Travel Insurance vs Health Insurance

[dajop]

Never travel without travel insurance

Internationally. I don't think I ever travelled domestically in Australia with travel insurance unless wanting to reduce car rental excess (and recently have found cheaper specific rental excess reduction insurance for that purpose)

Also internationally I only take out medical travel insurance coverage, not full travel insurance.

The basic minimum I believe is not to travel internationally without accident/emergency medical treatment and medical evacuation coverage.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well, we seem to have digressed from my original topic about Travel Insurance seeming to cost less than local private health insurance.

Following is the image of my benefits from what I purchased from Allianz through Defence Health. For those familiar with complimentary credit card Travel Insurance, how would you rate what you get compared to my purchased one - effectively less, effectively equivalent, or effectively better?
Regards,
Renato

ANZ Platinum is more or less equal, perhaps down in a couple of areas, and up in a couple of others.

ANZ has higher limits for death and total disability - $50,000 for each, compared to Defence Health which is $25,000.

But Defence Health has a $15,000 limit for personal items, compared to $12,000 for ANZ. Given you are (hopefully) more likely to lose an item of luggage rather than die, the Defence policy may have the edge!

There are some differences with 'return airfare' - while Defence says they will accommodate you only in the class of service you originally booked, the limit they will pay is $3000. ANZ will similarly only cover the class booked, but there is no upper limit. So if you have a points ticket in business class, ANZ wins if you need to buy a ticket home.

Perhaps one of the major differences is that ANZ covers you until age 80. Defence is only 75. But with a 'paid' insurance, it looks like pre-existing conditions (over and above the standard ones which are allowed such as diabetes) will be easier to cover.

 

[Pushka]

How does CC Insurance work with "minor" pre existing conditions like controlled high blood pressure with no other heart issues?

And while I am at it - would there be any policy that might cover for death of elderly parents where currently there condition is fine - not diagnosed as imminently terminal - other than their advanced age?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

How does CC Insurance work with "minor" pre existing conditions like controlled high blood pressure with no other heart issues?

And while I am at it - would there be any policy that might cover for death of elderly parents where currently there condition is fine - not diagnosed as imminently terminal - other than their advanced age?

Some CCs will cover up to age 80 - standard pre-existing included (no need to notify).

Otherwise there was discussion a while ago (another thread) for people over 80... some with very reasonable premiums (just a couple of hundred dollars for a couple of weeks, even for a trip to the USA).

The list of pre-existing ANZ will cover are:

• acne• allergies - such as allergic rhinitis, chronic rhinitis, hay fever, sinusitis, anaphylaxis,dermatitis, eczema, psoriasis, urticaria,food intolerance, latex allergy• anaemia - including iron deficiency anaemia, B12 deficiency, folate deficiency, pernicious anaemia• asthma - provided you are under 60 years of age and you have not required cortisone medication, except taken byinhaler or puffer, or hospitalisation for the past 12 months including as an outpatient.• bell’s palsy• benign breast cysts• bunions• carpal tunnel syndrome• cataracts• coeliac disease• congenital blindness/deafness• diabetes mellitus types 1 and 2 provided you were not diagnosed within the last 12 months and where you have no known cardiovascular, hypertensive, vascular disease, no related kidney, eye orneuropathy complications• ear grommets• epilepsy - you have been seizure free for the past 12 months or do not require more than 1 anti-seizure medication• goitre, hypothyroidism, Hashimotosdisease, Graves disease• gout• hiatus hernia/gastro-oesophageal reflux disease, Peptic ulcer disease• high blood pressure (Hypertension)- stable• high cholesterol (Hypercholesterolaemia)• high lipids (Hyperlipidaemia)• insulin resistance, impaired glucose tolerance• incontinence• menopause• migraines except where you have been hospitalised in the past 12 months• nocturnal cramps • osteoporosis - where there have been no fractures and you do not require more than 1 medication or suffer any back pain condition• plantar fasciitis• pregnancy related illness up to and including 26 weeks gestation; provided that there have been no complications inthis pregnancy or any previous pregnancy; or this pregnancy has notbeen assisted by artificial reproductive techniques, eg IVF• Raynaud’s disease• trigeminal neuralgia• trigger finger• routine screening tests where no underlying disease has been detected

 

[Renato1]

Best to check with your own credit card provider, but the coverage with my "free" credit card travel insurance against the "single comprehensive" column of your table above is as follows:

