Has Qantas lost your business due to its failure to provide customer service?

[Mattg]

There are now almost 2,000 posts in the Qantas Call Centre Long Wait Times thread, and it seems almost daily there are new threads popping up on AFF with people sharing their nightmares of trying and failing to get basic customer service from Qantas.

I met with some friends yesterday in the Netherlands, who are not frequent flyers at all, and even they had experienced the terrible Qantas service on a recent trip to Australia (with over 8 hours on hold and multiple call dropouts after Qantas cancelled one of their flights and they couldn't rebook online). After their experience, these friends vowed never to book with Qantas again for future trips to Australia!

I'm now wondering how many other people have also stopped booking Qantas flights and switched their business to another airline as a direct result of the terrible customer service being provided in recent times.

So, have you stopped booking Qantas flights or switched your main frequent flyer program away from Qantas Frequent Flyer? If so, are you able to estimate how many $ of your business Qantas has lost as a result?

I've personally stopped booking new flights directly through Qantas where possible because (a) I don't think they deserve my business, and (b) because I value my time. I don't want to waste hours on hold when Qantas inevitably changes or cancels my flights (or my booking doesn't get ticketed properly). I also don't really want a repeat of last year's incident where Qantas left me stranded at Perth Airport. There are other airlines and I'm now actively using them. I'm also going to cancel my Qantas Frequent Flyer credit card and will apply shortly for a Velocity credit card to replace it.

 

[Melburnian1]

The last paragraph is a big step, especially given the amount of travelling you need or like to do.

I know one corporate (a business with c.55 employees, so not large) that had looked at changing from QF to VA when the latter was VA 1.0, but apparently VA 1.0 had no interest in offering the business a 'good deal'. I found this a strange attitude to knock back a potential client that would book a lot of high cost fares. Perhaps that type of entity will now consider whether VA 2.0 can meet their requirements.

Which financial institution offers reasonable Velocity credit cards these days? My bank, NAB, discontinued these post the RBA interchange fee changes, which was annoying. nab rewards isn't as accretive, but it links to Velocity and KrisFlyer.

 

[sudoer]

I've personally stopped booking new flights directly through Qantas because (a) I don't think they deserve my business, and (b) because I value my time. I don't want to waste hours on hold when Qantas inevitably changes or cancels my flights (or my booking doesn't get ticketed properly).

I agree with this and have largely stopped purchasing cash tickets with Qantas. The absence of customer service on the phones and at the airport makes it difficult to reconcile the premium charged on both domestic and international flights.

For domestic, Virgin maintain a far higher standard of customer service at a lower price point, and have far better domestic lounge catering. VA Gold is definitely the sweet spot and has been easy to earn (with a match) and retain with the current DSC. I am very happy to forego an onboard "snack" when the lounge food is actually appealing, and I'm saving 30-40% on the ticket price.

For international I will generally book awards with Qantas for the SC earn, but if I need to pay cash I would probably look to other oneworld airlines before considering Qantas.

I'm also going to cancel my Qantas Frequent Flyer credit card and will apply shortly for a Velocity credit card to replace it.

I haven't gone this far - I do still churn for QFF points and actively book classic awards with QF to help retain WP.

That may shift when VA finally get around to launching the partnership with NH but for now, the combination of Points Club Plus for earning SC on awards and getting a 100 SC discount on retain, combined with WP for requesting awards, is quite lucrative.

 

[jakeseven7]

The last paragraph is a big step, especially given the amount of travelling you need or like to do.

I know one corporate (a business with c.55 employees, so not large) that had looked at changing from QF to VA when the latter was VA 1.0, but apparently VA 1.0 had no interest in offering the business a 'good deal'. I found this a strange attitude to knock back a potential client that would book a lot of high cost fares.

Hmmm that is interesting feedback.

We (our business) moved to 100% QF during covid times because of issues with VA route network, frequency meeting our business needs as we do a lot of flying outside the main trunks that VA focus on - but also a legal issue we had with VA over flight credits / travel bank they claimed never existed / 'had to be used as credit' - which we won and they were forced to refund in cash.

