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Single flight #, multiple sectors, multiple boarding passes

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JohnK

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Anyone know what happens with SC's and FF points when you are travelling on single flight # with multiple sectors but have multiple boarding passes. Do you get SC's and FF points for each sector as opposed to the single flight?

A classic example is BNE-BLT return. The route is BNE-BLT-EMD-BNE. The sectors BNE-BLT and BLT-EMD are the same flight # and aircraft takes off 10 minutes after landing. EMD-BNE is a different flight # and possibly a different aircraft although this is not relevant.

If you purchase 2 one-way tickets, which you do these days with QF, BNE-BLT and BLT-EMD-BNE then in theory this turns it into 3 sectors (BNE-BLT, BLT-EMD and EMD-BNE) and should therefore get 30SC's and 3,000 FF points (3 x 1,000 point minimum) even though BNE-BLT-EMD is a single flight #. There is something in the QFF rules about single flight #'s but not sure that it applies if you have multiple boarding passes.

I suppose the same could be said if travelling SYD-SIN-LHR on the same flight but purchased the 2 sectors seperately.
 

Dave Noble

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Rule 9.3.3 of the T&Cs does cover this. If you travel from A-B-C on a single flight number, you are only eligable for the A-C points and miles. Whether you have multiple boarding passes or not, the eligability is the same, so in the example of BLT-EMD-BNE , although you have 2 boarding passes and have paid for it separately, you are eligable for the BNT-BNE flight

9.3.3 Points for travel on Eligible Flights are calculated on the distance between the origin and destination according to the Great Circle distance - the shortest route between two points on the surface of the globe - not the actual distance flown. On multiple-stop through flights (connecting flights which do not involve a change of flight number and which do not involve a Stopover), Members will earn Points for the non-stop distance travelled between origin and destination. On connecting flights which involve a change of flight number or a Stopover regardless of whether there is a change of flight number, Points are earned for each Flight Segment.

Dave
 

Kiwi Flyer

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I think JohnK is asking whether the computers are clever enough to credit according to the rules if separate coupons/tickets despite same flight number, or the higher number.
 

NM

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Kiwi Flyer said:
I think JohnK is asking whether the computers are clever enough to credit according to the rules if separate coupons/tickets despite same flight number, or the higher number.
The computer credits according to the ticket purchased, not the boarding passes issued. So if your ticket states BNE-EMD then that is what credits.
 

Johan

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So, if I am flying to NY, is it better (from a mileage accumulation perspective) to make sure that I fly SYD - LAX - NYC on different flight numbers on QF/AA?

Alternatively, if I am doing the Platinum Challenge, is it wise to fly a domestic flight, and then fly SYD-LAX on one AA flight number to maximise the bonus miles? (I know this is slightly different from John's question, but it is also a bit related),
 

NM

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Johan said:
So, if I am flying to NY, is it better (from a mileage accumulation perspective) to make sure that I fly SYD - LAX - NYC on different flight numbers on QF/AA?
You will earn more SCs if you break it into multiple sectors on the ticket. But, you will also pay two fuel fines as it is now two segments. And if its a change to the aircraft then you also risk a misconnect.

And you may find that the QF system will not permit the sale of QF107 SYD-LAX followed immediately by QF107 LAX-JFK on the same ticket.

I travelled QF10 LHR-SIN-MEL-SYD last year as part of a DONE4. The TA would not sell me that routing as connecting flights. She said the system would only permit her to sell it ias QF10 LHR-MEL-SYD or QF10 LHR-SIN-SYD. So I had her book QF10 LHR-SIN with a 1 day stopover, followed by QF10 SIN-MEL with a 1 day stopover, followed by QF10 MEL-SYD. Then after travel had commenced, I changed the dates for the SIN-MEL and MEL-SYD to be connecting flights, since you can make unlimited dtae changes on a DONE4 fare.

It all credits as individual sectors for SC and QF FF points. And I managed to upgrade each of those segments using a combination of points and UCs.
 

Dave Noble

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Johan said:
So, if I am flying to NY, is it better (from a mileage accumulation perspective) to make sure that I fly SYD - LAX - NYC on different flight numbers on QF/AA?

Alternatively, if I am doing the Platinum Challenge, is it wise to fly a domestic flight, and then fly SYD-LAX on one AA flight number to maximise the bonus miles? (I know this is slightly different from John's question, but it is also a bit related),
(Assuming economy class )

if stealing candy, then do an eligable domestic flight and then book SYD-LAX as a single flight sector on AA7365 ( not on QF108) . That will ensure you get the most miles. This way the SYD-JFK will be ensured to count as a single flight and so be the flight which completes the challenge ( assuming on a 1pt per mile fare basis ) and you get a 9000 bonus. If you change flight numbers , then only the LAX-JFK will get a bonus.

