Told to get J lost by AA. My first and last experience with the airline.

[RooFlyer]

Not its not irrelevant. You miss a flight: its only your problem. All depends on the condition of your OW tickets
Many people have forfeited fares because they did not check in on time: a non linked tickets:- the reason does not matter
Or claim on your travel insurance

Even the AA agent acknowledged that if I had a traffic accident on the way to the airport, and missed my flight, they would re-book me. The reason for refusal was that UA "caused" it, so I was now their problem (as if UA can control fog / air traffic control). The AA Manager in Australia also acknowledged that what the AA agent did was incorrect - I should have been re-booked.

So sorry folks, although it is tempting to blame the O Poster in these forums, in this case I know I was in the right to be aggrieved. Now, whether that does me any good here is another thing

 

[dfcatch]

Sorry if i didn't make it clear in the original post. I missed my AA flight because of FOG - the UA flight wasn't allowed to leave Reno because it couldn't land in SFO.

I wasn't mad at UA - weather delays are common. But as a J pax and OW Emerald, i didn't expect AA to tell me to get lost, go to UA.

No - you made it very clear - but I fear you're not understanding how it works..... For clarity let me explain.

FIRST - let me lay it out as I understand it...

1/ You booked a flight on United Airlines (UA) from Reno to San Francisco.

2/ You booked a flight with American Airlines (AA) flying on JAL metal from SFO-NRT.

3/ These flights were on separate tickets, separate bookings and you failed to show for your SFO-NRT flight.

Please correct me if I misunderstood.


NOW

1/ You failed to show for your SFO-NRT flight - simple as that. You need to consult the fare rules for your booking to see the rules that apply in the event of a no-show.

2/ Neither AA nor JAL are responsible for, nor the least interested in your UA flight from Reno to San Francisco as it was not booked as part of your AA booking (SFO-NRT). You could have been walking for all they care.

3/ The fact that your UA flight was delayed due to fog is irrelevant. It could have been on time and then you fell asleep in the Terminal - all the same. Unless your UA flight was booked on the same PNR as your onward flight to Narita - then it's irrelevant.

Your excuse that it was delayed by "fog" "act of god" is also irrelevant. Same usefulness as "the dog ate it", "my girlfriend kicked me out", "the car broke down".

4/ It sounds like JAL simply rebooked you as your booking fare rules probably allowed it.

5/ Sounds like poor customer service from AA call center only in the sense that they probably could/should have simply rebooked you as JAL did (according to the fare rules probably allowing this - nothing to do with fog or otherwise).

 

[RooFlyer]

<snip>
5/ Sounds like poor customer service from AA call center only in the sense that they probably could/should have simply rebooked you as JAL did (according to the fare rules probably allowing this - nothing to do with fog or otherwise).

Ker-ching. I WAS entitled to a re-book, as confirmed by everyone later. AA could have done the simple thing that JAL did; I don't remember the JAL people peering into the fare type / conditions. They just did it on the spot. Compare and contrast

<snip>
2/ Neither AA nor JAL are responsible for, nor the least interested in your UA flight from Reno to San Francisco as it was not booked as part of your AA booking (SFO-NRT). You could have been walking for all they care.

Sorry to be argumentative, but oh, but they were VERY interested. The sole reason for refusal by AA was that UA delivered me late. Therefore I could travel, but would have to be via UA.

 

[markis10]

Ker-ching. I WAS entitled to a re-book, as confirmed by everyone later. AA could have done the simple thing that JAL did; I don't remember the JAL people peering into the fare type / conditions. They just did it on the spot. Compare and contrast.

Maybe the first post could have simply said: AA refuse to rebooked me on the next flight (claimed it was the inbound operating flights fault booked on a separate ticket) when I missed a JAL operated flight in J ticketed by AA, JAL came to the rescue? If the fare rules said its OK so be it, otherwise anything else is just scoring a courtesy, not a right.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

You book flights on separate tickets on different airlines then it is solely you who is reponsible for making the connection.

If you have flexible ticket that allows a no-show with or without penalty then it is an entirely different issue and the long story about a UA flight and fog is irrelevant.

 

[RooFlyer]

Maybe the first post could have simply said: AA refuse to rebooked me on the next flight (claimed it was the inbound operating flights fault booked on a separate ticket) when I missed a JAL operated flight in J ticketed by AA, JAL came to the rescue? If the fare rules said its OK so be it, otherwise anything else is just scoring a courtesy, not a right.

OK, I'm verbose and probably didn't make clear the flexibility of the ticket, sorry, sorry. (but I did say 'J', indicating full tote, not D or Z (can't remember exactly what the letter was, but I nearly always go fully flexible)).

dazz81, the only reason the fog and UA is relevant was that was the reason AA gave to deny me re-booking. I knew it wasn't relevant, but thats what AA was arguing and that's one of my main whinges here.

