Suggestion to consolidate threads on Qantas issues

justinbrett

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@Mattg @support Can we just consolidate the Qantas rants into a single thread? We've now got quite a few overlapping threads of the same content.







 

eastwest101

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@Mattg @support Can we just consolidate the Qantas rants into a single thread? We've now got quite a few overlapping threads of the same content.








I think they are all legitimate topics of conversation for a forum like this, probably if people were able to stay on-topic within each thread it would make for easier reading. :)

For this topic though - there are several considerations as to why people may or may not be directing their business elsewhere away from Qantas, some in the past, and some very recently, and some for one particular reason and others for several different reasons. Perhaps this thread would be more useful/informative if it morphed into a more granular poll with a more systematic breakdown of reasons why or why not people have increased their spend with Qantas?

Like many frequent travelers during the Covid epidemic and cut-back in VA services drove me to flying with QF a bit more during 2020 and 2021, but for me this was a "grudge purchase" as often QF was sometimes the only practical choice that didn't leave you stranded in transit overnight when all the state premiers were opening and closing borders on a whim. For people who did continue to travel, because their jobs required it, I would say that QF became the least worst option in a disrupted airline market.

Although I have a foot in each "camp" still, I am certainly considering how each airline is set up to cope with schedule changes/flight consolidations and other IIROPS and the overall stability and frequency of their respective networks in being able to get you to your destination in some semblance of what was originally booked. If all airlines are going to be playing "crew/scheduling/yield managers bingo" with my travel plans, then I intend to book with an airline that has the resources and frequency to recover me onto a different flight or even route to get me to where I need to be without spending hours on the phone, that's an individual/personal decision, but also a decision of what people think their own time is worth.

All airlines are suffering a lot of self inflicted wounds and the after effects of "short termism" management that has now resulted in capacity constraints, effects from outsourcing, crew shortages in the air, lack of experienced or even inexperience ground staff, missed opportunities to improve business systems and pax contact efficiencies etc etc
 

justinbrett

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I think they are all legitimate topics of conversation for a forum like this, probably if people were able to stay on-topic within each thread it would make for easier reading. :)

I'm sure that's the intent, but all of them have descended into generic, non-constructive rants, to the point where people who bring up positive aspects of QF get flamed and accused of working for QF.

It's become a toxic group-think environment and I don't think does AFF any good, except maybe for the ad revenue.

That's not to say the rants aren't genuine, I'm just saying let's put them in one place, let people vent, but don't let it make AFF just a place for people to rant.
 

Scarlett

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I'm sure that's the intent, but all of them have descended into generic, non-constructive rants, to the point where people who bring up positive aspects of QF get flamed and accused of working for QF.

It's become a toxic group-think environment and I don't think does AFF any good, except maybe for the ad revenue.

That's not to say the rants aren't genuine, I'm just saying let's put them in one place, let people vent, but don't let it make AFF just a place for people to rant.
This might be restating the point, but of course they have: this is a forum where the majority of members likely prefer to fly ‘full service’ or ‘legacy’ airlines.

For us as pax, that comes with some preconceptions, based on what airlines were or previously offered in terms of that ‘full’ service. Or at the time was just normal service. We therefore see pretty regular declining service and are not happy.

For airline execs, I’m sure they see FR flying something like 200 aircraft in the air at any point in time and think, we need to reduce our cost base to be able to compete with that. So they, certainly the legacy / full service airlines, then try to cut costs in every part of their business, but it’s likely a constant battle for them and I’m sure they’re not happy either.

So, rants: of course there are. From the perspective of the majority of us here on AFF, the trend is not what we like. But from the perspective of FR, WN, JT, and maybe future Bonza pax, they’re getting cheaper airfares to more places. They might be the only happy people in this whole sorry tale… well at least until they have to pay $20 for a boarding pass, or $200 for excess baggage fees, or until there’s any IRROPS…

Anyway, I’m about to board a Lion Air flight because it’s the only flight at this time of day to my planned destination. CGK domestic is relatively calm, my luggage and golf clubs are checked in and as at T-50 minutes, my flight is on time. Wish me luck!
 

