Strict check in times

[serfty]

... You don't need to be at home to access the internet...

FWIW, TT don't have OLCI.

 

[simongr]

That's surprising - I would have thought that OLCI is a good option for an LCC - except I guess their volume of flights wouldn't support the infrastructure required for OLCI...

 

[medhead]

I was fuming when I saw that last night. The banks are going to make their profit somewhere so now that NAB have dropped fees for people not managing their funds properly they are going to have find a new source of income or squeeze other sources like requiring higher minimum balances for no fees or higher ATM fees for non-bank ATMs. Basically now people who can manage their money will have to subsidise those that can't!

Sorry to go even more OT. But these fees don't just effect people who can't manage their money. They also occur regularly due to the timing of payment processing. Within my personal frame of experience is having a direct debit go at the same time as a paycheck is due in. NAB in particular process the outgoing payments first and then in incoming payments. So it is easy to find that at midnight your account gets overdrawn and then at 12:10am your pay comes in and the account is back in the black. Unfortunately, despite this NAB still take the $30 fee. This is out of the customer's control.

I've also been hit with the fee in the case of one account going over despite the fact that I have a number of other account that have plenty of credit and also signing paperwork agreeing that NAB can access my other accounts to honour payments that would put me in the red. Within my control but I think NAB should not charge me a fee.

All these are reasons that have been given by NAB for killing this fee.

 

[oz_mark]

All these are reasons that have been given by NAB for killing this fee.

Fees got jacked up over time as interest margins got squeezed. Exception fees went from covering enforcement costs to becoming a revenue stream in their own right. Interest margins are widening as competition reduces, so maybe they can really reduce these things knowing they can pick up the loss in increasing interst margins.

 

[medhead]

Fees got jacked up over time as interest margins got squeezed. Exception fees went from covering enforcement costs to becoming a revenue stream in their own right. Interest margins are widening as competition reduces, so maybe they can really reduce these things knowing they can pick up the loss in increasing interst margins.

Yes, of course, just making the point that the fees that NAB have dropped are not solely due to custmers that can't manage their money properly. I should have been more clear.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Within my personal frame of experience is having a direct debit go at the same time as a paycheck is due in. NAB in particular process the outgoing payments first and then in incoming payments. So it is easy to find that at midnight your account gets overdrawn and then at 12:10am your pay comes in and the account is back in the black. Unfortunately, despite this NAB still take the $30 fee. This is out of the customer's control.

Going on the reasoning of other posters in relation to the check-in time - your account going overdrawn it is not outside your control - you could schedule the direct debit one or two days after your pay is due!

The decision of the NAB is a perfect example of an unfair contract clause and perfectly illustrates how the company, not the consumer, should make the change in the event that a contractual clause is unfair.

The NAB has simply jumped before it was pushed. It obviously feels the good publicity generated by this move is the best it can make of a bad situation (ie losing the fee under legislation from next year).

 

[medhead]

Going on the reasoning of other posters in relation to the check-in time - your account going overdrawn it is not outside your control - you could schedule the direct debit one or two days after your pay is due!

I do get that your not serious about this. But that reasoning would fail anyway, because I can't re-schedule a direct debit. e.g. My health insurance is paid by direct debit, has been for years, and the health insurance company schedule that account extraction.

 

[JohnK]

If flying on a 30 hour flight then there is a good chance that you can check through or grab internet access at an airport pretty easily.

You don't need to be at home to access the internet...

Simon there are some people who have not embraced the internet age, and will not do so in this lifetime, so the airlines are being unfair on them. Also not every parent haa a son, or daughter, half way round the world using OLCI for them.

There is such a thing as overkill when it comes to airlines thinking they have improved service by providing OLCI. Cost cutting yes. Improving service no.

 

[anat0l]

Simon there are some people who have not embraced the internet age, and will not do so in this lifetime, so the airlines are being unfair on them. Also not every parent haa a son, or daughter, half way round the world using OLCI for them.

There is such a thing as overkill when it comes to airlines thinking they have improved service by providing OLCI. Cost cutting yes. Improving service no.

I guess I should own up and say that whilst I do OLCI I rarely print my BP. I can imagine there are many people who might be in the same boat, i.e. they have access to an internet ready device (computer, smart phone, iPhone/iPod touch ), but not a printer. Well, I do have a printer at work obviously, and you could save the PDF and walk into a print shop or something (but as if they are common)......

Until they make NZ style mPasses, I wonder what would happen (for other airlines apart from QF) if you turned up at the airport, claimed OLCI but had no BP. (More interesting for an airline like Ryanair....which allegedly charges GBP 80 to do airport check-in).

 

[straitman]

Simon there are some people who have not embraced the internet age, and will not do so in this lifetime, so the airlines are being unfair on them. Also not every parent haa a son, or daughter, half way round the world using OLCI for them.

John, could you please explain the meaning and logic in first sentence :?: I agree with the second but have missed the relevance :!:

There is such a thing as overkill when it comes to airlines thinking they have improved service by providing OLCI. Cost cutting yes. Improving service no.

It will be a service improvement for some but not for all. If it saves them money then it should at least be looked at seriously.

 

[JohnK]

John, could you please explain the meaning and logic in first sentence :?: I agree with the second but have missed the relevance :!:

We are making the simplistic assumption that everyone has access to the internet and even remotely understands that airlines offer OLCI. There are people, believe it or not and regardless of age, who are computer illiterate and simply not interested in the internet age....

