you check-in since as you have already found out the booking reference number is only relevant to the system in which the booking was made (Galileo in your case) and not of any use to an airline checking you in for the flight.

There should be no reason for needing to issue a paper ticket for your itinerary unless there is some location restriction at LCA or PFO. The last time I needed a paper ticket for a DONE4 was about 18 months ago when I included HEL in the route and for some strange reason neither the BA or AU flights from HEL could be e-ticketed at that time. That has since changed.

Given all of the hassles the TA has given me I really am tempted to letthem issue paper and then send them the fare rules and get them to add domestic and reissue (at no charge) - a little spiteful I know. AS I wont have to pay the US$125 - I think US$100 for an upgrade to F would be fine . GIven that I should earn 80K miles by the end of the year and maybe as many as 300K next year - I splash out on this trip

Only you can determine if the cash plus miles is good value. For me, I would consider it for an overnight flight, but would save the cash and miles for a day-time flight.

 

[simongr]

Actually you have overestimated the cost

It is 25k or 1 eVIP to upgrade all the way from LAX-JFK-LHR and 15k for just the LAX-JFK sector

Dave

Sadly I am not EXP yet - so only getting the 500mile upgrades - yet

 

[Dave Noble]

Sadly I am not EXP yet - so only getting the 500mile upgrades - yet

You may not have eVIPs yet but if you are looking at doing a mileage upgrade from JFK-LHR, then you might as well also upgrade the LAX-JFK sector too since the 25k upgrade award will upgrade both the LAX-JFK and the JFK-LHR sectors to 1st class for you. Mentioning the eVIPs was for completeness

Dave