RSA MEL F Lounge Qantas Official Response (Refused Drinks)

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The difficulty is (and it's an australian issue) that we have become so hellbent on "RSA" that there is no recourse. It's none of Qantas' business if one needs to stay below the legal driving limit. RSA just means the individual is not behaving in a manner that impacts themselves or others.

That said... Make a complaint to the licensing board and they'll just say "an establishment is entitled to set whatever policies they please".

We've become too much of a sad nanny state.
 
No they're not. they're applying a guideline that takes into account that females on average can tolerate less booze while remaining below the driving BAC limit. That is based on sex, even if it is not based on individual factors. If anything it is individualist, but it's not sexist.
It's not an average, it's more that these are applying the "lowest common denominator" - someone is likely to be over 0.05 after this many drinks, so it applies to all as a 'rule of thumb', irrespective of any tolerance they may have.

But this is not the issue; the reality here is the application of Safe Driving Guidelines to citing them as RSA. As per BC's post:
Regardless, they are still confusing driving limits with RSA. If they deny me a drink after 3 in 90 minutes based on "safe to drive" or even "female" rather than behaviour then they are doing it incorrectly.
 
As a 68 year old man I would find it terrible that by denying me more than 3 drinks QF may be increasing my risk of death.
I have previously mentioned the Dubbo study of those over 80.If you drink then the chances are you will on average live 12 months longer than a tee totaller.
The Busselton study shows the same for men older than 65 and woman over 70.
They also show a lower risk for dementia.

Moderate drinkers do best-defined as 15-24 standard drinks a week for men and 8-14 for women.
http://dubbostudy.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Alcohol-Simons-final.pdf.

As to metabolism it really varies widely.I knew a retired Wing Commander who at the age of 87 could polish off a case of red,a case of champagne and a couple of bottles of brandy with a physician friend in a weekend-but not this physician.I saw him hungover once but never drunk.
 
RSA MEL F Lounge Qantas Official Response ( Refused Drinks)

It's not an average, it's more that these are applying the "lowest common denominator" - someone is likely to be over 0.05 after this many drinks, so it applies to all as a 'rule of thumb', irrespective of any tolerance they may have.

But this is not the issue; the reality here is the application of Safe Driving Guidelines to citing them as RSA. As per BC's post:

Given the cases of people following rule of thumb exceeding 0.05, I stick to the view that it is an average. (I should also mention that I was going to write "average body habitus, but didn't) I also disagree that it is generally forced on people (as we see here only qantas seems to force it in people). It is a rule of thumb for people to use, or not, at their own discretion. People are free to use it or ignore it outside of the MEL F lounge. As per my anecdote of having access to a police breatho allowing determination of ones own tolerance.

I think I've clearly stated that application of this rule is wrong way up thread. Blackcat may have come back to this point. But before she did the question about sexism was raised. My post addresses that question of there being something inherently sexist about having separate female and male rules of thumb. This may not be the issue, but it was raised as a discussion point.
 
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As to metabolism it really varies widely.I knew a retired Wing Commander who at the age of 87 could polish off a case of red,a case of champagne and a couple of bottles of brandy with a physician friend in a weekend-but not this physician.I saw him hungover once but never drunk.

Reminds me of an RSM. Served him a new beer about every 40 minutes for about 8 hours. Not sure what he drank with dinner. But there were a few toasts.
 
... I knew a retired Wing Commander who at the age of 87 could polish off a case of red,a case of champagne and a couple of bottles of brandy with a physician friend in a weekend ...

And he may have been able to do this long before retirement. ;)

Similarly, I once worked with someone who would polish off a bottle of whisky every night, without any help, before retiring for the night.
 
I guess the only pertinent 'fact' we have out of this is advice from Customer Care that an RSA policy (a QF/Accor flavour of RSA) is being applied at MEL F lounge, along with confirmation of same from a lounge staffer in response to a direct question. We have IIRC one example reported of a similar occurrence at SYD, though there was never any actual mention of RSA at that time (would be nice to know if they have a similar policy, but can understand why people would not want to ask).

I said earlier it is a load of old cobblers and nothing I have seen changes my mind. I have long held that MEL is a better lounge (when dining at SYD all I can hear is the pots and pans and plates a-clangin' from over the counter in the kitchen, and also one time got my S&P squid and Minute steak served to me concurrently, and poorly cooked), but acknowledge that the pours at MEL have been stingy for quite some time (I don't think it was like that back in the day), sometimes the unspoken 'disapproval' from the waitstaff is palpable when you go past two drinks, and this 'RSA' policy now takes the cake (though I've never knowingly been subject to it).

SYD may work out as a better lounge now in light of the MEL 'RSA' policy (not saying that booze rates above anything else, I just don't like being regulated by a patently silly set of rules).

I wonder if there is a 'senior lounge manager' sitting just above the two F lounges, or whether they each follow a state-based reporting line until much higher up in the chain. Could MEL be considered a 'renegade' lounge of sorts if they implement this policy (that is to say, RSA 'their' way) and SYD does not? Is QF or Accor behind this, or both? Many people wish to know! :)

I do not go to any lounge intending to drink my weight in fizz or anything else - it is simply how I feel on the day. I could drink tea, nurse a glass of red for an hour, or the first beer may barely touch the sides going down. Like JohnK, I am comfortable in determining how much I drink in a lounge rather than having waitstaff telling me I have had too much (has never happened BTW), which I would find offensive (yes, I know as per someone's post that no-one will ever agree with themselves being RSA-ed).