During that dispute VA were restructuring and basically, the whole BD and corp account management team at VA were let go. Almost our VA account contacts were made redundant - which made it very difficult to work with them from a business perspective, even if we wanted to.

Our remaining contact has said that they are basically going to rely on their retail fares to do the business crowd work which seems to be in line with the new positioning of VA2 to be more focussed on leisure and less focused on business/corporates.

So when you talk about that business being knocked back in that way by VA, I don't think its because 'VA has no interest' I think its literally because that is not the business strategy anymore.

I'm sure they have an interest in taking the businesses money of course, who wouldn't, but their expectation is you just book what is available because that is their model for now.

I personally feel that with the announcement of the new equivalent offering to Qantas Business Rewards, they are clearly indicating they are still interested in business flyers to an extent, but perhaps right now don't want to sink too much $ into it right now - and remain focussed on the more leisure customer, less business / corporate driven.

 

[ozmouse]

Even though i am platinum, i have never been devoted QF acolyte. My status is a result of domestic travel, hence the red roo gets a head up there. And future does not look like i will be earning that again. You want to love QF, but i dont.

In 2 weeks times, i am flying QF reward to Singapore, on my first o/s trip in 2 years. But after that, my 2 month 3 continent journey will not be with QF or oneworld for that matter. In other words, i fly the airlines that deliver a schedule, planes, inflight service and a price i am comfortable with. Currently QF doesnt get a nose in on price alone. (SQ gets most of my international dollar in the past and Turkish airlines got most of this journey).

Should be said alot of airlines and other industries are not copying in 2022. But yes some are doing better than others, and others are not blaming customers and covid for current business practises. I got caught up in the schedule changes, call centre fiasco, and the eticketing mess for the single QF trip i will be doing for awhile.

Really disappointing situation. This period is not a time for cost cutting. It should be a time of investment, new thinking and leadership. That will impress this rusty customer and get my custom.

 

[dajop]

So when you talk about that business being knocked back in that way by VA, I don't think its because 'VA has no interest' I think its literally because that is not the business strategy anymore.

I'm sure they have an interest in taking the businesses money of course, who wouldn't, but their expectation is you just book what is available because that is their model for now.

I personally feel that with the announcement of the new equivalent offering to Qantas Business Rewards, they are clearly indicating they are still interested in business flyers to an extent, but perhaps right now don't want to sink too much $ into it right now - and remain focussed on the more leisure customer, less business / corporate driven.

It's almost like the Virgin Blue days (which seemed to be more successful than the VA1 period anyway), of focussing on the small and smallish medium sized business segment. The sort of businesses that don't warrant big corporate rebate programs, so are probably better off with BFOD anyway, and ultimately if VA2's pricing is keen enough, that would mean VA2 gets a good chunk of their business (schedules and frequencies permitting).

 

[Fergo747]

I agree with the sentiments posted here about the woeful customer service experienced (even being P1 the service of late has left a lot to be desired), however I can't see the individual (as opposed to the business) deserting QF having a huge impact.

There are still many corporate accounts that are 'required' to book through QF / OW and these are the accounts that I would guess generate the biggest profit margins for QF, not the individual leisure traveller looking for either points redemption or cheap sale fares. For example, I have recently booked two trips in May, one to UK and one to US for work and they have been booked in Flex J due to availability with the fares being stupidly expensive - these types of trips will continue for a lot of businesses and is what QF cares about.

On the domestic front, QF is still ahead in terms of frequency and destinations so people are 'forced' onto QF due to availability. Whilst I do think people are taking their business from QF elsewhere, I can't actually see this having a material impact on their bottom line.

 

[Guvner]

I currently have 14 flights booked between now and Sept. A mix of dom and intl. Eight are on QF.
When I eventually burn down over 1M FF points sitting dormant, I'll give Qantas a miss for a while. I'm not handcuffed to QF via status as I have OWE from another carrier.
Certainly when it comes to Intl travel I won't be using them in the foreseeable future post Sept.
Domestically there's not so much choice.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

From a strategic perspective, not sure QFF is adequately geared towards small business the same as it’s geared towards big business.

From a personal perspective, definitely moving away - depleting QFF points, using credits.

