The totally off-topic thread

[JohnK]

I earn more than $40 per hour every hour I work so I don't really mind if hospitality workers who work on public holidays & weekends get that. I'm also happy to pay a surcharge.

I work in a highly skilled area and I may just earn $40 per hour.

I can't afford to eat out.

 

[jukebox333]

Used the TV to check the time yesterday AM, and heard the buffoons on Sunrise claim the Sydney Fish markets would sell "40,000 tonnes of prawns" on Good Friday.

Now I'm not a smart man, but the average iron ore train in the Pilbara carries 25,000 tonnes of ore in it. Prawns must be about 1/10th the density of iron ore. 40 trainloads of prawns?* I find that hard to believe.

Surely they meant 40,000 Kilograms?

*(apologies for the "If she were a witch, she'd be made of wood... and float" type logic trail!)

 

[Cossie]

Everything open here today, even down in Cornwall. Supermarkets open 24 hours too ergo booze also. Stark contrast to Perth... :shock:

I was in Germany at Easter last year, just about everything was closed on Good Friday and Easter Monday, of course most things are already closed in Germany every Sunday so that automatically includes Easter Sunday. One visit to Germany I was shocked to find even the 'self service' car washes were closed on Sundays.

Maybe that's the system we should have here, no shops open on Sunday nor any public hloiday, can you imagine the whinging from the likes of certain department store/white goods operators there would be then.

Two years prior to that I was in Italy at Easter and was really surprised to find that Good Friday was 'just another day' as far as I could tell and not a public holiday.

 

[JessicaTam]

A long weekend topic du jour. I knew we had a long weekend coming up because Kate Carnell was debating Jed Carney on Thursday re penalty rates. A regular event on the lobbyist calendar.

Do you mean Ged Kearney?

 

[Captain Halliday]

Used the TV to check the time yesterday AM, and heard the buffoons on Sunrise claim the Sydney Fish markets would sell "40,000 tonnes of prawns" on Good Friday.

Now I'm not a smart man, but the average iron ore train in the Pilbara carries 25,000 tonnes of ore in it. Prawns must be about 1/10th the density of iron ore. 40 trainloads of prawns?* I find that hard to believe.

Surely they meant 40,000 Kilograms?

*(apologies for the "If she were a witch, she'd be made of wood... and float" type logic trail!)

Indeed. Seems like something fishy going on.

 

[JessicaTam]

A prominent AFFer was interviewed on 774 this morning about an exhibition. I might have to get along.

 

[medhead]

Putting aside the haves and have nots, the salaried vs $ph worker issues, Sunday and public holiday trading in service sectors is in decline. There are places where one of the main costs is wages that do not open on Sundays, and yet they still have to pay rent. Or others that rely on family members to open up on these days. Penalty rates are a large part of the cause, and it seems to me the age old conundrum of either losing conditions or losing jobs is not an easy one to resolve but it does seem that this is increasingly the issue for many small businesses.

While estimates vary between ABS, the Productivity Commission, state government agencies and lobby groups, it is estimated that there are over 1,000,000 small businesses Australia, and for many of these penalty rates are crucial to their future economic viability. It is easy to say that business that can't afford the $50+ p.h. are not healthy, until you work in one or own one. Yes there are many other things to fix, but ending the tax dodges of multi-national firms for example, while important to do, will not make small coffee shops, cafes and mixed-businesses etc more likely to survive.

The problem with only focusing on penalty rates is that it assumes that cheap employees means a business will employ more people. If there is work for 3 people only I hardly see a business employing 6 people if the wages cost halved. SWMBO was paid, by her retail employer, yesterday for staying at home; the benefits of a permanent part time contract. But that just shows that there are bigger considerations than just the cost of the employee.

In terms of the tax system, if that was more efficient, the ATO was more productive and didn't have people shuffling money around in circles. The need for tax revenue would decrease, meaning taxes could be lowered which might be helpful for small business. Just an idea.

 

[Rugby]

Do you mean Ged Kearney?

Oops, yes.

 

[BadgerBoi]

Two years prior to that I was in Italy at Easter and was really surprised to find that Good Friday was 'just another day' as far as I could tell and not a public holiday.

Same as here (France). Monday is the holiday, but a lot of the major attractions and restaurants etc close on Mondays anyway so for tourists it's not much different

 

[OATEK]

The problem with only focusing on penalty rates is that it assumes that cheap employees means a business will employ more people. If there is work for 3 people only I hardly see a business employing 6 people if the wages cost halved. SWMBO was paid, by her retail employer, yesterday for staying at home; the benefits of a permanent part time contract. But that just shows that there are bigger considerations than just the cost of the employee.

In terms of the tax system, if that was more efficient, the ATO was more productive and didn't have people shuffling money around in circles. The need for tax revenue would decrease, meaning taxes could be lowered which might be helpful for small business. Just an idea.

It is estimated that half the workforce is employed by small business, and I think penalty rates are very important to many of them. I agree, they are not going to double the workforce on the basis of lower penalty rates. But an extra 3hrs of work a week from 1M businesses does have an impact.

While the tax system maybe a mess, I don't see how it can have the same impact as lower penalty rates. But its just my opinion.