1.1 Unlimited
1.2 $1,250
1.3 $50,000
1.4 Not covered other than via "medical expenses"
1.5 $110/day based on actual incidental expenses incurred up to $13,000
1.6 $12,000
2.1 Unlimited
2.2 $5,000
3.1 Unlimited
3.2 $475
3.3 Unlimited
3.4 $6,000 (assuming this is the same as "Resumption of Journey")
3.5 Not stated as either an inclusion or exclusion
3.6 Not stated as either an inclusion or exclusion
3.7 Not stated as either an inclusion or exclusion
4.1 $16,000 (some sub-limits apply - e.g. $5,000 for a laptop)
4.2 $500
4.3 $600* (*4.3 & 4.4 have a combined limit of $600)
4.4 $600*
5.1 $2,750
6.1 $2.25 million

I would class my coverage as "effectively equivalent" assuming the Defence Health product also has a $200 excess, which I believe it does unless you pay extra to remove it. In my own personal experience, the only claims I've ever had to make are for rental car insurance excesses (so make sure the excess on your car rental agreement doesn't exceed your travel insurance coverage) and "travel service provider insolvency". It's nice to know that you have "unlimited" medical coverage in case you get sick or injured, but I think that is pretty much standard for all policies.

DISCLAIMER: All policies have lots of fine print with differing definitions and differing inclusions/exclusions so I make no representations as to whether the "free" travel insurance that I use will suit anybody's individual needs nor do I warrant the accuracy of the table I've produced above as terminology may be different and I may have made a transposition or interpretation error. I still think that people who buy travel insurance when they have perfectly adequate coverage via their credit card provider are silly.

Thanks for going to that considerable effort. I'd certainly agree with your conclusion about effectively equivalent - providing there isn't some weird clause that enables them to weasel out of paying.

Which Credit card are you using please?
Cheers,
Renato

 

[Renato1]

ANZ Platinum is more or less equal, perhaps down in a couple of areas, and up in a couple of others.

ANZ has higher limits for death and total disability - $50,000 for each, compared to Defence Health which is $25,000.

But Defence Health has a $15,000 limit for personal items, compared to $12,000 for ANZ. Given you are (hopefully) more likely to lose an item of luggage rather than die, the Defence policy may have the edge!

There are some differences with 'return airfare' - while Defence says they will accommodate you only in the class of service you originally booked, the limit they will pay is $3000. ANZ will similarly only cover the class booked, but there is no upper limit. So if you have a points ticket in business class, ANZ wins if you need to buy a ticket home.

Perhaps one of the major differences is that ANZ covers you until age 80. Defence is only 75. But with a 'paid' insurance, it looks like pre-existing conditions (over and above the standard ones which are allowed such as diabetes) will be easier to cover.

Thank you too for the considerable work you have done. I never travel expensively so that the limits on both are satisfactory. ANZ is actually my main bank, but I don't have a credit card with them. Certainly the age 80 factor will be an issue one day (hopefully).

I think this exercise suggests that I may have been a bit hasty knocking back the various platinum and a diamond card that were offered to me.

I'm still not sure how this works in my particular case, when my Travel Agent said to me on March 1st that she can book us into the flight at $1800 each providing I send her the money by March 4th (she made no mention of credit cards, and I didn't either). Given that two years ago I'd paid $2500 each for the same flight - I just sent the money to their bank account instantly.

Other considerations/ complications could include me paying for my wife with card, and buying Travel Insurance for me because of pre-existing conditions

And when they talk about paying for 10% of the trip, 90% of the trip or all of the trip with the card, what exactly are they talking about? Plane fares, car hire, accommodation and/or meals? If it's just paying the credit card surcharge on the plane fares, that would be okay - but if it includes car hire and accommodation that can start getting expensive with lousy exchange rates and foreign transaction fees (my biggest expense is car hire, where I typically spend just over $5000 because I insist on getting an automatic in Italy, which they are relatively rare).


Also, could one could pay with the ANZ card for part of the trip (e.g. with RyanAir) and with another card for the other part and have two Travel Insurances going?
Cheers,
Renato

 

[Pushka]

Ive read of the 80 years - but that is for travelling people. I'm thinking of those at home and related to the travellers should something happen while away. ie - sadly, death.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

And when they talk about paying for 10% of the trip, 90% of the trip or all of the trip with the card, what exactly are they talking about? Plane fares, car hire, accommodation and/or meals? If it's just paying the credit card surcharge on the plane fares, that would be okay - but if it includes car hire and accommodation that can start getting expensive with lousy exchange rates and foreign transaction fees (my biggest expense is car hire, where I typically spend just over $5000 because I insist on getting an automatic in Italy, which they are relatively rare).


Also, could one could pay with the ANZ card for part of the trip (e.g. with RyanAir) and with another card for the other part and have two Travel Insurances going?
Cheers,
Renato

This is where credit card insurance varies widely.

I have an ANZ platinum card - this requires $250 of spend in order to activate your cover. This can be for anything related to your trip. It can be the taxes on an award ticket, or a connecting domestic flight to catch an international award ticket. Or even just a pre-paid hotel for two of three nights.

