Should business class be buyer beware?

[DJVA]

Having flown both Virgin pretend J E190 and Qantas 737-400 J, there is no comparison between the two - given the choice, I will pick Qantas 100% of the time.

Virgin, whilst getting better, still remain more inconsistent in service delivery than Qantas.

I'll be interested in what you say once they've refitted the J in the E190s!

 

[pythonisman]

Sounds terrible!
I've seen the trolley used more than not, but it hasn't looked that unstable. Out of interest, my J flight SYDOOL on Thursday night (8 pax, 6 eating) was all served individually, CM handing every pax their order and thanking them by name which was a nice touch. I preferred it to the trolley by far.

 

[KCMil]

Sounds terrible!
I've seen the trolley used more than not, but it hasn't looked that unstable. Out of interest, my J flight SYDOOL on Thursday night (8 pax, 6 eating) was all served individually, CM handing every pax their order and thanking them by name which was a nice touch. I preferred it to the trolley by far.

Fact still remains that crew who servce more than 3 without the trolley are not following the requirements laid down for them. This is another example of the lack of consistancy in the product offered with each CS doing what "they" see as the right thing. I'm seeing this lead to so many of the complaints on here by people about the inconsistant J and Y product of VA.

 

[eastwest101]

This warning ONLY comes up on multi-sector flights where one of the sectors isn't sold as J (eg MEL-PER-KTA, eg MEL-SYD-BNK) - if you book PER-KTA or SYD-BNK directly you cannot buy J, but you can with a multi sector booking. This now matches the way Qantas do it.

Virgin will not warn you about pretend J E190 flights (hard product 2 Y seats, soft product J) as they consider them J. They aren't J. It still remains caveat emptor with regards to E190s until the refit is completed.

Having flown both Virgin pretend J E190 and Qantas 737-400 J, there is no comparison between the two - given the choice, I will pick Qantas 100% of the time.

Virgin, whilst getting better, still remain more inconsistent in service delivery than Qantas.

I agree with your points that you make, perhaps its just coincidence but the two most anomalously 'pretend' J products sold as J in the australian domestic market are being replaced or retired at the moment i.e. the old PE fitout on VA E190's and the older QF B734. But the refits and retirements are very slow processes and the mix of old PE configured E190's with new 1+2 J class E190's will make it such a lottery as to be just not worth the risk and money spent for some people.

I agree with your preference of the old QF 734 J class over the old PE VA E190 any day (if no other choice - which is often the case in some places and times).

 

[JohnK]

Since when was a QF 767 luxury?

That statement was made in comparison to the 737. I do not like single aisle aircraft.

What I don't understand is once you have a J ticket on DJ it's fully flexible. Why didn't you just change flights when you saw the E190 seat plan??

Not possible.

 

[Noob]

It's interesting how much preferences vary, for the golden triangle I prefer single aisle (either airline VA/QF) because boarding & deplaning is quicker than a 220+ seat wide body.

My attraction to single aisle aircraft is further enhanced due to new enhancements like the Boeing sky interior which make the cabin feel far more spacious to me.

For little hops I also like smaller jets like the E190, for even quicker boarding/deplaning & in economy, wider seats with the 2-2 arrangement. I think when the reconfigurations are completed on the E-190 fleet, I'd prefer J on one over a 737 or a widebody for the 'triangle'.

Simply put, it's a short flight so I don't want to be held up at either end

 

[medhead]

I can't believe that service off or on a trolley is considered any part of the product. It's like saying variation in arming the door is a sign of inconsistent product. Someone is draw their bow too far. Use or not of a trolley has absolutely nothing to do with product.

IME virgin offer a very consistent soft product on board unlike qantas. I assume that anyone who says otherwise has very little time on virgin flights.


Sent from the Throne

 

[MichaelD]

IME virgin offer a very consistent soft product on board unlike qantas. I assume that anyone who says otherwise has very little time on virgin flights.

I have to disagree with you. I find Virgin's soft product still more inconsistent than Qantas' offering...but Virgin is getting better and more consistent as time goes on. It is entirely dependent on the CSM in my experience.

(Qantas 3600+ SCs per year, DJ 2400 SCs per year).

 

[medhead]

And my experience is that the virgin crew act and behave the same on every flight whereas I get good and bad qantas crew week to week.


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[MichaelD]

And my experience is that the virgin crew act and behave the same on every flight whereas I get good and bad qantas crew week to week.

J or Y?

Had the perfect Virgin example just 2 weeks ago MEL-CNS-MEL (in J).

MEL-CNS had the giggling girlie routine for the duration. [Wife commented on why I still bothered with Virgin as they hadn't improved since her last trip].
On the return, they couldn't do enough for us. [Wife was so impressed she sent positive feedback to Virgin complimenting the CSM].