Guvner

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I'm sure that's the intent, but all of them have descended into generic, non-constructive rants, to the point where people who bring up positive aspects of QF get flamed and accused of working for QF.

It's become a toxic group-think environment and I don't think does AFF any good, except maybe for the ad revenue.

That's not to say the rants aren't genuine, I'm just saying let's put them in one place, let people vent, but don't let it make AFF just a place for people to rant.
Who has been flamed and where is the evidence of toxicity?
 
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support

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@Mattg @support Can we just consolidate the Qantas rants into a single thread? We've now got quite a few overlapping threads of the same content.
They're similar but I don't see them as overlapping. If we merged every thread that was similar we'd have a few jumbled threads on very broad topics. I don't see a need for that.
 

pauly7

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@Mattg @support Can we just consolidate the Qantas rants into a single thread? We've now got quite a few overlapping threads of the same content.








Personally I agree with you but ultimately it’s up to Admin and looks like they’ve made their decision :)

There is also a definitive editorial preference at the moment by the resident reporter which is getting a bit boring to read unfortunately - but I do see that the reporter seems have been unluckily affected for some reason much more than others which may be contributing to this.

The thing that is fuelling the ongoing conversation is the fact that the only competition (domestically) is not that appealing for many to move to, for lots of different reasons - so it’s not as simple as ‘just stop using QF, stop complaining and just fly someone else’.

My thought is that because of this, the people that have actually been affected by the overloading of the call centre issues are upset and just want a solution, rather than actually wanting to move to another airline - hence the very ‘passionate’ ongoing conversations across many many threads.

Bring on an interesting international trip report to break it up I say :)
 

justinbrett

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Personally I agree with you but ultimately it’s up to Admin and looks like they’ve made their decision :)

There is also a definitive editorial preference at the moment by the resident reporter which is getting a bit boring to read unfortunately - but I do see that the reporter seems have been unluckily affected for some reason much more than others which may be contributing to this.

The thing that is fuelling the ongoing conversation is the fact that the only competition (domestically) is not that appealing for many to move to, for lots of different reasons - so it’s not as simple as ‘just stop using QF, stop complaining and just fly someone else’.

My thought is that because of this, the people that have actually been affected by the overloading of the call centre issues are upset and just want a solution, rather than actually wanting to move to another airline - hence the very ‘passionate’ ongoing conversations across many many threads.

Bring on an interesting international trip report to break it up I say :)
Yes I fully agree, and I think it was clear when I posted those threads, many of which were articles, and that particular editor has certainly been painting a picture clearly coloured by personal experience - something I would have avoided myself for journalistic integrity - but I fully accept AFF is a commercial entity and is free to push whatever agenda it wants and will likely always side with its own staff.

I’ve made my point, enough people agreed with me that I’m glad I made it, and even if it has just a subtle impact in the way this site is run than it would have been worth it.
 
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So someone ( I’m not sure that AFF Editor styles themselves as a ‘journalist’) writes after some personal experiences and somehow you would have avoided do so for ‘journalistic integrity’? Better that they make stuff up, then? 🤣.

As far as I know the site is ALL about our experiences in flying and travel ( plus Covid, recently and done other more flippant stuff). SO start a thread “ Things I didn’t experience flying”. 😊

I wouldn’t flatter yourself that you’ll make a difference on how the site is run. When I’ve got suggestions on the site, I find a PM to the relevant people is the best way.
Indeed, that's a big appeal to my joining FlyerTalk and AFF. If I want to hear PR spin or isolated incidents I'd read the news or watch A Current Affair. However, if I want the actual on the ground experience of people like me making representative bookings and actual experiences travelling, I'd head to the forums. I've certainly learned a lot here and on FlyerTalk over the years, beyond the obvious how many toasters can you buy with your FF points you often hear on fluff pieces on the news. Certainly, I would never know that I would need to re-check my bag with JQ despite being on a connecting flight and doubt any serious aviation journalist would cover such a technicality.

