Should I stay or should I go (EuroZone)

[marki]

Europe’s common currency and the Schengen passport-free zone are the European Union’s most ambitious undertakings. Not coincidentally, they are also the two European projects that have most called into question the future of the bloc. This has been a hot topic.

[FONT=Chronicle SSm, serif]Schengen, born in 1995, never had to cope with the sudden numbers of external refugees now coming into the bloc—an estimated 500,000 since the start of the year. The arrangements that accompanied it—the so-called Dublin regulation—placed an overwhelming burden on the countries where the migrants entered.[/FONT]

[FONT=Chronicle SSm, serif]Should we be worried ? Are these all real refugees or economic migrants? Will this affect our travel in the near future to Europe? [/FONT]

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Should we be worried ? Are these all real refugees or economic migrants? Will this affect our travel in the near future to Europe?

Worried? No.

All 'real' refugees? Who knows, but I'd say with almost 100 per cent certainty 'probably not'.

Some (many) will use the opportunity to enter Europe as 'economic' refugees on the back of those genuinely fleeing the situation in their home country.

 

[marki]

Worried? No. 'real' refugees...................with almost 100 per cent certainty 'probably not'.

........................

I found this today "According to the U.N. refugee agency, 53% of the migrants are from Syria, 14% from Afghanistan, 7% from Eritrea, and 3% each from Pakistan, Nigeria, Iraq and Somalia. Seventy-two percent are men, only 13% women and 15% children. Not all are fleeing war. Some are fleeing poverty. Not all but the majority are Muslim."

Is there anyone travelling out there at the moment affected by this "Eurozone" Migration? Please write your thoughts how and if it's affecting you on your travels?

 

[moa999]

I think party of the problem is the destination shopping - eg. Wanting to go Germany or Sweden only because they get PR and those countries are more generous to the migrants as well as religiously tolerant.

Somewhat similar in our region where countries like Indonesia tolerate the migrants but very rarely give PR

This is an interesting read.. Particularly the permanent resettlement numbers
www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Par...ry_Library/pubs/rp/rp1415/RefugeeResettlement

 

[amaroo]

Remember the Indo FM saying we should take the "sugar off the table" ? Looks like Europe is going to learn the same lesson courtesy of the Germans.

Interesting to see that the father of the boy/family that died on a Turkey Beach has been accused as a people smuggler Aylan Kurdi's father is a people smuggler, woman claims

 

[KitKat]

I am not worried

I accept that this may change the feel of Europe but it will not change my travel plans unless my perception of safety changes...

Who does not want a better life? better chance in life? We are all immigrants of one sort or other (or descendants of immigrants) searching for a better life.....

 

[marki]

Ten thousand refugees is one thing; 10 million is another. Somewhere between those extremes is a breaking point. At which the political system will no longer carry out the legal mandate.
To pretend that this isn’t true is to invite trouble.
Europe seems much closer to a breaking point than Brussels or Berlin would like to admit.

 

[amaroo]

[video=youtube;LPjzfGChGlE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE[/video]

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Ten thousand refugees is one thing; 10 million is another. Somewhere between those extremes is a breaking point. At which the political system will no longer carry out the legal mandate.
To pretend that this isn’t true is to invite trouble.
Europe seems much closer to a breaking point than Brussels or Berlin would like to admit.

Europe is not close to breaking point. There won't be an end to Europe.

There have been several waves of migration - for example when the EU was expanded to Eastern Europe and free movement was theoretically allowed. or when East Germany was brought back into the west.

It takes time to accommodate new arrivals. But not end of life as we know it.

Calais has been a hot-spot for ages. There have been refugees making their way across the Med and into Italy for a long time (although maybe not in these numbers).

But governments cope. Law and order is maintained.

 

[marki]

Rules that work for Germany and Sweden can produce uncontrollable backlashes in other parts of Europe.
Add to this the continuing budgetary and welfare crises and the mass youth unemployment in many Eurozone economies, and it is easy to envision a point at which Europe’s capacity to absorb refugees reaches a ceiling.
Eastern Europe was an active participant in WW2 the killing never stopped in 1945 it continued(Thanks to Stalin and NKVD). So for such countries with relatively young democracies their focus are citizens and culture. Western Europe has had time and has not been Bankrupt for most of it's post war-Era.

