Royal Brunei Airlines and LGBTI travellers

[Isochronous]

The short answer is don't fly RBA and don't go to Brunei if their laws will adversely affect you or you simply don't want to support their economy as such. Noteworthy that the Sharia lobby in Australia is treated as a sacred cow though and celebrated for contributing to 'multiculturalism' and 'diversity'!

 

[woodborer]

Whether or not some countries today choose to ignore those fundamental principles is what we’re having the discussion about in this thread

It's ok for those that look from the perspective of a relatively secular society. It is difficult sometimes to reconcile the notions of 'freedom of religion' and 'freedom of speech' in some countries!

 

[Berlin]

It is difficult sometimes to reconcile the notions of 'freedom of religion' and 'freedom of speech' in some countries!

Which makes it even more important that we criticise these countries!

 

[Steady]

Which makes it even more important that we criticise these countries!

Is this from the perspective of the pot, or the kettle?

“These countries” can say exactly the same thing about “those countries” from the other perspective

Both sides are right from their own perspective, and both are wrong from the others.

 

[Berlin]

Is this from the perspective of the pot, or the kettle?

“These countries” can say exactly the same thing about “those countries” from the other perspective

Both sides are right from their own perspective, and both are wrong from the others.

No one is right from a “perspective” that ignores basic human rights.

Following your argument- and I am allowed to say this as a German-born, Hitler was obviously “right” from his perspective. What the...?

 

[33kft]

https://www.theage.com.au/business/...-brunei-over-sharia-move-20190403-p51afg.html

Virgin Australia has cancelled its staff travel agreement with Brunei's national carrier in light of the Southeast Asian nation's introduction of harsh new religious laws that include the death penalty for gay sex.

Australia's number-two airline has an "interline" arrangement with Royal Brunei, which means that Royal Brunei customers can book tickets on some Virgin flights within Australia.

And until now, Virgin staff have also been able to book discounted tickets on Royal Brunei flights for leisure travel.

But Virgin has put an end to the staff travel arrangement after the tiny but oil-rich nation on the island of Borneo became the first country in the region to introduce sharia law.

 

[dajop]

One thing, I wonder how many people will be boycotting BI, but happy to continue flying QR .....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-punished-by-death-2/?utm_term=.7843f6d2f426

 

[JohnK]

That’s not what you asked

You asked ‘who decides?’, and that answer is semi easy. In the aftermath of the atrocities of WW II the charter was drafted.

Whether or not some countries today choose to ignore those fundamental principles is what we’re having the discussion about in this thread

Of course that's the whole discussion. I did ask who decides laws and the answer is each individual country has the right to set their own laws. Just because we think something sounds logical doesn't mean another will see it tge same way.

And I did bring up the point earlier in the thread. Just because a majority think something is right does not make the minority wrong.

And just because we think we're highly evolved doesn't mean we have the right to change how other cultures think.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Of course that's the whole discussion. I did ask who decides laws and the answer is each individual country has the right to set their own laws. Just because we think something sounds logical doesn't mean another will see it tge same way.

And I did bring up the point earlier in the thread. Just because a majority think something is right does not make the minority wrong.

And just because we think we're highly evolved doesn't mean we have the right to change how other cultures think.

Then we get into the discussion about what is an 'individual country'? A democracy? A dictatorship? I think there are some regimes that are so bad that just about everyone - except similar regimes - find them abhorrent.

We're a society that focuses on the needs of vocal minorities neglecting the abuse and slaughter going on everywhere.

I thought we were a focused on making our society caring, accepting, and inclusive? The minorities shouldn’t be seen as some sort of enemy... if we were a model society they wouldn’t need to be vocal! Your daughter could grow up in any number of the 'minorities'. You'll probably be thankful if she doesn't need to be vocal, and probably very passionate in supporting her cause if she has to be.

 

[Steady]

No one is right from a “perspective” that ignores basic human rights.

Following your argument- and I am allowed to say this as a German-born, Hitler was obviously “right” from his perspective. What the...?

The discussion is on a new law decreed in Brunei, that physical homosexuality and adultery is now illegal and the punishment is death. Other countries still have capital punishment, and homosexuality is not legal everywhere. Is Brunei the only country with Sharia law?

While I may well have it wrong, (often do) I understand that Hitler murdered people for being a race (or not being), not what they were doing etc. Appartite was also for being a race (or not being) I don’t really see the direct link in saying he was obviously right - but you are allowed to say it as we have freedom of speech.

I wonder how many will be put to death in Brunei due to this law in the next 10 years, I doubt many but maybe I’m naive. The people it effects will just keep their relationships behind closed doors as they probably already do.

