State border closures illegal under the highest law in the country?

[bigbadbyrnes]

Everything is arguable in law, doubly so in constitutional law. This is a matter for the high court.

But here's my opening argument;

Section 92 of the highest law in the country sets out "On the imposition of uniform duties of customs, trade, commerce, and intercourse among the States, whether by means of internal carriage or ocean navigation, shall be absolutely free. "

Per Cole vs Whitfield 1988 "The notions of absolutely free trade and commerce and absolutely free intercourse are quite distinct". Sec92 clearly sets out the law for interstate trade, but also 'intercourse'.

And on the matter of what intercourse means, per Gratwick v Johnson 1945 it's the ability "to pass to and fro among the States without burden, hindrance or restriction".

Border closures, (and arguably although less certainly isolation requirements), are therefore inconsistent with the highest law in the country and should be set aside.

No one is talking about it, any legal eagles here explain? There's no room on the news for this at the moment, but if people start to fed up with the restrictions, it's worth getting them tested in the high court.

edit:

I think this analysis will answer all your questions: States are shutting their borders to stop coronavirus. Is that actually allowed?

Short version: if there are good public health grounds (for example states of emergency), those laws are likely to be held valid.

Could be worth testing if an individual could be proven to be not a thread to public health, but that would be the exception. Thanks MEL_Traveller for sharing the article.

/thread

 

[Pushka]

To be clear SA haven’t had clinically detected community spread. One must be clear communicating...

And anything else is supposition though isn't it. Hypothetically - Does it even exist if it isn't clinically tested and found and people aren't getting sick?

 

[nutwood]

You mustn't have read the book! (Clue: the eyes).

The principal protagonists didn't see the meteors and hence could see them coming....

 

[Pushka]

Sounds a bit Trumpian... too much testing tells us things we don’t like, so don’t test.

Hotel quarantine is going to have positive tests, we need to count these separately from community transmission, provided that the guards don’t get infected like they have in Melbourne.

Sure but it seems to be the way Victoria and possibly NSW have handled those from overseas in Quarantine who don't show symptoms.

 

[antycbr]

Sure but it seems to be the way Victoria and possibly NSW have handled those from overseas in Quarantine who don't show symptoms.

I don’t think that’s going to be the way moving forward. I think everyone is going to get tested, like NZ does.

 

[drron]

I don't think I did miss the point. I thought you were saying in the other thread that people can be asymptomatic. Was every person in those towns tested?

No cases since the virus first appeared in Australia and no cases.hmmm,i think we can be certain there are no asymptomatic cases.

That's pretty much what is happening in SA as of next week. The only caveat being that we can't travel to Victoria without self iso. I think the NsW restrictions May lift.

But watch our infection rate soar when we are getting three flights from overseas (Sth America, India) and a group of Defence personnel from Indonesia. Maybe we shouldnt test them if no symptoms and just keep them for 14 days then let them go.

If any of the pax are from Pakistan there is a chance of a really big jump in numbers.

26 Emirates Passengers Arriving In Hong Kong Test Positive For Coronavirus

26 passengers on an Emirates flight from Dubai to Hong Kong tested positive for coronavirus. Here's what we know about what happened.

onemileatatime.com

 

[Pushka]

I don’t think that’s going to be the way moving forward. I think everyone is going to get tested, like NZ does.

And I am perfectly fine with that and had always assumed but have now been told otherwise, that this has not been happening.

Post automatically merged: Jun 24, 2020

No cases since the virus first appeared in Australia and no cases.hmmm,i think we can be certain there are no asymptomatic cases.



If any of the pax are from Pakistan there is a chance of a really big jump in numbers.

26 Emirates Passengers Arriving In Hong Kong Test Positive For Coronavirus

26 passengers on an Emirates flight from Dubai to Hong Kong tested positive for coronavirus. Here's what we know about what happened.

onemileatatime.com

I know. I just hope the media have their big boy pants on (can I say that anymore?) and not sensationalise. And that the bloody security people are more medically aware than those in Victoria were.

 

[jakeseven7]

And anything else is supposition though isn't it. Hypothetically - Does it even exist if it isn't clinically tested and found and people aren't getting sick?

As no country has eradicated it probably isn't supposition, just reality unfortunately. And depends entirely on the depth and breadth of your testing regime, which again isn't enough to pick up asymptomatic carriers (and will never be enough, because its not possible to test the entire population)

 

[drron]

The extra problem with testing asymptomatic people is that you expect the positive rate to be a lot lower than testing symptomatic patients.
That means if you test 100 people and only 1 person is genuinely positive and you use a test that has a 99% accuracy then 50% of the positive tests will be false positives on average.

 

[bigbadbyrnes]

The extra problem with testing asymptomatic people is that you expect the positive rate to be a lot lower than testing symptomatic patients.
That means if you test 100 people and only 1 person is genuinely positive and you use a test that has a 99% accuracy then 50% of the positive tests will be false positives on average.

Given the false positive rate, I found it suspicious that in the 18,500 tests in WA of asymptomatic people, zero positives returned. I would have expected a couple of false positives which required re-testing (and quarantine until confirmed clear).

As expected from expanded community testing in Melb, another 21 cases identified. Hopefully they get it back under control soon - it looks like they're taking every measure to do so.

 

[Gremlin]

You missed the point.The 3 places I mentioned were in fact closed off by the 50km restriction on travel.no one could go there and any visitor would stick out like a sore thumb.Almost certainly dobbed in and not served as otherwise the locals might lose their relative freedom.
Thargomindah-pop -270.
Birdsville-140.
Toompine-2 but when we visited told about 30 on properties used it as their local pub.It is 78 Km to Quilpie and just short of 200Km to Thargomindah the 2 closest towns.