 

[dfcatch]

Ker-ching. I WAS entitled to a re-book, as confirmed by everyone later. AA could have done the simple thing that JAL did; I don't remember the JAL people peering into the fare type / conditions. They just did it on the spot. Compare and contrast



Sorry to be argumentative, but oh, but they were VERY interested. The sole reason for refusal by AA was that UA delivered me late. Therefore I could travel, but would have to be via UA.

This was why you had problems with AA. The moment you mentioned the UA flight - the AAgent interpreted your situation as being on single PNR, (or a UA onward booking) and blamed the inbound carrier. UA then - rightly - advised you that your onward flight had nothing to do with them.

If you simply had have called AA and stated - "Sorry I missed my flight", then if the fare rules allow re-booking they would have done so. (If in fact the fare rules don't allow re-booking in the event of a no-show - then consider yourself INCREDIBLY lucky, as by rights you should still be sitting at SFO learning the hard way about separate bookings).

PS. Rooflyer no-one is having a go at you. But there is a lot of experience here and everyone above is simply trying to explain to you that separate bookings DO NOT provide any protection in the event of a mis-connect, regardless of cause.

Up to you if you want to learn from your close call - or simply feel better for having a misguided rant about your unfortunate situation (which many here have learned the hard way).

 

[RooFlyer]

This was why you had problems with AA. The moment you mentioned the UA flight - the AAgent interpreted your situation as being on single PNR, (or a UA onward booking) and blamed the inbound carrier. UA then - rightly - advised you that your onward flight had nothing to do with them.

If you simply had have called AA and stated - "Sorry I missed my flight", then if the fare rules allow re-booking they would have done so. (If in fact the fare rules don't allow re-booking in the event of a no-show - then consider yourself INCREDIBLY lucky, as by rights you should still be sitting at SFO learning the hard way about separate bookings).

<snip>

Thanks dfcatch, but i didn't know anything about the UA booking until the AA agent told me that she could see it in the system. Like I said, I still don't know where it came from.

i DID say 'sorry I missed my flight - but I did say because of the fog. It was the AA agent who fixated on the UA connection.

<snip>
PS. Rooflyer no-one is having a go at you. But there is a lot of experience here and everyone above is simply trying to explain to you that separate bookings DO NOT provide any protection in the event of a mis-connect, regardless of cause.

Up to you if you want to learn from your close call - or simply feel better for having a misguided rant about your unfortunate situation (which many here have learned the hard way).

Oh, don't worry about me cobber. Just because I'm relatively new here doen't mean I haven't been in the air for a few, like 30 years . Check my humble profile. I reckon I just might have more experience in the air - as opposed on the keyboard - than some of the helpful folk here! But I don't claim to know all the ins and out of the global airline system - which is why I've joined up here and at FT.

Yes, it was certainly a rant, and I felt better for it, thanks . But it wasn't so misguided - some of the respondents have been I fear. And the reason I have kept responding to the nay sayers was because I know I was in the right - as confirmed by AA themsleves when they examined the case.

 

[markis10]

OK, I'm verbose and probably didn't make clear the flexibility of the ticket, sorry, sorry. (but I did say 'J', indicating full tote, not D or Z (can't remember exactly what the letter was, but I nearly always go fully flexible)).

Saying J does not mean much in terms of flexibility, there is a common misunderstanding that J or F fares have good flexibility, in a lot of cases this is not the case, even with carriers like Qantas for instance where a Business Saver ex London will not allow changes or refunds. As always, its the actual fare rules that matter, not the class.

 

[serfty]

Ahh ... the old AA "Flat Tyre Rule".

Under that it does not matter why you missed the flight, as long as you make the time frame (2 hours?).

 

[moa999]

The UA flight is what surprises me...
Did AA/ UA respectively know about each others flights
- ie... had you added information segments, or did you through check interlined luggage.

I am surprised AA would book you on a UA flight as they would generally earn a lot less money on it, particularly as the reason you were late was not AAs fault.

Very different if AA flight was delayed by fog, so you missed the last AA flight, and then AA decides to book you on UA

 

[RooFlyer]

And yes, the Opener is walking away from the stumps for the night, waving to the crowd, possibly on his way to the airport for another flight.

Is that fog I see rolling in, Brian?

Thanks all, I learnt a bit.

 

[RooFlyer]

The UA flight is what surprises me...
Did AA/ UA respectively know about each others flights
- ie... had you added information segments, or did you through check interlined luggage.

I am surprised AA would book you on a UA flight as they would generally earn a lot less money on it, particularly as the reason you were late was not AAs fault.

Very different if AA flight was delayed by fog, so you missed the last AA flight, and then AA decides to book you on UA

Argh .. one last one .

I booked the Reno-SFO UA flight - I would have booked AA if it was available, as the rest of the journey was on OW. Bit AA wasn't a choice, so I did UA with about a 3 hour layover. Wish i'd have driven - its a nice drive.