 

[medhead]

The 2015 estimate of EU population is 508 million. I fail to see how 10 million more, less than 2%, is going to make europe disintegrate. The population of geographic europe is 700 million.

10 million might sound scary to isolated views based on Australia with 24 million people. Still I have to wonder what this thread is even about.

 

[legroom]

It takes time to accommodate new arrivals. But not end of life as we know it.

.

I genuinely hope you're correct.

Accommodation implies tolerance.

Now, as we all know, that - i.e. tolerance - must be reciprocated.

Somewhere sometime ago in Europe a movie director named Van Gogh ......

 

[marki]

Welcome to Australia Syrian refugees! Some useful phrases to help you fit in | afr.com

[h=1]Welcome to Australia Syrian refugees! Some useful phrases to help you fit in[/h]

 

[medhead]

[video=youtube;LPjzfGChGlE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE[/video]

Yep, and a few years ago. Possibly last century it was said that world poverty could be "fixed" with no more than a few percent of the US defence budget. That fix being clean water, and shelter, IIRC.

 

[Kaiser]

I know this is a travel centric forum, but instead of pondering "How is this going to affect my travel/holidays?" perhaps we should be asking "What is this migration a greater symptom of?" I believe what we are witnessing is an acceleration of mass migration due to a multitude of factors:

-Economic stress due to continued destabilisation of governments
-Climate change / drought
-Widening gap between the rich and the poor >> resentment
-A complex history of ethnic and religious tensions

I don't believe an open door policy was the smartest move by Germany as it has almost certainly created an increased rush of economic migrants who are going to put a massive strain on the welfare system of Germany given current unemployment levels. As is always the case, the media will happily blow up both extremes of the argument with misinformation to spread fear - however the security risk is a legitimate concern. Putting the risk of importing people with a fondness for violence aside - even normal populations can turn sour when there is rampant unemployment, housing shortages and a clash of widely differing cultural values.

Additionally, when you looks at the number of immigrants entering as a percentage of overall population - it doesn't seem that bad. However when you concentrated that number over an extremely short time period, in an uncontrolled fashion - problems are inevitable.
Time will tell how these events change the make up of European society and culture. It was only in 2010 that Angela Merkel had proclaimed that German multiculturalism had "utterly failed" and that immigrants needed to put more effort into integrating into society.
I find it laughable that the US can only commit to accepting 10,000 of these refugees - considering the role it has played in the region.

I think we are only going to witness more and more migration and tension given the broken economy model, predictions of population growth, climate patterns and sea levels over the next century. The majority of people have been lulled into complacency and won't partake in any action for change, or feel helpless to do anything given most of the country is in the control of those only seeking to quench their insatiable thirst for power and wealth.

 

[kelvedon]

Germany has now reintroduced border controls with Austria, and suspended trains between the two countries.
Migrant crisis: Germany to start temporary border controls - BBC News

 

[SeatBackForward]

They tukkk arrr Jobs

 

[amaroo]

Germany has now reintroduced border controls with Austria, and suspended trains between the two countries.
Migrant crisis: Germany to start temporary border controls - BBC News

LOL that didn't take long...

 

[marki]

LOL that didn't take long...

Not really laughing after seeing this ABC website Al Qaeda chief urging lone wolf attacks specifically calling young muslim men.
Al Qaeda chief Ayman al-Zawahri urges lone wolf attacks in the West in new audio recording - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

 

[amaroo]

Not really laughing after seeing this ABC website Al Qaeda chief urging lone wolf attacks specifically calling young muslim men.

Indeed. One wonders how Merkel thought this was going to end

Looks like it's the Germans that want to decide who gets to be the "lucky" host country...

Germany is to introduce temporary controls on its border with Austria to cope with the influx of migrants, the interior minister has said.
Thomas de Maiziere said refugees could "not choose" their host countries and called on other EU states to do more