Getting back to the matter at hand, what these posts are beginning to show us is that customer service failings go beyond the hours on hold or long queues at Sydney or Melbourne airport as the news seems to suggest is QF's only big issues. It points to a systemic failure that impacts every aspect of the travel experience from IRROPs handling to baggage handling. And look, I've been extremely lucky with QF so far. I haven't encountered such issues...yet. But the law of averages suggests that at some point I am due to be seriously inconvenienced by QF. Here's to hoping uncle Alan starts addressing these issues before I do encounter such issues.

-RooFlyer88
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Glad you got your bags. As the saying goes, if you're not sure whether it's conspiracy or stuff up it's most likely stuff up.
It's actually called Kangaroo's Razor:
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by uncle Alan cutting more corners than sides on a square!
 
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I just want to address some of the comments raised here.

Firstly, I can honestly assure you that I don't get out of bed each day and think "how can I attack Qantas (or any other organisation) today". This couldn't be further from the truth. I try to keep all coverage on AFF fair and accurate.

There have indeed been a lot of articles recently about Qantas customer service issues. That's simply because it's such a hot topic and a big problem for a lot of people right now. This is clearly demonstrated by the number of threads and posts linked at the start of this thread, as well as the amount of coverage these issues have received in mainstream media in recent weeks.

Our articles are clearly resonating with many of our readers as I have been flooded with emails and messages each time a new one is published, with people both thanking me and sharing their own nightmare stories. I am also in regular contact with many frequent travellers and industry insiders, and I can tell you that right now, the number of people contacting me about their bad experiences or requests for help dealing with Qantas outweighs similar messages about Virgin by about 20:1.

Even if you haven't personally been affected, it is quite clear that Qantas has some major problems right now and this has been reflected in the AFF coverage over recent weeks. A lot of people are in fact coming to AFF specifically because they can't reach Qantas and are looking for solutions, which hopefully we have been able to offer them.

When other airlines have issues, I do also call them out on this (as I recently did with Singapore Airlines and when Virgin was going through its own issues in 2020). If you've been reading AFF for a long time, you'll have noticed that we publish a mixture of positive, negative and neutral stories about many different organisations including Qantas. There is no "agenda" that myself or anyone else at AFF is trying to push.

When Qantas demonstrates that it has substantially improved its customer service, I'll also write about that. It's not a one-way street. :)

AFF is not a mainstream media outlet that merely copies and pastes press releases or writes puff pieces in exchange for special privileges (or money). We are an independent business and as the editor, I am also a real frequent flyer - as are many of the people on this forum who share their stories and travel experiences every day.

Yes, I do sometimes offer an opinion when writing articles for AFF. I don't think that's a bad thing. Opinions and real-world experiences with airlines and loyalty programs are a large part of the reason people come to AFF! After all, at its heart, AFF is a forum for frequent flyers to share their experiences and views.

In any case, don't worry - I already decided a little while ago that I'm not going to keep writing about the Qantas call centre unless something changes or there is new information. That's not to say we won't keep Qantas accountable when there are other problems, but I also won't bore our readers with more articles about the same thing.

Finally, I would like to draw your attention to AFF's editorial policy:


AFF Editorial Policy said:
Australian Frequent Flyer is a website for people who want to get more out of their travel and loyalty programs. We know that AFF members aren’t your typical travellers. That’s why our editorial content is not just a regurgitation of what you’ll find in the mainstream media.

We report independently on airline and loyalty program news. We don’t just copy and paste press releases. We aim to ensure our content is well-informed, accurate and gives the full picture.

We acknowledge our sources and don’t rip off other people’s work.

Australian Frequent Flyer is also an advocate for travellers and members of loyalty programs, including frequent flyer programs. We’ll help you to get more out of loyalty programs by highlighting special offers and ways to maximise their value. But we’ll also tell you if something isn’t right.

We’re not here to bash airlines – or any organisation, for that matter. We present a balanced mix of informative articles about lots of different issues. The most important thing to us is that you get the facts.

Finally, we aim to ensure our reviews are fair and unbiased. Our reviews are not advertorials. We usually pay for our own flights but if the writer happened to travel as a guest of an airline, we’ll disclose this – and it will not influence our opinion.

That’s our commitment to you.
 

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