Sydney Airport to welcome A380's arrival

[Mal]

I don't think Qantas is game enough to add 380's to the flight schedules.

Too many variables in the way - including a certian aviation company delaying the release of a certain new plane

I don't think SQ have quantified the first flight of their "first to fly" 380 either. So a real waiting game for all airlines involved.

 

[Yada Yada]

Qantas may seek compensation for A380 delay
By Lachlan Colquhoun in Sydney
Published: June 14 2006 15:21 | Last updated: June 14 2006 15:21

Qantas Airways, the Australian flagship carrier, has begun an internal review of the implications of a seven-month delay in the delivery of the new Airbus A380 super jumbo and is likely to ask for compensation from the European aircraft maker.

Geoff Dixon, Qantas chief executive, said on Wednesday that the airline would review the consequences of the Airbus delay over the next two weeks, and then initiate discussions with the manufacturer on compensation.

“Our discussions with Airbus will centre around the new delivery timetable, competitive issues, compensation and possible short term replacement aircraft,” Mr Dixon said.

More...

Airbus seem to be really struggling with the A380. They haven't sold enough to break even and now they are facing massive compensation bills.

And QF may end up with some interesting short-term additions to their fleet.

 

[JohnK]

Airbus seem to be really struggling with the A380. They haven't sold enough to break even and now they are facing massive compensation bills.

And QF may end up with some interesting short-term additions to their fleet.

The problems with the A380 and the failure of the A350 have caused some serious problems at Airbus.

QF like many other airlines may end up with some new permanent additions to their fleet. And it does not look like it will be Airbus!

 

[oz_mark]

The problems with the A380 and the failure of the A350 have caused some serious problems at Airbus.

QF like many other airlines may end up with some new permanent additions to their fleet. And it does not look like it will be Airbus!

Realistically, the A380 is a big engineering project, and I would have thought that the players involved would already have had some sort of contingency plans in place.

Boeing have been better at picking the market trends lately, but a couple of years ago the shoe was on the other foot. These things go in cycles.

 

[serfty]

Hmmm... in the LOTFAP this week Boeing publicised that an order for a PAX 744 had been confirmed. Did not reveal the carrier, but I'm sure there's a few out A380 buyers out there in need of something in the interim (EK, SQ, QF...)

 

[JohnK]

Realistically, the A380 is a big engineering project, and I would have thought that the players involved would already have had some sort of contingency plans in place.

With Singapore Airlines ordering 20 787-9 a few days ago it would suggest that they did not have any contingency in place. A few other airlines are in the same boat.

Nobody said that the A380 was not a huge project but what was promised was too soon for release. Airbus (EADS) is talking about losing something like $630 million in the next 3-4 years on this deal and I don't think this figure includes any compensation that may arise.

Boeing have been better at picking the market trends lately, but a couple of years ago the shoe was on the other foot. These things go in cycles.

True but Boeing is laughing now. And things can change again in a few years.

 

[oz_mark]

With Singapore Airlines ordering 20 787-9 a few days ago it would suggest that they did not have any contingency in place. A few other airlines are in the same boat.

Nobody said that the A380 was not a huge project but what was promised was too soon for release. Airbus (EADS) is talking about losing something like $630 million in the next 3-4 years on this deal and I don't think this figure includes any compensation that may arise.

You would have thought that lessons would have been learnt from the original 747 development. These things happen.

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

With Singapore Airlines ordering 20 787-9 a few days ago it would suggest that they did not have any contingency in place. A few other airlines are in the same boat.

Not really related except to the point that SQ probably enjoyed the timing of picking boeing over airbus.

The 787-9 isnt going to be delivered for years, by which time all their confirmed A380 (and possibly any options they decide to take up) will have arrived.

The 787-9 is not suitable as A380 replacement/alternative as suits different markets and routes.

SQ, EK, and QF I'm sure will be getting a fat compensation deal from Airbus for the late delivery. SQ will have made the point with airbus how lengthy their delay was and the marketing based on airbus promises has centered around first to fly in 2006. Indeed sometimes I wonder if the likelihood of delay and compensation was the rationale behind EK's massive order. Airbus' earlier estimates of the number of sales needed to break even, which haven't yet been met, may prove to be understated. Add in the knock on effects for A350 and its a bad situation for Airbus.