I contrast this to Qantas J where I have not been able to fault a Qantas crew in over 12 months.

 

[JohnK]

Did you send off your gripes to VA John?

Interested in the response..

I have sent off a very scathing letter. I did not hold back at all. Waiting on a response. I shall let you know what transpires....

 

[fersea]

So in summary, a customer has received exactly what was described on Virgin's website (except maybe a lesser standard meal). Customer did not see that part of website that acurately described what would be provided and was not happy with what was received. Customer has a different interpretation of the term "business class" to the airline. There is no universal description of "business class". Thread threatened to degenerate into petty insults but was avoided.

Might save others from reading 10 pages like I did.

 

[JohnK]

So in summary, a customer has received exactly what was described on Virgin's website (except maybe a lesser standard meal).

And that is an issue for you?

I paid for business class and got economy. I don't care how the airline describes the product and it is not my responsibility to research.

I am going to be nice to you but you have now insulted me a number of times in this thread. Please leave this thread and go and insult others....

 

[fersea]

And that is an issue for you?

I paid for business class and got economy. I don't care how the airline describes the product and it is not my responsibility to research.

I am going to be nice to you but you have now insulted me a number of times in this thread. Please leave this thread and go and insult others....

It is my first post on the thread!!! I am not planning on going and insulting you or anyone else on other thread or this one for that matter.

My point is that there is no universal description of "business class", as others have said, two seats is quite common on other airlines around the world. The debate is what you consider business class and what Virgin describe as business class are two different things in this case. Now I am not denying that you might have been justified in being disappointed but Virgin haven't made their description of business class in this case a secret.

It is not right to say that the seat is in Economy, because it is in what Virgin consider business class.

As to whether Virgin should have "business class" on this plane, that is a corporate decision for them. Virgin obviously believe there is a market for that type of business class and describe it on their website.

 

[eastwest101]

As to whether Virgin should have "business class" on this plane, that is a corporate decision for them. Virgin obviously believe there is a market for that type of business class and describe it on their website.

To be more accurate - due to historical reasons of having E190s with PE seating then VA were actually trying to pass off their PE seats with J meals and service as their business class on E190 aircraft. Whilst I agree that the product wasn't hidden, JohnK's expectactions were a lot higher than what he got, and I can only assume that he has complained for this reason, in my own opinion I think the take-away from this is to alert people about exactly what they are getting so they can make more informed choices and avoid dissapointment. VA are refitting their J class cabins in E190's so that tells us that VA themselves see the old PE configuration on the E190s as a problem - for VA and for some of their customers.

 

[straitman]

Might save others from reading 10 pages like I did.

might I suggest you change your setup as you should only be on page three.




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[bullerdude]

My point is that there is no universal description of "business class", as others have said, two seats is quite common on other airlines around the world. The debate is what you consider business class and what Virgin describe as business class are two different things in this case. Now I am not denying that you might have been justified in being disappointed but Virgin haven't made their description of business class in this case a secret.

It is not right to say that the seat is in Economy, because it is in what Virgin consider business class.

As to whether Virgin should have "business class" on this plane, that is a corporate decision for them. Virgin obviously believe there is a market for that type of business class and describe it on their website.

I strongly disagree with your statement.

The so called business-class on the E190 jet does not meet what the market currently expects of business class in the Australia market. This is why VA are currently refitting the planes with a newer more comfortable business class that meets the markets (and consumers) expectations.

 

[mannej]

I was always taught that ignorance is never an excuse, so why should it be any different here, if there was a warning on the booking site.

If not, then questions should be asked of virgin.


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[straitman]

I strongly disagree with your statement.

The so called business-class on the E190 jet does not meet what the market currently expects of business class in the Australia market. This is why VA are currently refitting the planes with a newer more comfortable business class that meets the markets (and consumers) expectations.

..... and I disagree with your disagreement :!:

There is no standard and you are assuming as to 'what the market currently expects'. We travelled on an E190 in May with some US FT friends and they thought the offering was quite good. Having said that they also agreed that the proposed change would be an improvement and that is something that we all agree on.




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[bullerdude]

..... and I disagree with your disagreement :!:

There is no standard and you are assuming as to 'what the market currently expects'. We travelled on an E190 in May with some US FT friends and they thought the offering was quite good. Having said that they also agreed that the proposed change would be an improvement and that is something that we all agree on.




Sent from AFF Mobile Edition

Well we are all entitled to our opinions and I have no issue with you disagreeing with me - But you will not persuade me from the fact that the 2x Seats on the E190's is not what many people expect of business class, especially when it used to be sold as premium economy.