The main sticking point is which program is the better alternative. If one was to go a for a LT OW status then you might still have to deal with Qantas issues in terms of flights. *A has so-so LT offerings. Virgin has so-so international partnerships, but better domestic options. Maybe just go with Middle East options?!?!

 

[kangarooflyer88]

The absence of customer service on the phones and at the airport makes it difficult to reconcile the premium charged on both domestic and international flights.

Perhaps I'm missing something here, and I apologize in advance if that is the case, as most of my travel has been internationally outside of Australia. But generally during an IRROPs which digging into my memory bank goes back to the United and Air Canada days, meant visiting a Customer Service centre or ticketing agent at the airport and having them sort all of this out. At no point was I put on hold with the agent having the power to fix everything on their end without having to call someone. There is only one time where I saw an agent lift a phone and make a call during check-in which was flying United from Hong Kong to Ottawa, connecting from Tokyo Haneda to Tokyo Narita requiring a manual override.

So far, aside from the LDH award trip that I needed to rebook last year due to COVID restrictions, I haven't had a need to deal with QF customer service and intend to avoid doing so until uncle Alan gets this problem sorted. One thing QF could benefit from is looking abroad to see how customer service is handled.

Even though i am platinum, i have never been devoted QF acolyte. My status is a result of domestic travel, hence the red roo gets a head up there.

When I eventually burn down over 1M FF points sitting dormant, I'll give Qantas a miss for a while. I'm not handcuffed to QF via status as I have OWE from another carrier.

This has been one thing I have learned early on in my career, loyalty works both ways and the airlines and hotels have to earn it from me before I go out of my way to be loyal to them. This is why I'm only settling for mid-tier status on QF, Delta and elsewhere. What's the point in dedicating all my travel to one alliance or one hotel chain when they eventually disappoint me? Better to find the best deals you can on travel, (ideally but not necessarily) booking with whichever ones you have status with. Having status spread out gives you many more options!

The other point that should be brought up is what the value one gets from status in a frequent flyer or other such travel loyalty program. Even with QF's failing customer service, I still might want to get status with them if the price is right (which it often is). For instance a single $1100 trip next year to AKL in J secures my QF Gold status through 2024. And for that I get additional baggage allowance, better seat selection, priority security and boarding and lounge access which taken together will likely result in more than $1000 in value during the travel year.

Frequent travel programs are targeted at a specific demographic, those who travel regularly but on the cheap. After all, if you are travelling regularly in J, why on earth would you care about something like QF status? After all, you are getting all the benefits of a Platinum One on such a ticket (plus a better seat/service)! Sure the more astute travellers may credit such flights to their FFP but it's unlikely they'll use the elite benefits accrued. For instance, a colleague of mine would regularly travel United Polaris J and domestic F pre-pandemic and would easily earn United Global Services based on her annual travel spend. Despite that she rarely used the global upgrade certificates offered by UA, instead sharing it with colleagues and friends who rarely can travel J.

-RooFlyer88

 

[astrosly]

I wish I could move to VA but as they don't service my city I don't have much choice. As 90% of my travel is transiting SYD to somewhere else and return I don't want the hassle of switching terminals and carriers so often.

I still needed to fly as I wasn't entitled to an extension the first year as I have an end March anniversary and had retained so have been relying on status support credits, rollovers and DSCs on the flights I have taken to maintain status.

I have spent less with QF the past 12 months as due to PCP and the fee free changes and cancellations on rewards bookings I have been booking a lot more domestic classic rewards including J classic bookings then I would ever do. I have already booked forward to the end of March to retain (with rollover) and I'm not booking any more flights till next April. And then, only QF domestic and overseas travel will be with other airlines.

And like @Mattg, having been stranded in Sydney due to my flight to Armidale being cancelled has left a really bitter feeling towards QF.

 

[sudoer]

But generally during an IRROPs which digging into my memory bank goes back to the United and Air Canada days, meant visiting a Customer Service centre or ticketing agent at the airport and having them sort all of this out. At no point was I put on hold with the agent having the power to fix everything on their end without having to call someone.

