This question just HAS TO BE ASKED...
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ksthommo
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I would and will go to Bali for holidays anytime. This has been a beat up by the media about this girl. Where were they during the first few months of her being arrested? No where, they have made heaps of dollars out of this, just like someone else tried with the boogie board bag full of dope.
In all honesty, I don't care if Corby is jailed, released or whatever.
We don't know the facts in the case. We don't know if she smuggled the drugs over, was used as a mule or was set up by someone. A person who is guilty rarely goes "Yep it was me. Come on shoot me for drug trafficking". A person who realises that they are facing the death sentance or life imprisonment very concerned over their actions if they were guilty once they realised the consequences.
I have issues with the concept of trafficing marijuana from Brisbane to Sydney via planes. Pot is not that hard to grow with hydroponics etc. It is hardly a drug that is difficult to get. Cocaine and various other "hard" drugs I could imagine being trafficed but not pot.
I believe that trafficing pot from Syd to Bali is more likely. However there would need to be someone at both ends involved and good communication to ensure the drugs got picked up at the end.
We aren't involved in the case except through little snippets provided to us by the media who are biased anyways. We will never know if she admitted guilt to owning the pot, whether she handled the pot originally or whether it was in the bag when it was checked in to Brisbane airport staff. We also don't know if she knew anything about the drugs. One would expect that you would notice a bag bulging when you pick it up from the luggage area or even notice the weight difference.
Yes I would go to Bali / Indonesia. Their legal system may have differences from ours, but that is their culture and I respect that. This case is not going to change that for me.
Yes I lock my bags up more securely now than before - but that is just a sign of the times - not Corby's innocence or guilt.
We don't know the facts in the case. We don't know if she smuggled the drugs over, was used as a mule or was set up by someone. A person who is guilty rarely goes "Yep it was me. Come on shoot me for drug trafficking". A person who realises that they are facing the death sentance or life imprisonment very concerned over their actions if they were guilty once they realised the consequences.
I have issues with the concept of trafficing marijuana from Brisbane to Sydney via planes. Pot is not that hard to grow with hydroponics etc. It is hardly a drug that is difficult to get. Cocaine and various other "hard" drugs I could imagine being trafficed but not pot.
I believe that trafficing pot from Syd to Bali is more likely. However there would need to be someone at both ends involved and good communication to ensure the drugs got picked up at the end.
We aren't involved in the case except through little snippets provided to us by the media who are biased anyways. We will never know if she admitted guilt to owning the pot, whether she handled the pot originally or whether it was in the bag when it was checked in to Brisbane airport staff. We also don't know if she knew anything about the drugs. One would expect that you would notice a bag bulging when you pick it up from the luggage area or even notice the weight difference.
Yes I would go to Bali / Indonesia. Their legal system may have differences from ours, but that is their culture and I respect that. This case is not going to change that for me.
Yes I lock my bags up more securely now than before - but that is just a sign of the times - not Corby's innocence or guilt.
Come on, surely "the facts" are now known?
What the Indonesians don't have in their legal system, is the principle of 'the balance of probabilities'.
If the case was held in Australia, she'd get off on 'the balance of probabilities' that the evidence presented was in her favour.
It seems most people had 'some doubt' about her story, but I see it as a '60 /40' or '70/30' in her favour. That, would get her off on the balance of probabilities in the Australian system.
To say you 'trust' the Indonesian legal system to do the 'right thing' is a little nieve... isn't it???
Any of us could wind up like Corby... you could be travelling with your wife and kids.... would you trust Indonesian Customs to search your kid's bags.... what if what happened to Corby, happened to one of your family?
Don't think it can't happen.....
regards,
What the Indonesians don't have in their legal system, is the principle of 'the balance of probabilities'.
If the case was held in Australia, she'd get off on 'the balance of probabilities' that the evidence presented was in her favour.
It seems most people had 'some doubt' about her story, but I see it as a '60 /40' or '70/30' in her favour. That, would get her off on the balance of probabilities in the Australian system.
To say you 'trust' the Indonesian legal system to do the 'right thing' is a little nieve... isn't it???