If you were able to book SYD-LAX-JFK on AA7365, it should count as a single flight, but to be certain, I would book the single sector though in this case it is a moot point. The MCT at LAX is 2 hours and QF107 arrives and departs in 1hr 50 minutes so is not permitted to be booked as 2 sectors

Dave
 

JohnK

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NM said:
Kiwi Flyer said:
I think JohnK is asking whether the computers are clever enough to credit according to the rules if separate coupons/tickets despite same flight number, or the higher number.
The computer credits according to the ticket purchased, not the boarding passes issued. So if your ticket states BNE-EMD then that is what credits.
I am thinking purely from a SC run perspective.

The tickets purchased from QF website would be BNE-BLT ($54 special) and BLT-EMD-BNE ($109 special).

Unfortunately there is only one BNE-BLT flight per day and this continues to EMD with same flight # and there is I think 2 EMD-BNE flights per day.

I don't want to stay in BLT overnight as it defeats the SC run. So based on what I purchase, as per above, am I to expect 30SC's and 3,000 FF points? I cannot see how the computer would detect that it is the one flight as I purchase 2 different tickets!
 

Kiwi Flyer

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JohnK said:
NM said:
Kiwi Flyer said:
I think JohnK is asking whether the computers are clever enough to credit according to the rules if separate coupons/tickets despite same flight number, or the higher number.
The computer credits according to the ticket purchased, not the boarding passes issued. So if your ticket states BNE-EMD then that is what credits.
I am thinking purely from a SC run perspective.
If QF computer checks/doesnt check you can bet it will be the same for both points and SCs.

JohnK said:
I don't want to stay in BLT overnight as it defeats the SC run. So based on what I purchase, as per above, am I to expect 30SC's and 3,000 FF points? I cannot see how the computer would detect that it is the one flight as I purchase 2 different tickets!
The computer is programmed to detect all sorts of things. For example it is well documented that if you fly the same route more than once on the same day you need to contact QFF to get manual credit of points and SCs - since the computer detects the 2 flights between same origin & destination and assumes one is in error.

That said I think there is a chance you would get 3000 points and 30 SCs, but I wouldnt count on it happening, nor would I contact QFF to complain since the rules are fairly clear. YMMV (literally!)
 

Dave Noble

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JohnK said:
I don't want to stay in BLT overnight as it defeats the SC run. So based on what I purchase, as per above, am I to expect 30SC's and 3,000 FF points? I cannot see how the computer would detect that it is the one flight as I purchase 2 different tickets!
You may be ok, but as Kiwi points out the system isnt completely stupid and may well detect the continuation element and if it does you have no recourse to complain. If you decide to do it then only bank on getting what you are entitled and if you get the 3000 points then that's a bonus

Dave
 

oz_mark

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Re: Single flight #, multiple sectors, multiple boarding pas

JohnK said:
A classic example is BNE-BLT return. The route is BNE-BLT-EMD-BNE. The sectors BNE-BLT and BLT-EMD are the same flight # and aircraft takes off 10 minutes after landing. EMD-BNE is a different flight # and possibly a different aircraft although this is not relevant.
For this to work, you are going to need to get your boarding passes back in BNE, and it is possible that the flights will get linked back together at that point. I can't see you would have to time to get off the plane, check-in and then get back on.
 

NM

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JohnK said:
I am thinking purely from a SC run perspective.

The tickets purchased from QF website would be BNE-BLT ($54 special) and BLT-EMD-BNE ($109 special).

Unfortunately there is only one BNE-BLT flight per day and this continues to EMD with same flight # and there is I think 2 EMD-BNE flights per day.

I don't want to stay in BLT overnight as it defeats the SC run. So based on what I purchase, as per above, am I to expect 30SC's and 3,000 FF points? I cannot see how the computer would detect that it is the one flight as I purchase 2 different tickets!
If purchased on-line online from QF web site, this would be two separate tickets, one being BNE-BLT and the second being BLT-EMD-BNE. So yes, i would expect you to get 10 SCs for the first and then 2 x 10 SCs for the second. As you will likely use Quick Check for check-in and not have any bags to check-in, and you know the aircraft operating BLT-EMD and EMD-BNE are the same aircraft and hence not issue with misconnects, I don't see any problems with the earning rate.
 

JohnK

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I am confused as to what would happen in reality.

Has anyone ever done the BNE-GLT-ROK-MKY-TSV route on the same flight # but with each sector purchased seperately?