Qantas completely removed this presence from airports about 18 months ago:

Qantas Airport Service Desk Closures Outrage Frequent Flyers

Qantas will close its airport service desks and sales counters, and reduce staffing levels at baggage services desks, resulting in the loss of around 100 jobs.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

IRROPS now mean calling the same QF reservations number which has several-hour hold times ...

 

[Daver6]

While they haven't lost my business, they have lost some business. For a couple of short get aways I was contemplating, it would have meant calling up to request award seats be released. I wasn't prepared to go through that pain so just didn't book anything.

So while not a huge loss in dollar terms for QF, it's still a loss in getting some points off their books.

 

[Peasant]

I moved much of my international business from QF to SQ pre-COVID, due mainly to the significant operational disruptions I was facing with a fleet that was ostensibly too lean for the flying schedule. The delays were getting ridiculous.

I remained relatively happy with my QF domestic/trans-Tasman experiences until they started to remove airport customer service. In my experience there's an issue with my Q tags, the bag drop kiosks or their baggage belts at least half of the time. I need help more often than not because of their own infrastructure incompetence and long-term failure to invest.

The impact of the most recent wave of issues? I don't avoid QF completely, but half my domestic flying is now on VA (which I avoided totally until this year) and if I have an itinerary I expect will need to be changed, I intentionally avoid QF because I don't have time to spend hours on hold.

QF's failures are now daily water cooler and pub talk in Australia. They have a problem.

 

[jakeseven7]

It's almost like the Virgin Blue days (which seemed to be more successful than the VA1 period anyway), of focussing on the small and smallish medium sized business segment. The sort of businesses that don't warrant big corporate rebate programs, so are probably better off with BFOD anyway, and ultimately if VA2's pricing is keen enough, that would mean VA2 gets a good chunk of their business (schedules and frequencies permitting).

I agree with you it does feel that way that they will just pick up a proportion of those 'casual / smaller' businesses - but without the human overhead that is required to pitch for and manage corporate accounts.

Those small businesses / sole traders will probably just buy straight off the website/amalgamator anyway and they can try and steer them onto the new version of QBR as well as an option too.

 

[Guvner]

QF's failures are now daily water cooler and pub talk in Australia. They have a problem.

That's an interesting observation actually.
I've heard people in my "circle", whom I've never heard discussing travel before, now speaking negatively about Qantas. They've unwittingly become a talking point.
Qantas has become "F%c%ing Qantas" in the vernacular.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Qantas completely removed this presence from airports about 18 months ago:

Qantas Airport Service Desk Closures Outrage Frequent Flyers

Qantas will close its airport service desks and sales counters, and reduce staffing levels at baggage services desks, resulting in the loss of around 100 jobs.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

IRROPS now mean calling the same QF reservations number which has several-hour hold times ...

Interesting article and something I didn't realize. Is this a permanent change for QF or just during these COVID times? If the former, then QF really needs to invest in the whole customer self service bit. Perhaps they could look to United and other airlines that IMHO do a good job at enabling customers to resolve IRROP issues without having to involve an agent. That being said, there is something to be said for having agents at the airport who know the system like the back of their hand and can find a way to get you out the door. Yes self-service can help to some extent but it won't replace that experience. After all, any self-service rebooking tool is going to have a bunch of rigid rules built in that have no understanding for how travel and IRROPs happen. For instance, if you've got a traveller flying domestic to international (e.g. MEL > SYD > LAX) it may make sense to push the customer over to Virgin Australia if it means they won't misconnect their onward international flight. Then again, they aren't even doing self-serve which leaves people to hang on the phone for hours waiting to speak to an agent who has likely only received an hour of training. Then the cherry on top is Joyce says we're rusty travellers and that over half of the calls to the contact centre could've been done online

The issue with Alan Joyce is he is out of touch. He has no idea what domestic or international travel is like in Australia, taking private jets instead of having to mix with the rusty traveller out in public. I'd encourage him to spend a month flying in economy on his airline as a regular customer and see the type of cough travellers have to go through. These problems won't be solved with a clever PR campaign of Aussie children holding hands together and singing a song!

I remained relatively happy with my QF domestic/trans-Tasman experiences until they started to remove airport customer service. In my experience there's an issue with my Q tags, the bag drop kiosks or their baggage belts at least half of the time. I need help more often than not because of their own infrastructure incompetence and long-term failure to invest.