Any of us could wind up like Corby... you could be travelling with your wife and kids.... would you trust Indonesian Customs to search your kid's bags.... what if what happened to Corby, happened to one of your family?
Don't think it can't happen.....
regards,
S
shillard
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Mal said:
Thanks for confirming my suspiscions that you have SFA experience with the Indonesian legal system, police, or society in general.
You don't have to go far to find a more corrupt and base nation (just hop across the water to Malaysia), and Corby is guily of only one thing:
Not having the street smarts to say to the customs driods who fingered her for the dope-smuggling:
"Ok, clearly I didn't lock my bags, very silly of me. What sort of donation do I need to make to clear this up?"
shillard said:
If she had followed the rules of the Indonesian legal system and paid the required bribe straight after the crime then she would have walked away free, they may have even let her keep the drugs if she had smiled. The bribes that you have to pay are so small since the wages they earn are very low.
There's that too...
However, if there is doubt, as in Corby's case, then the presiding judge can make a decision on the balance of probabilities. That is to say, given all the evidence the defense put forward, that she PROBABLY didn't do it.
OK, I'm not a lawyer, but that's a principle I understand is built into the Australian legal system. (based on British law, of course)
One might say, that the prosecution should have to prove BEYOND ALL REASONABLE DOUBT that she did do it! (did that happen?)
regards,
However, if there is doubt, as in Corby's case, then the presiding judge can make a decision on the balance of probabilities. That is to say, given all the evidence the defense put forward, that she PROBABLY didn't do it.
OK, I'm not a lawyer, but that's a principle I understand is built into the Australian legal system. (based on British law, of course)
One might say, that the prosecution should have to prove BEYOND ALL REASONABLE DOUBT that she did do it! (did that happen?)
regards,
ksthommo
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She was found guilty so be it. Who is going to support the Bali 9? No one because they are on video getting sprung. Pity there wasn't video of Corby getting caught out. If you were caught anywhere with drugs you would go the party line of "there not mine".
The judge is so proud of not aquitting anyone after 500 cases and I don't hink he wants to break that record. Maybe he knows Corby is not guilty, but he just can't set her free. so instead he gave a lighter sentence. WHo knows?
On the other hand, we never heard the truth in its entirty, only what media wants us to hear and know. so lots of uncertainty to make a call IMHO.
On the other hand, we never heard the truth in its entirty, only what media wants us to hear and know. so lots of uncertainty to make a call IMHO.
Advertised holidays?
Regardless of what percentage of the travelling public will continue to travel to Bali for a holiday, a careful look through the Sunday Age revealed 0% of all advertised packages offered a Bali holiday.
Clearly Australia's Travel Agents will be lying low on the Bali option for a little while.
Regardless of what percentage of the travelling public will continue to travel to Bali for a holiday, a careful look through the Sunday Age revealed 0% of all advertised packages offered a Bali holiday.
Clearly Australia's Travel Agents will be lying low on the Bali option for a little while.
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I've heard that the DFAT has put a travel warning for all travel to Bali. (may have already been in place). And after speaking with a travel agent friend, all advertising, including in store, for Bali has been withdrawn. So I think there will be a significant drop in tourism to the area from Australia over the next few years.
While I think I'm the only Australian that believes she was guilty, the trial judge had no choice but to convict based on the evidence. Under Indonesian (Dutch) law, the defendant is presumed guilty, while under British law, the defendant is presumed innocent during the trial. Given that the defence based its case solely on the words of;
a) a convicted drug dealer who thought he knew something like this was happening
b) a federal police officer who was dishonourably discharged who too was investigating something similar to this while on the force and
c) a ex-flight attendant who admitted that FA sometimes tampered with peoples luggage (!)
any verdict of not guilty would bring the court into disrepute. The precedent created would ultimately result in all drug smuggling cases basing their case on events similar to Corby's - blaming the baggage handlers in their home country.
It's a sad story, but from the outset this was the only verdict that was going to be handed down. Given past convictions in Indonesia, Corby was lucky that the Australian government was able to influence the judge to give her 20 years and not life.
