[Rumor from QF CSAs] Qantas to bring back online mASA's?

[JessicaTam]

We have discussed this upthread and I made a rather big note about that.

From here on in I am assuming that when we talk about ASAs amongst ourselves here (and possibly Red Roo), we know we mean "MASAs". When we talk about ASAs amongst the other Qantas staff, I am assuming most people are careful enough to imply or explain that we mean MASAs, i.e. ASAs priced at Classic rates.

That is exactly my understanding.

 

[Ansett]

I will sit and wait for an announcement.

But would think that at the moment it would be in QF's interest to announce the rumored return as soon as possible to try and reduce the impact that all these changes have had to high tier customers and loyalty.

 

[Deleted User]

I will sit and wait for an announcement.

But would think that at the moment it would be in QF's interest to announce the rumored return as soon as possible to try and reduce the impact that all these changes have had to high tier customers and loyalty.

Perhaps they are happy with us all madly burning points. Amongst this group there would have been some serious points burning happening over the last 4 weeks

 

[ketsuzei]

Amongst this group there would have been some serious points burning happening over the last 4 weeks

I resemble that remark.

 

[QF WP]

Perhaps they are happy with us all madly burning points. Amongst this group there would have been some serious points burning happening over the last 4 weeks

I resemble that remark.

So do I . Whilst we know what the points impact is to us, I wonder what impact it has on the QF bottom line (as we don't know how much QF value the points on their Balance Sheet). We can see the value each year in the Financial Statements, but we have no idea how many points that represents.

 

[Supersonic Swinger]

So do I . Whilst we know what the points impact is to us, I wonder what impact it has on the QF bottom line (as we don't know how much QF value the points on their Balance Sheet). We can see the value each year in the Financial Statements, but we have no idea how many points that represents.

You can approximate it though - their frequent flyer liability at 30 June 2012 was $1.934 billion ($802m current, $1.136 billion non-current), assuming the 0.8 cents per point from "View in Points", this implies 241.75 billion outstanding points. Across 9 million members, this averages out at just under 27,000 points per member (from very frequent flyers to barely active accounts).

 

[medhead]

You can approximate it though - their frequent flyer liability at 30 June 2012 was $1.934 billion ($802m current, $1.136 billion non-current), assuming the 0.8 cents per point from "View in Points", this implies 241.75 billion outstanding points. Across 9 million members, this averages out at just under 27,000 points per member (from very frequent flyers to barely active accounts).

As I have already opinionated, that is the wrong base. 0.8 cents is the nominal value that Qantas are prepared to let you purchase with a point. It shouldn't represent the value that they hold per point on the books,because they still have to make their margin between selling and redeeming a point.

 

[Supersonic Swinger]

As I have already opinionated, that is the wrong base. 0.8 cents is the nominal value that Qantas are prepared to let you purchase with a point. It shouldn't represent the value that they hold per point on the books,because they still have to make their margin between selling and redeeming a point.

medhead, I have done a bit of work in my career on the accounting underlying frequent flyer programs - the margin is made in selling points through credit cards and other points providers for between 1 and 2 cents a point, which provides them with a 0.2 to 1.2 cent profit per sold point. Qantas' net "Frequent Flyer Marketing Revenue" in the 2012 financial year was $226 million, at say an average of 1.3 cents per point, this would imply about 20 billion points per year from sales of points to these third parties. The nominal value used to value the liability may be less than 0.8 cents, but it wouldn't be more.

 

[QF WP]

Well, interestingly the 0.8c was the figure I used in my meeting yesterday with the RGM - he didn't indicate either way whether it was what QF used...so I am none the wiser.

 

[markis10]

medhead, I have done a bit of work in my career on the accounting underlying frequent flyer programs - the margin is made in selling points through credit cards and other points providers for between 1 and 2 cents a point, which provides them with a 0.2 to 1.2 cent profit per sold point.