The impact of the most recent wave of issues? I don't avoid QF completely, but half my domestic flying is now on VA (which I avoided totally until this year) and if I have an itinerary I expect will need to be changed, I intentionally avoid QF because I don't have time to spend hours on hold.

I've been fortunate enough not to encounter those issues yet but have no doubt I will. And that's the thing QF misses. Even if IRROPs happens only 15% of the time network wide (and that's being optimistic) having those staff there to deal with it can make a huge difference in someone's mind. I suspect many of us on this forum have encountered IRROPs and it's no fun, it's stressful, often you don't know when you'll be arriving and in some instances how that impacts downstream connecting flights. Having a human agent at the airport you can go up to and resolve such issues in minutes gives the traveller not only peace of mind but also enhances loyalty for the airline since the customer at the end (hopefully) thinks, well at least the airlines got my back. Given the recent cut backs to customer service it seems quite apparent that QF does not have their customers back be it the FoTSG or the Platinum One traveller.

-RooFlyer88

 

[RichardMEL]

In times past it was suggested in these very pages that I worked for QF PR which amused me greatly. Anyone who has endured my waffle over the past 2 or so years would be well aware that couldn't possibly be true. This post included.

I may still be P1 and I have flown a few trips this year with Q and have some more booked. This is true.

However, they are definitely going to lose some of my business. For various reasons that include the poor situation with the call centre (which has not overly affected me personally due to the status, but I have been aghast at the situation) and the mindset displayed by Joyce and others in management. I still feel the front liners are mostly brilliant and under a lot of stress and very little of this is on them. I mean flight crews, CSR's, gate agents, etc.

But as I am looking towards international travel I'm most certainly thinking of airlines like QR or SQ in Premium Cabins (maybe award, potentially paid) and I will fly UA as it is my second major FF program and has been for near 30 years.

I've long advanced having multiple options in air travel both loyalty/FF wise and service wise. I mean let's face it QF J/F pales in comparision to SQ or EK in many respects. Not to say QF is horrible but it's definitely not top tier product wise. Luckily I am in a position to be able to indulge in the odd premium cabin trip on these carriers (unlike many).

When it comes to domestic I've been seriously looking at VA. The product, the now cheaper premium cabin price points(I know domestic J is a bit silly, but if one is talking SC earn then potentially useful, specially with partners to redeem on like SQ).

Status is an interesting one for me. Obviously I have benefited GREATLY from having P1 since 2014. I've found it beneficial at times (but not for a long time due to pandemic and "enhancement" of the great SST) and I'm aware of this. I've also been treated pretty well by partners like AA, CX, EK etc. Same as my UA*G has given me pretty good recognition in Star (but it's a whole different level to OWE of course). Now being able to enjoy some paid premium travel (or award flights) then status is not really a factor.. the lounges, the bag allowance, etc are all included) so that is less of a thing, but there is still a benefit for me to stay loyal in a way. I am fairly close to UA million miler status which would mean lifetime *G, and I have QF LTG so until the whole game changes are both fairly sweet spots and releases the shackles to an extent.

So for me QF will lose some, but not all, of my business. In some respects QF still provides for many of my needs in Oz. I prefer others internationally (as above) and that will govern my strategy more.

Sure, I'm taking advantage of things like DSC to get to say WP faster but it's less of a priority - specially as I get older. I'll never hit LTP so there's far less incentive to blindly keep giving to QF.

I will finish by saying that I very much hope QF turns it around and again can become a great carrier with product and service people want to fly and won't be complaining about and I'll more fully return... (oh wait, is that a bit too PR-ish?! )

 

[RooFlyer]

Before the collapse of Virgin 1.0, I used to mostly travel on virgin domestically and Qantas and OneWorld internationally. Now with virgin going almost belly up I switched to Qantas domestically including during Covid and the few flights I took. Now the virgin is competitive again with a good route route map where I want to go, I’m going to go back to virgin domestic but I’ll be sticking with Qantas and OneWorld for Int’l.

Edit: I book international via a travel agent. Any changes they have to manage.

 

[DC3]

“Has Qantas lost your business …”

No.

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