Other cards require different spend... for example $500.

And then again there are ones which are quite restrictive... they require you to put the whole airfare on the card. Which might sound simple enough... except when it comes to award travel they might have a sneaky condition that says because your award ticket is paid with points, you haven't 'paid' for the ticket on your card.

Others again allow award travel, but only if you have used your credit card points to pay for the ticket. So if you bank with XYZ Bank, you are only covered if you use XYZ Bank Points to claim your award... not if you use Qantas points from your Qantas account.

My ANZ card is a simple platinum, basic entry card. It costs $79 a year. From there, all I need to do to activate cover is basically pay my award ticket taxes (to get $250 spend) and meet the other criteria (such as a return ticket to Australia).

However that card doesn't earn me any frequent flyer points. For me, that's worth it (and I have another card that can earn points anyway... the ANZ card just sits in my wallet for insurance purposes). If you want to earn points, you'd need to look at another ANZ platinum card product... which may cost you a lot more in an annual fee, but still has the basic $250 spend (which I think is the easiest and most generous of all cards).

Others can talk about other credit card products... I think Commonwealth Bank has a $500 spend?

Westpac was one of the ones which required total airfare spend on the card... or at least they were a few years ago when I last helped out a friend with their booking. They used Qantas points to get an award to America, but then found they weren't covered because the 'total cost of the airfare' wasn't on the card. The bank told them if they had used 'Altitude' points they would have been covered. (That may have changed now, I don't know.)

 

[Pushka]

Those sneaky conditions are what makes me take out a separate Insurance policy. For example my current trip is a mix of Qantas awards with taxes paid by Woolies card; SQ award flight through Westpac points, and accommodation and cruise purchased via 28 degrees card.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Those sneaky conditions are what makes me take out a separate Insurance policy. For example my current trip is a mix of Qantas awards with taxes paid by Woolies card; SQ award flight through Westpac points, and accommodation and cruise purchased via 28 degrees card.

Yes - but that comes down to your choice of credit card.

The underlying insurance per se is most likely a reasonably good product - more or less equal to anything you buy (potentially some differences in excess and excess waiver).

Eligibility (how to activate) CC insurance varies, and like buying miles or taking advantage of frequent flyer offers, there are easy ones and not so easy ones.

 

[Pushka]

Sure. But then you trade off points earning. Or higher cost etc. it just seems easier to buy a multi trip policy and be done with all the thinking.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Sure. But then you trade off points earning. Or higher cost etc. it just seems easier to buy a multi trip policy and be done with all the thinking.

again, comes down to use.

i pay $79 annual fee for ANZ, and put my three or four trips a year minimum spend on the card... which is around the $250 mark per trip (sometimes a bit more depending on the taxes). so I 'lose' 1000 points.

all the rest of the spend goes on cards that earn points.

like most things FF related, it comes down to how much time you want to spend. It would be 'easier' for most people to redeem qantas points for qantas awards, but we go to the effort to buy AA points or LM points because the savings are so substantial.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Ive read of the 80 years - but that is for travelling people. I'm thinking of those at home and related to the travellers should something happen while away. ie - sadly, death.

You'll need to check the TI's specific T&C. Friends were refused cancellation costs on their European trip by CC insurance when mother-in-law was diagnosed with heart condition and needed surgery meaning they had to reschedule trip. Was refused because she was over 65. So check.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

You'll need to check the TI's specific T&C. Friends were refused cancellation costs on their European trip by CC insurance when mother-in-law was diagnosed with heart condition and needed surgery meaning they had to reschedule trip. Was refused because she was over 65. So check.

ANZ CC insurance will not cover cancellation if your relative has a pre-existing condition (unless on the 'approved' list), however there doesn't appear to be any upper age limit for sudden illness.

 

[Renato1]

This is where credit card insurance varies widely.

I have an ANZ platinum card - this requires $250 of spend in order to activate your cover. This can be for anything related to your trip. It can be the taxes on an award ticket, or a connecting domestic flight to catch an international award ticket. Or even just a pre-paid hotel for two of three nights.

Other cards require different spend... for example $500.

And then again there are ones which are quite restrictive... they require you to put the whole airfare on the card. Which might sound simple enough... except when it comes to award travel they might have a sneaky condition that says because your award ticket is paid with points, you haven't 'paid' for the ticket on your card.

Others again allow award travel, but only if you have used your credit card points to pay for the ticket. So if you bank with XYZ Bank, you are only covered if you use XYZ Bank Points to claim your award... not if you use Qantas points from your Qantas account.

My ANZ card is a simple platinum, basic entry card. It costs $79 a year. From there, all I need to do to activate cover is basically pay my award ticket taxes (to get $250 spend) and meet the other criteria (such as a return ticket to Australia).