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I do get that your not serious about this. But that reasoning would fail anyway, because I can't re-schedule a direct debit. e.g. My health insurance is paid by direct debit, has been for years, and the health insurance company schedule that account extraction.

no no no no no no no.

no.

It is entirely your responsibility to make sure you have adequate funds in your account to cover any direct debit.

If this is a problem you could pay by cash.

When you signed up to the account at the bank you acknowledged the terms and conditions.

These fees and charges by the banks are entirely reasonable (if only because they were spelled out to you in the original terms and conditions which you agreed to).

Why should you be able to violate the contract and not have to suffer the penalties?

What if we all did this?

What if we all expected to be able to break our side of the contract have the bank to drop its fees and charges?

Wanting late fees dropped on accounts will lead to an impossible situation where people will want all sorts of excessive fees dropped like....

...overlimit fees on credit cards,

...interest deducted for payments on credit cards that are only one day late

...massive penalties dropped when an aussie battler wants to swap to a lower interest rate on their mortgage.

 

[Dave Noble]

I generally agree that there is no reason why banks should not charge fees for people who undertake unauthorised overdrafts since the person is just spending the bank's money without permission however the bank should also not allow authorisations to be given to debit/credit card payments requests where that payment would cause an account to overdraw beyond agree limit or exceed credit limit

If the bank permits the overlimit authorisation to be given then it should be classed as an authorised overdraft

Dave

 

[oz_mark]

If the bank permits the overlimit authorisation to be given then it should be classed as an authorised overdraft

I can't speak for other banks, but in the case of Westpac if you make a withdrawal that will cause your account to be overdrawn, the application is treated as a credit application:

If you make a withdrawal transaction in any of the circumstances set out
above, we will treat the transaction as an application by you for credit.

 

[straitman]

Way OT here people :!:

 

[oz_mark]

If this sets a precedent - which I believe will be dangerous - we could see some interesting challenges for all kinds of situations where a contract - big, small, inherent or explicit - is being made and enforced. And don't you think it would be obvious that air fares will fall into that bucket, and LCCs just might be the first ones to get bitten......

The proposed federal laws are largely bringing the rest of the country into line with the existing Victorian unfair contracts legislation, which applied to standard form contracts. This has been in place in Victoria for a couple of years, and there have been a number of changes made in Terms and COnditions. For example the QFF T&C's were updated to comply (CAV Media Releases - cavMarch2008 - 05-03-2008 - QANTAS AGREES TO CHANGES TO FREQUENT FLYER TERMS AND CONDITIONS~)

A year ago, VCAT said they were in discussion with airlines about their standard form contracts. I can't find any information on what became of these discussions. Given that the strict check-in time has survived this long in Victoria suggests that, maybe, it is not the evil term some here portray it to be

 

[Dave Noble]

I can't speak for other banks, but in the case of Westpac if you make a withdrawal that will cause your account to be overdrawn, the application is treated as a credit application:

If they are going to charge $30+ for an unauthorised overdraft, then (imo) they should not enable payment cards to go into debit but decline the authorisation request regardless of how they want to treat it

If they refuse authorisations then that would reduce the risks of overlimits/overdrafts and would avoid unintentional overdrafts

Overall, of course, it is the responsibility of the customer to only spend their own money rather than the bank's

Dave

 

[oz_mark]

If they are going to charge $30+ for an unauthorised overdraft, then (imo) they should not enable payment cards to go into debit but decline the authorisation request regardless of how they want to treat it

If they refuse authorisations then that would reduce the risks of overlimits/overdrafts and would avoid unintentional overdrafts

While not diagreeing, that the banks do allow overdrawn accounts, does potentially avoid embarrasment for their customers. However, the bank does recover its costs by charging interest on the outstanding amount. When exception fees were smallish, there seemed to be less outcry, but it seems they hit a tipping point at which the fees got to a level that customers started getting their backs up.

IIRC ANZ offer the ability to flag accounts that the holder does not wish to go into overdraft.

 

[Dave Noble]

While not diagreeing, that the banks do allow overdrawn accounts, does potentially avoid embarrasment for their customers. However, the bank does recover its costs by charging interest on the outstanding amount.

Interest is one thing and when an overdraft has been agreed with the bank, the charges are fairly reasonable. The high costs come in when people just decide to use the banks money without approval.

If the option is there not to be able to go overdrawn with payments, then if it has been left enabled, can hardly complain if the fees are charged

If there is a risk of briefly dropping under , then get an agreed overdraft facility. The bank I am with charges $10 plus interest for an approved overdraft facility rather than $38/$45 fee plus interest per transaction for just dipping into the bank's wallet

Due to my mistake in funds across accounts, my current account dropped $11 under the level at which banking charges apply; is that my fault or the banks. I hope it is the banks fault and that the monthly charges should be refunded

Surely people are responsible for their own finances and ensuring that they only spend money they have? the media seem to have this idea when castigating the banks that it is somehow ok for people to just choose unilaterally to have an overdraft

Dave

 

[medhead]

no no no no no no no.

no.

It is entirely your responsibility to make sure you have adequate funds in your account to cover any direct debit.

Perhaps you've forgotten the example that I gave, to which you replied. In the case where the direct debit is taken from my account on the same day that my pay is put into that same account; NAB would process all debits first, and then process all desposits second. So for a period of about 5 to 10 minutes the account is overdrawn and the overdraw fee is changed.

The fee is charged solely because of the banks actions and is beyond my control. I have made sure there are adequate funds!