Anyway, incentive to become WP again has dropped somewhat on the back of this. I suspect future F lounge visits (should they happen) may be to eat, then migrate to the J lounge where I can self-serve as many or as few glasses as I wish (or have a cup of tea), filled to where I wish (I don't think they'll get to the stage of having a hotline from F to J saying "tuapekastar is on his way down, he can't have his next drink for another 23 minutes yet"). :) Or I certainly hope not. :shock:

As an aside, at the FT QF AGM at the BNE domestic QP a few weeks I overheard one FTer saying to another that the lady at the bar was talking about cutting him off (don't know if it happened).
 
I think if I was RSA'd for cost cutting I'd probably order 2 of the most expensive dishes on the menu - can't drink on an empty stomach.

But as a quite modest drinker (self certified) - I do find that the lounges deliver me less utility than substantial drinkers. The average piss-ant index of WP members is probably what brought an end to the official anytime lounge access - not that they drank when they go there but WP's would visit the airport just for free pis. Instead of self declared righteous people like myself who used anytime access to see guests off or receiving guests.

But RSAing is not the right way to cut costs because people, understandably, take it personally. I mean if OP had been refused all drinks because it was Good Friday or similar it probably would have been modestly disappointing rather than infuriating.
 
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Genuine Q: If you take a guy and a gal, as close as possible to the same physique, fitness, usual alcohol consumption etc, will they 'generally' metabolise alcohol differently and would it be such that they show 'affects' of alcohol at different times? Or is it a comparison between classes of people, with females I think generally smaller? (no flames for that comment, please! :) )

Interesting question so looked it up.

On average women are smaller than men. On average women have a higher proportion of body fat than men. Both of these factors would tend to increase the blood alcohol concentration for a given dose of alcohol.

Interesting that for a given lean body mass, women seem to metabolise alcohol more quickly than men (this wasn't what I expected even with a medical background).

There is a possible small difference in how women metabolise alcohol in the stomach.

Importantly, there is a large individual variation some of which is genetic and some connected to enzyme activity.

However, a lot of what we describe as tolerance (ie not appearing drunk) is not metabolising alcohol more quickly-it is just having a brain that is accustomed to dealing with alcohol and functioning. This would correspond with what you see in Emergency where vagrants may have seemingly fatal blood alcohol concentrations while still being alert and talkative

So: in theory a similar weight lady with the same level of body fat and similar drinking history should return a similar blood alcohol level as the equivalent man (to be accurate a group of similar men and women). The woman's blood alcohol wold be expected to fall more quickly.

With regards to the original point: RSA is about visible drunkenness. The drinks per hour rule is about staying under 0.05 (ie being legally sober)

You could argue that the 0.05 figure for driving is arbritary as well but I strongly believe you have to have a limit that is absolute otherwise it becomes impossible to keep drink drivers off the road
 
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... The average piss-ant index of WP members is probably what brought an end to the official anytime lounge access - not that they drank when they go there but WP's would visit the airport just for free pis. Instead of self declared righteous people like myself who used anytime access to see guests off or receiving guests ...


Oh, No, No. ATA was ended to reduce overcrowding, remember. Followed by some enticements that then increased "overcrowding" (QP membership incentives). A bit O/T for F Lounge, though.
 
The majority of people are sensible in their drinking habits and would like to be given the respect to make our own consumption choices and not be part of the Parent - Child relationship that this tale represents.
 
The majority of people are sensible in their drinking habits and would like to be given the respect to make our own consumption choices and not be part of the Parent - Child relationship that this tale represents.
Cheap parent��:D
 
The majority of people are sensible in their drinking habits and would like to be given the respect to make our own consumption choices and not be part of the Parent - Child relationship that this tale represents.

Well said.

I suppose MEL is located in the DPRV :rolleyes:
 
3 schooners of Drambuie should be quite enough but I am happy with Moet or Krug or pretty much any other champagne. Never realised it was helping life expectancy.
 
Just a quick update

I have had a message from Red Roo who has advised that the issue has now been escalated with in the customer care department and that they will be back to me shortly



This matter has since been escalated internally with Customer Care, and I will again be in touch soon.



Looking forward to seeing the outcome of internal escalation.
 
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Just a quick update

I have had a message from Red Roo who has advised that the issue has now been escalated with in the customer care department and that they will be back to me shortly



This matter has since been escalated internally with Customer Care, and I will again be in touch soon.



Looking forward to seeing the outcome of internal escalation.
Excellent news, Ansett.
 
Interesting. The question is if the customer care team includes the MEL lounge management, or at least whoever within QF oversees them.

Thanks for the update. This is certainly a hot topic......
 
Just a quick update

I have had a message from Red Roo who has advised that the issue has now been escalated with in the customer care department and that they will be back to me shortly



This matter has since been escalated internally with Customer Care, and I will again be in touch soon.



Looking forward to seeing the outcome of internal escalation.

LOL - Nothing will change, perhaps just a re-worded email to you
 
Just a quick update

I have had a message from Red Roo who has advised that the issue has now been escalated with in the customer care department and that they will be back to me shortly



This matter has since been escalated internally with Customer Care, and I will again be in touch soon.



Looking forward to seeing the outcome of internal escalation.

LOL - Nothing will change, perhaps just a re-worded email to you

I think this might point towards some other action to cut costs of JQ pax using the First lounge, in the long term.
 
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