I suspect your calcs are out, including the fact they get margin on selling points as well as redemption:

 

[medhead]

medhead, I have done a bit of work in my career on the accounting underlying frequent flyer programs - the margin is made in selling points through credit cards and other points providers for between 1 and 2 cents a point, which provides them with a 0.2 to 1.2 cent profit per sold point. Qantas' net "Frequent Flyer Marketing Revenue" in the 2012 financial year was $226 million, at say an average of 1.3 cents per point, this would imply about 20 billion points per year from sales of points to these third parties. The nominal value used to value the liability may be less than 0.8 cents, but it wouldn't be more.

I'm just saying that the liability it not going to be the same as the value they give us per point. But I have no idea what the liability value is, except that it's likely to be less that than value they give us because they make a margin on redemptions.

 

[Inver]

Re: QF Booking Class?

This topic was a hot one at my meeting with the Qantas RGM this afternoon and we spent probably 35 minutes talking through the various history, issues, perceptions, rumours of ASA's. He was well informed and had an excellent handle on the issue.


Will put together a summation soon...I'll probably beat Red Roo

So where is this summation LW? I'm anxious to read it.

 

[Limewood]

Re: QF Booking Class?

Waiting with bated breath to.

 

[markis10]

Re: QF Booking Class?

He got so depressed he hit the Cellarmasters wines under his desk and has not been seen since

 

[Deleted User]

Perhaps no news is good news perhaps there is an embargo and his lips are sealed

 

[will2rob]

Perhaps they are happy with us all madly burning points. Amongst this group there would have been some serious points burning happening over the last 4 weeks

I've burnt close to 400k points since the announcement. On the plus side I'm going from NB to WP in a three month period.

 

[Deleted User]

I've burnt close to 400k points since the announcement. On the plus side I'm going from NB to WP in a three month period.

Yes I was thinking that... perhaps there will be a swell in WP's

 

[Verde]

I've burnt close to 400k points since the announcement. On the plus side I'm going from NB to WP in a three month period.

I decided to give up on the ASA process after trying to work through it last week. By the time I got my FASA SYD-LAX booked I was frustrated (and it sounded like the Qantas staff member was annoyed too), so gave up on the return trip and booked a classic J award online for the trip back (this was two days after my first attempt when they insisted ASAs didn't exist anymore). This was after looking up the classic award availability online to ensure it was available and having the right dates, flights and lines ready to go thanks to the appropriate thread on AFF. Kind of regret it, but have about cleared out my QFF points balance now (well, still 20k left after using about 300k) and decided to give up on the ASA process and stick to AA to earn SC for the higher status (makes QFF points far less valuable, to the extent I might cancel my point earning cards and move everything over to the fee-free BankWest Plat card I got a month ago).

 

[will2rob]

I decided to give up on the ASA process after trying to work through it last week. By the time I got my FASA SYD-LAX booked I was frustrated (and it sounded like the Qantas staff member was annoyed too), so gave up on the return trip and booked a classic J award online for the trip back (this was two days after my first attempt when they insisted ASAs didn't exist anymore). This was after looking up the classic award availability online to ensure it was available and having the right dates, flights and lines ready to go thanks to the appropriate thread on AFF. Kind of regret it, but have about cleared out my QFF points balance now (well, still 20k left after using about 300k) and decided to give up on the ASA process and stick to AA to earn SC for the higher status (makes QFF points far less valuable, to the extent I might cancel my point earning cards and move everything over to the fee-free BankWest Plat card I got a month ago).

If MASAs are phased out I'll reassess. Until I know what is happening I'll just earn and burn. I pull in between 60k to 100k QFF points per month, so it doesn't take me long to rack up enough for a JASA.

 

[sumthinfornuthin]

I think Any Seat awards are going to return.

They may not be as cheap as before (how much more expensive would be a wild guess) and I believe some of the multi-sector complex routings going from nowhere to nowhere will not be available.

Just a hunch....

More than likely right but if it means bums on seats what is the problem with that