Travelling for Work [Ethics] Question

[Moody]

There's no "one size fits all" here. Early on in my career I was on public service conditions - 8:30 to 4:36 standard day with flexi-time and 101 rules for situations covering overtime, time-in-lieu, meals, etc.

But now things are more flexible. This can sometimes mean travelling for 24 hours and walking straight off the plane into a full day's agenda, or (like tomorrow) going to a Father's Day breakfast with my kids and turning up at work mid-morning.

In your particular scenario I would go into work if required, but if there was nothing urgent on I would work from home and get the post-trip washing done. As long as you tell the boss and they are cool with the arrangement then I can't see any big issue here.

 

[anat0l]

haydensydney, your last work trip only had you crossing two timezones for a total of 2 hours difference. Even for a non-FFer, that can hardly be classed as "multiple". *cough* soft *cough* :mrgreen: :mrgreen:



All jokes aside, given the criteria you've listed (which matches that of my workplace, except for the "meetings planned" bit), any of the four options, plus the option of "take a sickie / day off in lieu (if possible)", are fine, provided it's negotiated with your manager. Since your manager is "supportive", I'd like to think it unlikely that they would refuse a reasonable justification, unless you had another fire to put out the next day. Another option is turn up to work "as usual", but only enough to clear the big ticket items, then request to leave earlier. Or, turn up to work and take care of the brainless tasks, e.g. clearing email backlog, sorting receipts and filling expense report, and so on.

Naturally, our workplace attempts to schedule such trips so that the return flight is on a Friday, Saturday, or any other day otherwise preceding a non-work day. The main reasons why this wouldn't happen is if it is absolutely impossible on time schedule to do so, or one must go to work the day after coming back for whatever reason (presentation, meeting, submit a report, whatever).

Certainly at our workplace if you have just finished flying from outside Australia (except possibly New Zealand or PNG), it would not be completely unreasonable to honour a request not to turn up to work the next day unless it was absolutely necessary.

 

[lovestotravel]

1) Go to work at the normal time, even though you're tired as #%$@
2) Go to work a little later, though you're in work by 10
3) Get to work before lunchtime
4) Work from home

4
3
2
1

In that order

Airport at mid-night means you have worked til midnight..

Means you won't be home and in bed until about 1:30am....

 

[BAM1748]

Get up without using the alarm clock, that's the right time to head in.

Matt

 

[Katie]

I typically do #2; did that after two nights in PER last year, arriving back to BNE/home around midnight. I also did that after flying back from DME (via HKG, an overnight flight, followed by ~6hrs in HKG, then an afternoon/night flight) last year, my flight from HKG arrived at about 11pm, got to bed around 3am, but got woken up at an OK hour by a very excited, just turned 5 year old.
I think I had a normal day at the office that day. It was a Monday.
However, on some of my trips to the US where I've been away for 10-14 days, if I fly in on Friday morning, I typically don't go to work. I will check emails on my phone.

My manager is based overseas, so doesn't micromanage me on my hours. He also travels a fair bit, so seems to allow some latitude with these things.

 

[QF029]

As a general rule I won't travel in my own time, only work time. If they put you on the 4pm (or whatever time it is) out of Perth to Sydney, then I'd be expecting at least 6 hours time in lieu as a result (to be taken at an agreed time). If I am travelling in work time, then that's fine, they're paying you anyway.

What;s it like working in the public service?

 

[drewbles]

As a general rule I won't travel in my own time, only work time. If they put you on the 4pm (or whatever time it is) out of Perth to Sydney, then I'd be expecting at least 6 hours time in lieu as a result (to be taken at an agreed time). If I am travelling in work time, then that's fine, they're paying you anyway.

You'll never work for iiNet then. Their travel policy states all travel *must* be conducted during personal time. Now that's a stupid travel policy!

 

[Muzfly]

As a general rule I won't travel in my own time, only work time. If they put you on the 4pm (or whatever time it is) out of Perth to Sydney, then I'd be expecting at least 6 hours time in lieu as a result (to be taken at an agreed time). If I am travelling in work time, then that's fine, they're paying you anyway.

Glad you don't work for me.... With that sort of dogmatic attitude you'd not last too long at all. Well actually with that attitude you'd probably not start at. Its all about being flexible. You don't get the best out of an employee by running a sweat shop, and employees wont get the best out of their employers by adhering to "Work to Rule" conditions. In my organisation the OP would not be expected to be in the office but they would be expected to take any urgent work related calls which could not be held over until the following day.

 

[Hvr]

What;s it like working in the public service?

Damned hard and I reckon some people in the private sector would find it hard to work within the rules and be productive. And for all the jibes about how easy it is, for most people that is a real myth.

Re the OP's question I don't think it is so much an ethical matter but a Workplace Health and Safety matter. If you're excessively tired from extra work including travel then the company should require you to take the time off and even be proactive about doing so.

 

[Flashback]

Glad you don't work for me.... With that sort of dogmatic attitude you'd not last too long at all. Well actually with that attitude you'd probably not start at. Its all about being flexible. You don't get the best out of an employee by running a sweat shop, and employees wont get the best out of their employers by adhering to "Work to Rule" conditions. In my organisation the OP would not be expected to be in the office but they would be expected to take any urgent work related calls which could not be held over until the following day.

You've obviously never have jobs where you have special skills. When that's the case, you tend to be able to dictate more how you work. It's not to say that I don't travel in my own time when needed (and in fact have done so multiple times this year), however it's my preference to not do so. I work to live, not live to work. I suggest you all do the same.

FWIW, I work in the private sector. Always have, always will.