I have a relative who lives a couple of hours drive out from Mt Isa. My understanding was that the 50km restriction applied only to metropolitan, rural and regional residents. Remote had their own geographic constraints which included a much larger radius of travel. After all, there are properties out there where 50km wouldn't get you to your next door neighbour.

 

[Gremlin]

In her press conference this morning, Gladys was repeatedly asked whether she would consider closing the border to Vic. In a shift from her previous statements, she didn't outright squash the idea. She said that "[she] didn't want it to come to that" and "the borders have remained open and [she'd] like that to continue".

It's obviously a difficult situation politically to navigate, but she spent some time today building herself a ladder to climb down if it's subsequently required.

 

[moa999]

provided that the guards don’t get infected like they have in Melbourne.

And you've also got to watch airport staff, transport, hotel check-in etc - not just security.

 

[nutwood]

And you've also got to watch airport staff, transport, hotel check-in etc - not just security.

Airport staff are the big one for me. Leaving Tasmania, I have little choice but to pass through Melbourne. Last trip, I picked up a car at Melbourne airport and didn't open the windows till I got to SA! Next trip, I fly to Sydney (via Melbourne airport), collect a car and end up back at Melbourne airport.
There's no avoiding the place and I just hope they have systems in place and working correctly!

 

[PineappleSkip]

I have a relative who lives a couple of hours drive out from Mt Isa. My understanding was that the 50km restriction applied only to metropolitan, rural and regional residents. Remote had their own geographic constraints which included a much larger radius of travel. After all, there are properties out there where 50km wouldn't get you to your next door neighbour.

We are now on about the seventh iteration of Qld’s movement and gathering directions, which were very unclear at first, and the spin has sometimes exceeded the text of the directions. This has resulted in lots of confusion along the way.

The 50km limit applied only to recreational travel, as defined, which was going for a drive or similar. And it applied in the same way irrespective of location. However it didn’t restrict going to the shop/town for supplies, etc. In mid May they extended the ‘go for a drive’ limit to 150k, and 500k for Outback residents, and at the beginning of this month they abolished the 150k/500k limits altogether.

The exception is the declared zones, for which the rules about who can go where are still arcane. If you live in one of those, e.g. in Cooktown and Burketown, you are restricted in where you can go, with each declared zone having its own ‘declared travel zone’, and there are restrictions on who can come in, must quarantine, etc. This means if you live in Mt Isa, you can drive without restriction to Normanton or Townsville but not Burketown, but if you live in Burketown, you can drive to Normanton or Mount Isa but not to Townsville.

Clear as mud, hey?

cheers skip

 

[p--and--t]

Sounds a bit Trumpian... too much testing tells us things we don’t like, so don’t test.

Hotel quarantine is going to have positive tests, we need to count these separately from community transmission, provided that the guards don’t get infected like they have in Melbourne.

Beat me to the same answer

 

[Anna]

The Federal Court trial will be on 13 and 14 July. It looks like it will be held before Rangiah J in Brisbane.

For eager internet scouters, here is where you can find Federal Court info - Search:Disclaimer

The orders from the Fed Ct directions hearing on 22 June are here - https://www.comcourts.gov.au/file/Federal/P/QUD183/2020/3892462/event/30348421/document/1624028

 

[Anna]

@jakeseven said "To be clear SA haven’t had clinically detected community spread. One must be clear communicating"

To be clear, nobody has caught covid19 locally in SA since at least 22 April, possibly earlier. Are you seriously suggesting that there are asymptomatic super-spreaders at large in the SA community, quietly infecting other people but fortuitously never infecting anyone who subsequently tests positive? What are they waiting for, Bill Gates to activate 5G and his covert plan to take over the world?

 

[drron]

The Federal Court trial will be on 13 and 14 July. It looks like it will be held before Rangiah J in Brisbane.

For eager internet scouters, here is where you can find Federal Court info - Search:Disclaimer

The orders from the Fed Ct directions hearing on 22 June are here - https://www.comcourts.gov.au/file/Federal/P/QUD183/2020/3892462/event/30348421/document/1624028

Very interesting.I see some of the Expert opinions supporting the WA government were due to be lodged yesterday.When will those be made public?

I also note they have expert opinion from an ANU Professor whose research studies are mainly in Ebola and sexual violence in indigenous communities in Australia and PNG.I am supposing the Commonwealth wil have an expert opinion from Prof.Kelly one of the Deputy Commonwealth CMOs whose expertise is in influenza research.He is also at ANU.

 

[jakeseven7]

@jakeseven said "To be clear SA haven’t had clinically detected community spread. One must be clear communicating"

To be clear, nobody has caught covid19 locally in SA since at least 22 April, possibly earlier. Are you seriously suggesting that there are asymptomatic super-spreaders at large in the SA community, quietly infecting other people but fortuitously never infecting anyone who subsequently tests positive? What are they waiting for, Bill Gates to activate 5G and his covert plan to take over the world?

OK, Calm down. Who said there were super spreaders?

Are you worried about 5G? You shouldn’t be, there’s no link between covid and the 5G rollout. I’m not even sure SA has 5G yet anyway so you are probably safe

 

[Pushka]

Are you worried about 5G? You shouldn’t be, there’s no link between covid and the 5G rollout. I’m not even sure SA has 5G yet anyway so you are probably safe

Knowing Anna I'm sure that 5G is the thing she most dreads as far as Covid is concerned.