However that card doesn't earn me any frequent flyer points. For me, that's worth it (and I have another card that can earn points anyway... the ANZ card just sits in my wallet for insurance purposes). If you want to earn points, you'd need to look at another ANZ platinum card product... which may cost you a lot more in an annual fee, but still has the basic $250 spend (which I think is the easiest and most generous of all cards).

Others can talk about other credit card products... I think Commonwealth Bank has a $500 spend?

Westpac was one of the ones which required total airfare spend on the card... or at least they were a few years ago when I last helped out a friend with their booking. They used Qantas points to get an award to America, but then found they weren't covered because the 'total cost of the airfare' wasn't on the card. The bank told them if they had used 'Altitude' points they would have been covered. (That may have changed now, I don't know.)

Thank you very much again for that.

It won't help me on this trip because I've already paid for everything, but it raises interesting possibilities for the next trip.

If I was still squeamish about the credit card insurance, could I not say buy Emirates tickets with my CBA card and RyanAir tickets with the ANZ Platinum card and have two sets of travel insurance? If one proved difficult to claim from, then go to the other?

I've just told my wife about our discussions here - and she is very squeamish - even though she has the platinum card (I didn't get one because I couldn't be bothered notifying all the people who take money out of it).
Cheers,
Renato

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Thank you very much again for that.

It won't help me on this trip because I've already paid for everything, but it raises interesting possibilities for the next trip.

If I was still squeamish about the credit card insurance, could I not say buy Emirates tickets with my CBA card and RyanAir tickets with the ANZ Platinum card and have two sets of travel insurance? If one proved difficult to claim from, then go to the other?

I've just told my wife about our discussions here - and she is very squeamish - even though she has the platinum card (I didn't get one because I couldn't be bothered notifying all the people who take money out of it).
Cheers,
Renato

If you comply with the terms and conditions, and carefully read the policy, you have nothing to worry about.

The insurance market is highly regulated in Australia, and you have various avenues to pursue in the event a insurer says they will do something but they don't, or if they deny a claim on a spurious basis.

Unfortunately, many of the issues arise because people don't properly read the policy, and think they are covered for something they're not, or don't follow the proper procedures during the claims process.

If you have a valid claim, then you have a valid claim. It's as simple as that, and applies to CC insurances as equally as it does to ones you pay for.

If you have any questions about the policy, ANZ (and I guess other credit cards) are happy to discuss your personal circumstances, and clarify coverage.

 

[mooingchicken]

Yes you can be pay different things and be covered under both, as long as you meet both their requirements. Ive currently got this for an up comming trip both CBA and ANZ. You can not claim the same thing twice as that's fraud. they are both underwritten by zurich, which a lot are either by them or one of the other big names. So will be more a case of who has the better limit if i have to claim, as each policy differs slightly

 

[Renato1]

Yes you can be pay different things and be covered under both, as long as you meet both their requirements. Ive currently got this for an up comming trip both CBA and ANZ. You can not claim the same thing twice as that's fraud. they are both underwritten by zurich, which a lot are either by them or one of the other big names. So will be more a case of who has the better limit if i have to claim, as each policy differs slightly

Thanks.
I guess the trick is to get insurance from two different companies via cards.
There may be no extra benefit, but on the other hand it doesn't cost any more - so it can't hurt.
If one has to claim, toss a coin.
Cheers,
Renato

 

[RB]

Yes you can be pay different things and be covered under both, as long as you meet both their requirements. Ive currently got this for an up comming trip both CBA and ANZ. You can not claim the same thing twice as that's fraud. they are both underwritten by zurich, which a lot are either by them or one of the other big names. So will be more a case of who has the better limit if i have to claim, as each policy differs slightly

As with a lot of insurances there can be offsets. Not sure about now but there used to be conditions in private income protection insurance where it also took into account what you were entitled to under workers comp- no double dipping

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Thanks.
I guess the trick is to get insurance from two different companies via cards.
There may be no extra benefit, but on the other hand it doesn't cost any more - so it can't hurt.
If one has to claim, toss a coin.
Cheers,
Renato

The wording from Travel Insurance Direct is replicated in most policies and says the following regarding multiple insurances:

Other insurance

If any loss, damage or liability covered underthis policy is covered by another insurancepolicy, you must give us details. If you make aclaim under one insurance policy and you arepaid the full amount of your claim, you cannotmake a claim under the other policy. If youmake a claim under another insurance policyand you are not paid the full amount of yourclaim, we will make up the difference. We mayseek contribution from your other Insurer. Youmust give us any information we reasonablyask for to help us make a claim from your otherInsurer.

I don't know to what extent having more than one insurance might delay any payout as they sort it out between themselves as to who pays what.