 

[Yada Yada]

You would have thought that lessons would have been learnt from the original 747 development. These things happen.

I was too young to know this. What happened?

 

[Yada Yada]

Airbus dives on flagship delays

The European maker's ascendancy over Boeing looks to be at an end, reports aviation writer Steve Creedy

June 16, 2006

AIRBUS does not expect to recover from delays to its flagship A380 program until 2010 after it was forced to slash next year's delivery targets by more than half and further defer deliveries of its flagship superjumbo by up to seven months.

Shares in Airbus parent EADS lost billions of dollars, as angry airlines considered compensation claims and warned they could reconsider orders after the European manufacturer slashed the number of A380s it expects to make in 2007 from more than 20 to nine.

EADS shares plummeted by as much as 34 per cent, as news of the production woes strained Airbus's credibility and raised doubts about its ability to manage the program.

It was quickly followed by a second hit, as Singapore Airlines (SIA) decided against the company's troubled mid-size A350 and announced an order for 20 rival Boeing 787-9s worth $US4.52 billion ($6.1 billion) and took options on 20 more. This was despite a yet-to-be -unveiled redesign of the A350 to widen the fuselage, add bigger wings and more powerful engines.

More...

Quite a bit of bad news for Airbus.

 

[JohnK]

The 787-9 isnt going to be delivered for years, by which time all their confirmed A380 (and possibly any options they decide to take up) will have arrived.

Airbus are struggling with the delivery of the A380. They have not sold enough of them to break even, will be losing money until at least 2010 and now have said that they will not be able to deliver them as expected. To me that is a serious problem which airlines like QF, SQ and EK will be looking to rectify swiftly.

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

Airbus are struggling with the delivery of the A380. They have not sold enough of them to break even, will be losing money until at least 2010 and now have said that they will not be able to deliver them as expected. To me that is a serious problem which airlines like QF, SQ and EK will be looking to rectify swiftly.

SQ gets its first A380 this year (maybe) and a bunch next year. No way is a brand new aircraft (the prior version of which is still in the early stages of development) going to be ready sooner.

 

[JohnK]

SQ gets its first A380 this year (maybe) and a bunch next year. No way is a brand new aircraft (the prior version of which is still in the early stages of development) going to be ready sooner.

Yes but if you read one of the articles of the 27 or so A380's that were due to be delivered (promised) next year they will only be able to deliver about 9. In my opinion that is not good advertising or business practice.

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

Yes but if you read one of the articles of the 27 or so A380's that were due to be delivered (promised) next year they will only be able to deliver about 9. In my opinion that is not good advertising or business practice.

Agreed. But your implied comment was along the lines that SQ ordered the 787-900 due to A380 delays. Since SQ gets a significant proportion of those 9 next year (plus hopefully 1 this year) that implication is not the case IMHO.

QF otoh faces even more of a delay than SQ since the reduced deliveries in the first couple of years compound. I am not sure whether QFs strategy has been as dependent on the A380 as SQs. Both airlines (and EK) no doubt are getting significant compensation for the delays.

 

[JohnK]

Agreed. But your implied comment was along the lines that SQ ordered the 787-900 due to A380 delays. Since SQ gets a significant proportion of those 9 next year (plus hopefully 1 this year) that implication is not the case IMHO.

In my opinion I feel the SQ order of the 787-900 is in part due to the late delivery of the A380 and the failure of the A350. Otherwise Airbus may have had a bigger order from SQ. If you read further back it was just a discussion with oz_mark and mentioning airline's not having contingency in place in case things went wrong.

 

[oz_mark]

I was too young to know this. What happened?

I'll have to details, but one thing I remember was that the original jets developed insufficinet power, and took somethink like a year to rectify.

 

[bigjobs]

in some of these aritcles the A350 is mentioned as having various challenges. what are some of these? does anyone know?

 

[NM]

in some of these aritcles the A350 is mentioned as having various challenges. what are some of these? does anyone know?

The original A350 design was based significantly on the A330, with new engines and a new wing. As such, it struggled in competitive analysis against the 787 which was a whole new design with more use of composite materials and other efficiencies.

Several airlines and leasing companied told Airbus that they needed to scrap the A350 plans and start again with a whole new design if they were to be competitive.