I DIDN'T book the mystery UA thing between SFO and NRT. AA said they could see it when I talked to their agent, and when they told me, it was the first I knew of it. I don't think they created it either. Maybe the UA people in Reno put it in when they realised I would miss the AA flight; I don't know. But as UA said when I checked with them - it was just a 'reservation' (not sure if that was the technical term they used); there was no coupon or any way they could honour it.

 

[trooper]

Great that it worked out for the OP.. presumably because of an expensive SFO-NRT ticket with generous fare conditions.. (??) That sems to be what came out of the discussion....

I do hope however that the OP does take on board the explanations of just WHY an airline (any airline) CAN, and probably WILL tell a person to "go jump" if said person is travelling on separate tickets... without the protection of flexibility on those tickets..moreso the second!

Fog, whatever.. doesn't matter. Fail to make the second flight and "fault" is immaterial.

 

[ermen]

Seems like AA customer service made an error in not bookinging and did not confirm the fare rules. But if you knew that you had these rights under the fare rules, couldn't you just insist to the AA agent that fare rules allow rebooking and please go check? Also, if you were an experienced traveller (versus other experienced key board typers), why would you even bother calling UA knowing that their contract of carriage ended once they delivered you to SFO?

Anyway, if were me, I would probably go to the flight check in area to get them to sort it out for me in the first instance. Seems that airport agents have some degree of flexibility that the call centres do not have.

 

[RooFlyer]

Seems like AA customer service made an error in not bookinging and did not confirm the fare rules. But if you knew that you had these rights under the fare rules, couldn't you just insist to the AA agent that fare rules allow rebooking and please go check? Also, if you were an experienced traveller (versus other experienced key board typers), why would you even bother calling UA knowing that their contract of carriage ended once they delivered you to SFO?

Anyway, if were me, I would probably go to the flight check in area to get them to sort it out for me in the first instance. Seems that airport agents have some degree of flexibility that the call centres do not have.

Hi ermen

Believe me, I did try to insist to the AA agent that she should check the rules and re-book me. I really tried! But she was adamant - UA caused the problem, so I was their problem (charming turn of phrase, she had)! And yes, in hindsight, I should have gone to the AA desk - but as they didn't have one in the international terminal, and as it seemed a simple issue at first, I made the call from the phone to their 'premium' area rather than going out through security (I think - I wasn't sure at the time) and into unknown territory. Especially as my bags were being returned to the JAL counter and I had to collect them there before they shut up shop.

I had to see UA - I had no choice! The AA agent washed her hands of me and said full stop - you are booked on UA - see them. The main thing I wanted - and got - UA to do was to delete the 'booking' on their system that the AA agent was using as an excuse not to take me. Unfortunately it didn't work.

Hi trooper ... yes, all on board, but I sorta knew it re separate tix. I regret not making the fact that it was a fully flexible fare clearer up front; might have saved me some haranging

But still - as I wanted to make the point - irrespective of rights, entitlements, fault etc I thought it was nice of the JAL folk to instantly and without hesitation book me on the next day's flight (same metal) , as opposed to the wringer I went through with AA. Guess who gets my business where there's a choice, in spite of JAL's fuel charges.

 

[TonyHancock]

S Also, if you were an experienced traveller (versus other experienced key board typers), why would you even bother calling UA knowing that their contract of carriage ended once they delivered you to SFO?

Call me gullible but I have to say I would have called UA if AA advised me too. I guess I'm probably more of a "key board typer" though compared to experienced travellers like your good self.

The thing I take from the original post is that JAL's customer service appeared to be somewhat better than AA's. Something to store at the back of my mind, along with many other analogies, to help in the airline selection process on my occasional travels.

 

[HarryB]

I thought it was nice of the JAL folk to instantly and without hesitation book me on the next day's flight (same metal) , as opposed to the wringer I went through with AA. Guess who gets my business where there's a choice, in spite of JAL's fuel charges.

This is what I read into the original post ... It's all about the quality of the service. Maybe under the terms of the tickets the OP is on his own but in that situation what do AA have to lose by bending the rules as JAL did? Obviously the flight the next day wasn't full and the OP wasn't expecting accommodation for the night or meal vouchers etc, he was after some help and got none from AA. No one like having the book thrown in their face and look where it got AA. They have lost a customer and if it happened to the OP it will be happening to others and that's the sort of cough service you expect from LCC airlines.

 

[Sprucegoose]

In simpe terms you want protection use one PNR or use flexible tickets for foggy areas.

 

[ftm]

In simpe terms you want protection use one PNR or use flexible tickets for foggy areas.

One PNR wouldn't have helped. It needs to be one ticket.

There can be multiple tickets within the same PNR, but it is how the segments are ticketed that determines what happens for instances of missed connections.