Going back to the SYD-SIN-LHR example. I can purchase a discount economy ticket SYD-SIN-SYD flying BA metal from QF or BA website in Australia and a WT+ ticket SIN-LHR-SIN again flying BA metal (sorry it is obvious) from QF or BA website in Singapore. They would be the same flight SYD-SIN-LHR without a transit in SIN. There is nothing stopping me from making this booking. I would expect that I would get 4 sectors credited seperately?

What if I did the first sector as an award ticket and paid for the second sector. Same flight #, but the rules state that you don't get SC's and FF points for award tickets. Does this mean I don't get the SC's and FF points for the paid sector? If I paid for the 2 sectors seperately then I should get SC's and FF points credited seperately? The trigger should be the seperate bookings.

I know it is a difficult question and I am surprised that this situation has not occurred to anyone on this site. I really don't want to ring QF to get an explanation. Anything can happen there. But by the same token I don't want to be the guinea pig to find out what happens in reality.

Anyway thanks for all your input.
 

oz_mark

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Kiwi Flyer said:
The computer is programmed to detect all sorts of things. For example it is well documented that if you fly the same route more than once on the same day you need to contact QFF to get manual credit of points and SCs - since the computer detects the 2 flights between same origin & destination and assumes one is in error.

That said I think there is a chance you would get 3000 points and 30 SCs, but I wouldnt count on it happening, nor would I contact QFF to complain since the rules are fairly clear. YMMV (literally!)
If it can detect you flying the same route twice in a day, there is a pretty good chance that it will be able to finding flying on the same flight number twice a day. What it would do about it is quite another matter.
 

NM

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JohnK said:
I am confused as to what would happen in reality.

Has anyone ever done the BNE-GLT-ROK-MKY-TSV route on the same flight # but with each sector purchased seperately?
I have done QF10 LHR-SIN, followed by QF10 SIN-MEL, followed by QF10 MEL-SYD and had it credit as three flights as it was three segments of my DONE4 itinerary. All were connections on the same aircraft. I was issued with three different boarding passes when I checked-in at Flight Connections at LHR, having started the journey at FRA where my bags were checked to BNE (connected QF25 SYD-BNE).
 

JohnK

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NM said:
If purchased on-line online from QF web site, this would be two separate tickets, one being BNE-BLT and the second being BLT-EMD-BNE. So yes, i would expect you to get 10 SCs for the first and then 2 x 10 SCs for the second. As you will likely use Quick Check for check-in and not have any bags to check-in, and you know the aircraft operating BLT-EMD and EMD-BNE are the same aircraft and hence not issue with misconnects, I don't see any problems with the earning rate.
From what I saw on the QF website there is the possibility of a transit of around 3.5 hours in EMD before heading back to BNE.
 

Dave Noble

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JohnK said:
I know it is a difficult question and I am surprised that this situation has not occurred to anyone on this site. I really don't want to ring QF to get an explanation. Anything can happen there. But by the same token I don't want to be the guinea pig to find out what happens in reality.
Personally, I would just avoid the risk of it happening and take different flights at SIN. Given that BA and QF both operate to LHR at approximately the same time, why not just make life easy and not take the same flight the whole way. If changing classes en-route ( e.g. award to paid , economy to business ) then my experience is that it will credit separately.

Dave
 

JohnK

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Dave Noble said:
Personally, I would just avoid the risk of it happening and take different flights at SIN. Given that BA and QF both operate to LHR at approximately the same time, why not just make life easy and not take the same flight the whole way. If changing classes en-route ( e.g. award to paid , economy to business ) then my experience is that it will credit separately.
Yes I can understand that you can change carriers or even cabins for the seperate sectors.

My main concern was with BNE-BLT-EMD-BNE. I really don't want to overnight in the middle of nowhere in BLT and it is very good SC's and FF points return for Australia. I guess I will have to take the risk to find out how the rules are interpreted in this case.
 

Damien

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JohnK said:
My main concern was with BNE-BLT-EMD-BNE. I really don't want to overnight in the middle of nowhere in BLT and it is very good SC's and FF points return for Australia. I guess I will have to take the risk to find out how the rules are interpreted in this case.
Come on! BLT has a big collection of flags and a "must see" Japanese garden. What's not to love? :roll:
 

Dave Noble

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I think that you may hit another problem; since there are only 10 minutes between arrival and departure , it does not seem to be a valid connection when done individually and you are v likely to find that QF will not allow it even on 2 separate tickets ( same as the issue with SYD-JFK vs SYD-LAX-JFK ) and will be contacting you to change it

Dave
 
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