 

[TonyHancock]

This is pretty much my life. My situation is slightly different though because I'm supposed to be in charge!

If I get back at midnight or just before, or arrive on QF10 at 06:00 or thereabouts I will not be at work that day. I get home, shower, and get my carry on emptied etc.

I do however have my Blackberry on and respond to emails, check orders/accounts/bank etc, and am contactable by phone.

My staff operate in exactly the same manner. From my experience treating people fairly, and caring about their health and well being leads to mutual respect and loyalty. I'm sitting in my office and as a I write this three members of staff are working in their own time, without being asked, to finish jobs. (They'll be leaving early on a Friday and taking partners/family out for dinner at the company's expense in the near future.)

 

[Flashback]

Damned hard and I reckon some people in the private sector would find it hard to work within the rules and be productive. And for all the jibes about how easy it is, for most people that is a real myth.

Re the OP's question I don't think it is so much an ethical matter but a Workplace Health and Safety matter. If you're excessively tired from extra work including travel then the company should require you to take the time off and even be proactive about doing so.

Bingo! Working in the mining sector, that's why I have the stance that I do. If you do more than the hours you're paid to do, they see it as an OH&S issue and will not let you work until you've had the appropriate catch-up time off.

 

[Major]

My staff operate in exactly the same manner. From my experience treating people fairly, and caring about their health and well being leads to mutual respect and loyalty. I'm sitting in my office and as a I write this three members of staff are working in their own time, without being asked, to finish jobs. (They'll be leaving early on a Friday and taking partners/family out for dinner at the company's expense in the near future.)

Totally agree...it's called leadership and management

 

[The Rok]

Exactly,lead by example. That's why when used to arrive back into Perth from Melbourne @ 19:00 I would take the following day off...

 

[elbarto]

You'll never work for iiNet then. Their travel policy states all travel *must* be conducted during personal time. Now that's a stupid travel policy!

From what I've been lead to believe, AFP has a similar policy. Could be wrong though.

What;s it like working in the public service?

Too good. I think, in terms of allowances anyway. The agency where I work has a policy that allows for a rest day after travelling more than 15 hours.

 

[Shelf]

This is pretty much my life. My situation is slightly different though because I'm supposed to be in charge!

If I get back at midnight or just before, or arrive on QF10 at 06:00 or thereabouts I will not be at work that day. I get home, shower, and get my carry on emptied etc.

I do however have my Blackberry on and respond to emails, check orders/accounts/bank etc, and am contactable by phone.

My staff operate in exactly the same manner. From my experience treating people fairly, and caring about their health and well being leads to mutual respect and loyalty. I'm sitting in my office and as a I write this three members of staff are working in their own time, without being asked, to finish jobs. (They'll be leaving early on a Friday and taking partners/family out for dinner at the company's expense in the near future.)

Seems like good mgmt to me

 

[JohnK]

You'll never work for iiNet then. Their travel policy states all travel *must* be conducted during personal time. Now that's a stupid travel policy!

In that case they can keep the economy travel.

If your company needs you to work overseas then they will more than likely meet your compromise.

And for any managers out there if you have an employee that you send overseas and they work between 60-100 hours that week and travel in their own time with no time off in lieu then make sure you hang on to them.

I don't need to impress anyone and if you want me to travel then it will be on my terms and by the way I am not asking for a lot. Otherwise I am not interested in the travel.

 

[dajop]

Interesting discussion. To a certain degree some of the arrangements depend on who is the one commanding the travel. I usually (other than predetermined meetings) have the ability to organise my own travel and schedules, and usually I am probably set up tougher schedules for myself than a boss would! But the flexibility does work both ways. Different to someone telling what to do and when to do it. Sometimes only travelling on work time is not always the answer. For example I used to semi-regularly travel from northern NSW back to MEL. Choices were 7pm departure getting into into MEL at midnight (and go in late next morning) or stay there and depart 8am and get back in at 1pm. The latter option is basically all on work time, but actually offers less time at home with family/partner/dog/goldfish etc. With the first option, at least you can wake up with them next morning.

 

[drewbles]

In that case they can keep the economy travel.

If your company needs you to work overseas then they will more than likely meet your compromise.

And for any managers out there if you have an employee that you send overseas and they work between 60-100 hours that week and travel in their own time with no time off in lieu then make sure you hang on to them.

I don't need to impress anyone and if you want me to travel then it will be on my terms and by the way I am not asking for a lot. Otherwise I am not interested in the travel.

Oh. I forgot to mention. Economy only. And they have international travel. MEL to JNB(via PER or SYD) and AKL.

And then I run into Michael Malone, several times, in J on QF mid-week PER-SYD. Talk about one policy for the workers and another for those 'above' them.

 

[Moopere]

You've obviously never have jobs where you have special skills. When that's the case, you tend to be able to dictate more how you work. It's not to say that I don't travel in my own time when needed (and in fact have done so multiple times this year), however it's my preference to not do so. I work to live, not live to work. I suggest you all do the same.

FWIW, I work in the private sector. Always have, always will.

Yes, I agree completely. I don't even know if you need particularly 'special' skills either ... I don't, but employers don't treat me like a galley slave ... I have some moderate skills and there seems to be plenty of opportunities for reasonably skilled workers to simply move employer if expectations versus compensation become unfair.

I can imagine perhaps things are completely different in the unskilled labour market, but then, why all the flying around in said jobs??

For mine, when I'm on company business I expect compensation, vis-a-vis, payment or time in lieu at the very least. As J class company flights have dropped off post GFC the result seems to be employees travelling Y class taking the next day off, or the rest of the same day if an early flight along with travel the day before the out of office requirement.