While I think I'm the only Australian that believes she was guilty, the trial judge had no choice but to convict based on the evidence. Under Indonesian (Dutch) law, the defendant is presumed guilty, while under British law, the defendant is presumed innocent during the trial. Given that the defence based its case solely on the words of;
a) a convicted drug dealer who thought he knew something like this was happening
b) a federal police officer who was dishonourably discharged who too was investigating something similar to this while on the force and
c) a ex-flight attendant who admitted that FA sometimes tampered with peoples luggage (!)
any verdict of not guilty would bring the court into disrepute. The precedent created would ultimately result in all drug smuggling cases basing their case on events similar to Corby's - blaming the baggage handlers in their home country.
It's a sad story, but from the outset this was the only verdict that was going to be handed down. Given past convictions in Indonesia, Corby was lucky that the Australian government was able to influence the judge to give her 20 years and not life.
oz_mark
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johnsmith said:
I think that this was made difficult by the media interest in the case. If it had been kept out of the media, then perhaps alternative courses would have been easier to arrange. Not going to happen if you have the worlds media putting you under the spotlight.
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I must say I found the Corby case interesting and I have been through Denpasar airport many times. If you go behind the blue eyes, big boobs and the media circus however, I think there is a lot more too it.
I don't know if Corby is innocent or guilty. Only she knows that. I think on the evidence the court probably came up with the right verdict. I was surprised in fact they did not give her a life sentence. But lets dig a little deeper. Both brother and father have been convicted of drug offences. Brother "disappeared" very quickly from the airport when sister was arrested. Would it be presumptuous of me to suggest her brother put the drugs in the boogy board bag ? That he was going to sell the drugs in Bali ? Or am I just barking up the wrong tree ?
Somebody suggested in this forum that she should have offered the customs people a few dollars. If Corby had Asian travel smarts, she would have known for a few hundred dollars this could probably all have gone away. Instead, her, her family and her lawyer turned this into a media circus. From Corby's perspective, this was the WORST thing that could happen. The Indonesian police and courts were never going to let her go once the media got involved. What I find amusing is that our media here are so stupid they actually thought they could help her. In fact, they did the opposite.
I read in The Melbourne Age today we should boycott Qantas over this. I am certainly not a Qantas fan, but it was my understanding that Qantas baggage people handle ALL international baggage in Sydney - not just Qantas flights ? (Somebody please correct me if I am wrong). Should should we therefore boycott ALL flights through Sydney International Airport ? Bit silly I thought. But it is true Qantas should keep better records of luggage on flights. Maybe this would have provided Corby with evidence to support her claims - maybe it would not. Who knows.
But whether you go on holiday to Bali is another story. Bali is part of a Muslim country. While the Balinese are predominately Hindu, the businesses and hotels in Bali are predominately owned by the Suharto generals in Jakarta. And most of these guys are no sweethearts. So if you want to support these kind of people, sure spend your tourist dollars in Bali. If you think providing income to corrupt public officials, many of whom are supporting and assisting JI terrorists, is not such a good idea, then spend your tourist dollar elsewhere. Maybe in Malaysia, the centre of terrorism is Asia, is a good place to go ??
Get serious. Indonesia is corrupt countries. While they put on a pretty face for tourists and the Balinese certainly want our money, do you think they really want us decadent Westerners in their country ? Do you really believe the Bali bombers didn't have help from the Indonesian military ? Nothing moves in Indonesia without the approval of the military.
Personally, I would go to Thailand any day. And that is not to say Thailand is not corrupt too. But, the people are much nicer, the hotels better and they are fighting the terrorists supported by Malaysia in the south of their country. If I want to spend my tourist dollar in Asia, that's is certainly where I would go
I don't know if Corby is innocent or guilty. Only she knows that. I think on the evidence the court probably came up with the right verdict. I was surprised in fact they did not give her a life sentence. But lets dig a little deeper. Both brother and father have been convicted of drug offences. Brother "disappeared" very quickly from the airport when sister was arrested. Would it be presumptuous of me to suggest her brother put the drugs in the boogy board bag ? That he was going to sell the drugs in Bali ? Or am I just barking up the wrong tree ?