 

[amaroo]

If you can't pay penalty rates, your probably not a viable business. Just remember trading was more restricted on public holidays, Saturdays and Sundays. The trade off to trade on these days was penalty rates.
Just remember the people working on these days are getting compensated for not being with their loved ones.

Curious - how many permanent/part time/casual do you employ?

Sounds like you're running a viable business - correct?

 

[medhead]

It is estimated that half the workforce is employed by small business, and I think penalty rates are very important to many of them. I agree, they are not going to double the workforce on the basis of lower penalty rates. But an extra 3hrs of work a week from 1M businesses does have an impact.

I just don't see it happening like that, SWMBO has had hours cut from their Sunday. South Australia has cut penalty rates, she doesn't see 3 hours extra as something that will happen. Just opinion, but without more customers there is no apparent driver to increase stuff numbers.

While the tax system maybe a mess, I don't see how it can have the same impact as lower penalty rates. But its just my opinion.

Just going from a couple of figures I read during the week - basically both individuals and businesses pay around 20-23% of their income as tax on a net basis. In the case of businesses compare that to the 30% nominal tax rate. What if we take up this flat tax rate idea and set that at the 20% level. Much simpler arrangement. Business can save money on tax compliance. We also don't need to have a big chunk of the public service, reducing the need for tax revenue. Can another 2 or 3 or 5% be saved from the government's revenue needs? Can we drop company tax as low as 15%? Definitely below 20%. If that was possible than that is surely a big plus for business. (this example is just to demonstrate the concept, not saying it's realistic).

 

[whatmeworry]

Curious - how many permanent/part time/casual do you employ?

Sounds like you're running a viable business - correct?

Don't worry, once we get rid of negative gearing, land prices will come down and thus rents will come down.

Biggest trading day of the week is Sunday.

Germany restricts trading on Sunday, with only 4 Sundays of the year allowed.

 

[amaroo]

I just don't see it happening like that, SWMBO has had hours cut from their Sunday. South Australia has cut penalty rates, she doesn't see 3 hours extra as something that will happen. Just opinion, but without more customers there is no apparent driver to increase stuff ).

IIRC that agreement is voluntary, increases cost, not supported by a large section of the industry. Little wonder the extra three hours didn't materialise!

 

[amaroo]

Don't worry, once we get rid of negative gearing, land prices will come down and thus rents will come down.

Biggest trading day of the week is Sunday.

Germany restricts trading on Sunday, with only 4 Sundays of the year allowed.

Nice distraction.

I'll take that as NONE and NO!

 

[medhead]

IIRC that agreement is voluntary, increases cost, not supported by a large section of the industry. Little wonder the extra three hours didn't materialise!

What? There is nothing voluntary about the agreement, it is in place; Or will be in place when ratified. It is/is to be the award. The base rate of pay may go up, but surprise surprise people who actually currently work on Sunday are going to get less pay. This is real world examples. There is supposed to be some voluntary element to refuse to work on Sunday. But the point, that all casual employees know, is that they'll get zero hours if they knock back shifts. Something that many people pontificating about that arrangement seem to miss. If a casuals want work their right of refusal is meaningless.

 

[amaroo]

What? There is nothing voluntary about the agreement, it is in place; Or will be in place when ratified. It is/is to be the award. The base rate of pay may go up, but surprise surprise people who actually currently work on Sunday are going to get less pay. This is real world examples. There is supposed to be some voluntary element to refuse to work on Sunday. But the point, that all casual employees know, is that they'll get zero hours if they knock back shifts. Something that many people pontificating about that arrangement seem to miss. If a casuals want work their right of refusal is meaningless.

It's voluntary - Google it.

Refusal to work and refusal to open a business on certain days = the same outcome.

 

[medhead]

It's voluntary - Google it.

Refusal to work and refusal to open a business on certain days = the same outcome.

It will be the award, nothing voluntary about it. Provide a link if you feel different.

As for refusal to work. That doesn't even make sense. While the new award might have some provision that employees can't be forced to work Sunday that doesn't change the fact that in many businesses a casual who turns don't a shift will suddenly find their shift roster becomes sparse in work hours. That fact has nothing to do with refusal to open a business.

 

[OATEK]

<SNIP> What if we take up this flat tax rate idea and set that at the 20% level. Much simpler arrangement. Business can save money on tax compliance. We also don't need to have a big chunk of the public service, reducing the need for tax revenue. Can another 2 or 3 or 5% be saved from the government's revenue needs? Can we drop company tax as low as 15%? Definitely below 20%. If that was possible than that is surely a big plus for business. (this example is just to demonstrate the concept, not saying it's realistic).

Couldn't agree more - it seems to work in many other countries. But what about negative gearing I hear the investors say...

 

[whatmeworry]

<redacted>

Don't worry about it, the little business person thought the "Adults" would solve their problems...

My advice for small businesses owners is to sell quick while the Adults are running the show.

C-Mac employs 38 staff, has consistently turned over $5 million a year and has roughly $3 million worth of plant equipment.
McMaster wants to retire in three years and is faced with the prospect of walking away with nothing. He is not alone. Financial advisers are becoming increasingly *anxious about the capacity of retiring baby boomer business owners to extract value from a sale.
Profits haven’t returned since the financial crisis and buyers won’t pay for goodwill because banks won’t lend against it.

Why Baby Boomer business owners may retire with nothing