FTR, I don’t agree with Sharia law, and really don’t agree with the Australian gov wanting/accepting their input. I do believe countries have a sovereign right to make their own laws.

(If we talk basic human rights have a look at India, Pakistan, China, North Korea, many African countries, and the list would just keep going.)

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The discussion is on a new law decreed in Brunei, that physical homosexuality and adultery is now illegal and the punishment is death.

It seems the sodomy laws apply equally to same sex and opposite sex.

 

[Isochronous]

https://www.theage.com.au/business/...-brunei-over-sharia-move-20190403-p51afg.html

Virgin Australia has cancelled its staff travel agreement with Brunei's national carrier in light of the Southeast Asian nation's introduction of harsh new religious laws that include the death penalty for gay sex.

Australia's number-two airline has an "interline" arrangement with Royal Brunei, which means that Royal Brunei customers can book tickets on some Virgin flights within Australia.

And until now, Virgin staff have also been able to book discounted tickets on Royal Brunei flights for leisure travel.

But Virgin has put an end to the staff travel arrangement after the tiny but oil-rich nation on the island of Borneo became the first country in the region to introduce sharia law.

This really only hurts VA staff who would have flown on RBA - bearing in mind that staff travel means they pay about 10% of the base fare and so the airline actually loses money carrying staff pax - so it's not as though this is a move that hurts RBA (although I question how many VA staff would have actually used them in the first place, but the point remains...!)

 

[Berlin]

While I may well have it wrong, (often do) I understand that Hitler murdered people for being a race (or not being), not what they were

You’re indeed VERY wrong there mate! I had two grandfathers- one was a naz_ and (deservedly so) got shot while trying to drop bombs on England and the other one ended up in a camp for being communist which was clearly not his “race”.

Likewise, ever heard of the pink triangle? Hitler murdered millions of gay people just for being who they are. If you really didn’t know, come share the pain in this excellent movie:

Bent (1997 film) - Wikipedia

 

[dajop]

Is Brunei the only country with Sharia law?

No. definitely not.

 

[Steady]

You’re indeed VERY wrong there mate!

Happy to be CORRECTED

 

[Berlin]

Happy to be CORRECTED

Thank you!

I know it feels far away from here but it feels very personal to myself. I didn’t mean to pull you up or anything.

Very deep discussion for a Frequent Flyer forum!

 

[JohnK]

This statement is either coming across the wrong way or it is one of the dumbest things I’ve read in a long time (and I follow Breitbart on Twitter, just to know the enemy).

We cannot be critical of someone’s behaviour or their beliefs? Wtf? We certainly HAVE to watch these with a critical eye if only to defend basic humanity. I’m really struggling with your comment here John so maybe I’m just not understanding you properly?

Dumbest? We're talking about countries right? Well we cannot be critical of how people behave in their own country or their beliefs. I should also include culture. We don't have a say in that decision because we think we're better.

I'm not sure I can explain it any better. We think they're wrong. They think we're wrong. Who's right?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Dumbest? We're talking about countries right? Well we cannot be critical of how people behave in their own country or their beliefs. I should also include culture. We don't have a say in that decision because we think we're better.

I'm not sure I can explain it any better. We think they're wrong. They think we're wrong. Who's right?

This argument only holds to a certain point. While it may hold true for democratic countries, it probably doesn't for totalitarian regimes. And which countries are we usually critical of?

In which circumstances do you think it would ok for your daughter to be denied education, be married at 12, be raped, be prevented from holding a job, be denied every opportunity that a male might have? I think there's a line where we can actually say there's a 'right and wrong'.

 

[Berlin]

Dumbest? We're talking about countries right? Well we cannot be critical of how people behave in their own country or their beliefs. I should also include culture. We don't have a say in that decision because we think we're better.

I'm not sure I can explain it any better. We think they're wrong. They think we're wrong. Who's right?

Oh, we are talking about countries alright! And we can very well critize their inhumane beliefs (and worse, laws and actions).

In essence, you would be arguing that the Western allies had no right to be critical of naz_ Germany (and how they behaved and what they believed in)? Is that really what you are arguing? I’m sure most naz_s thought they were VERY right.

I think someone here badly needs a history and ethics refresher...

 

[dajop]

Dumbest? We're talking about countries right? Well we cannot be critical of how people behave in their own country or their beliefs. I should also include culture. We don't have a say in that decision because we think we're better.

I'm not sure I can explain it any better. We think they're wrong. They think we're wrong. Who's right?

What about the culture of idol worship? As in worshipping your country's leader, his father and his grandfather? And should we just accept, and not be critical of countries who put to death their citizens who either do not participate in or actively resist such idol worship?