Somebody suggested in this forum that she should have offered the customs people a few dollars. If Corby had Asian travel smarts, she would have known for a few hundred dollars this could probably all have gone away. Instead, her, her family and her lawyer turned this into a media circus. From Corby's perspective, this was the WORST thing that could happen. The Indonesian police and courts were never going to let her go once the media got involved. What I find amusing is that our media here are so stupid they actually thought they could help her. In fact, they did the opposite.
I read in The Melbourne Age today we should boycott Qantas over this. I am certainly not a Qantas fan, but it was my understanding that Qantas baggage people handle ALL international baggage in Sydney - not just Qantas flights ? (Somebody please correct me if I am wrong). Should should we therefore boycott ALL flights through Sydney International Airport ? Bit silly I thought. But it is true Qantas should keep better records of luggage on flights. Maybe this would have provided Corby with evidence to support her claims - maybe it would not. Who knows.
But whether you go on holiday to Bali is another story. Bali is part of a Muslim country. While the Balinese are predominately Hindu, the businesses and hotels in Bali are predominately owned by the Suharto generals in Jakarta. And most of these guys are no sweethearts. So if you want to support these kind of people, sure spend your tourist dollars in Bali. If you think providing income to corrupt public officials, many of whom are supporting and assisting JI terrorists, is not such a good idea, then spend your tourist dollar elsewhere. Maybe in Malaysia, the centre of terrorism is Asia, is a good place to go ??
Get serious. Indonesia is corrupt countries. While they put on a pretty face for tourists and the Balinese certainly want our money, do you think they really want us decadent Westerners in their country ? Do you really believe the Bali bombers didn't have help from the Indonesian military ? Nothing moves in Indonesia without the approval of the military.
Personally, I would go to Thailand any day. And that is not to say Thailand is not corrupt too. But, the people are much nicer, the hotels better and they are fighting the terrorists supported by Malaysia in the south of their country. If I want to spend my tourist dollar in Asia, that's is certainly where I would go
G
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Flying over it to SIN is bad enough. I cast a NO vote!
Indonesia, interesting.
A report released recently shows in the last 5 years more Australians have either died or been seriously injured in INDONESIA than in Afganistan, Iraq and Nigeria put together.
Would travel to this country be wise?
A report released recently shows in the last 5 years more Australians have either died or been seriously injured in INDONESIA than in Afganistan, Iraq and Nigeria put together.
Would travel to this country be wise?
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I don't know just what she claimed to have packed in the boogie board bag, but have read references to there being a boogie board and a pair of flippers in there. How much would they weigh? Perhaps 10kg at most?
When this bag was checked in Brisbane, surely it was weighed when it was tagged. Does Qantas record the weight of each checked bag against the baggage check number? If so, that would have been a very simple way to establish if the weight had increased by 4.1kg somewhere after checkin and before collection.
I assume she would have been travelling on an allowance of 20kg of checked baggage. So even if each individual bag was not recorded, I would expect her total checked baggage weight would have been recorded at checkin. But since this has not been mentioned anywhere that I have seen, I can only assume that the checkin agent weight it, accepted she was not over her allownace and just tagged it? Is that what happens?
When this bag was checked in Brisbane, surely it was weighed when it was tagged. Does Qantas record the weight of each checked bag against the baggage check number? If so, that would have been a very simple way to establish if the weight had increased by 4.1kg somewhere after checkin and before collection.
I assume she would have been travelling on an allowance of 20kg of checked baggage. So even if each individual bag was not recorded, I would expect her total checked baggage weight would have been recorded at checkin. But since this has not been mentioned anywhere that I have seen, I can only assume that the checkin agent weight it, accepted she was not over her allownace and just tagged it? Is that what happens?
Qantas (as with most airlines) does not always record the weight of bags - whether you are over 20kg or not. There was a group of them travelling together. Likelyhood is all the luggage was put through together.
This is one of the weaknesses in the prosecution case but Corby's lawyers did not/could not ?? prove the luggage weights had changed - especially since her brother dissappeared quickly with his luggage.
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They are recording these weights at the moment.ronone69 said:
Last night I took an international flight SYD-MEL and had checked luggage.
The checkin agent wrote the weight of the luggage on my bagtag docket before sticking it on my BP folder and handing it back to me.
In 11 years of extremely frequent travel, I can not remember this being done before!
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