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Rewarding Long Term Frequent Flyer Loyalty

Seat0B

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How do you think Qantas should reward long term FF loyalty?

After 22 years of membership, well over 28,000 lifetime status credits, 13 years as Platinum and 3 years as Platinum One, this year I will fail to retain Platinum for the first time in over 15 years. I’ve had to cancel 2 trips that would have retained status due to my father’s illness and ultimately his death. Similar thing happened to my husband last year (although he just flew less) after a slightly shorter run of Platinum. People tell me I may be comped or possibly offered a status challenge, but hubby was not.

We both have LTG - but this is not enough to entice us to remain rusted on to Qantas. Honestly, you get treated well, good baggage and lounge access with any airline if you pay for J tickets. So I guess we will now be free from the shackles of Qantas. The main downside will be reduced award ticket availability to spend all the accumulated FF points

However, I feel rather disrespected. I’ve shown a lot of loyalty to this airline (more than double the status credits required to achieve LTG) for no further recognition. Plus my hubby’s similar long term loyalty. To Qantas, loyalty appears to be annualised and transactional only. Bit of a mistake on their part as we are about to become semi-retirees, spending the kids’ inheritance on travel!

What about some reward for truly long term loyalty? Like lifetime Platinum? Or a couple of “get out of jail free” cards you can use in situations like this to retain status? Other ideas?


,
 
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RooFlyer

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A topic that's been debated here a number of times :). Life time Platinum has been canvassed, but very, very little chance of being implemented.

To Qantas, loyalty appears to be annualised and transactional only.

That would sum it up well. You are only a valued customer as far as your next revenue flight.

Look on the bright side: the sooner you break the bonds of Qantas 'loyalty', the sooner you'll start enjoying the freedom of a better choice of airline offerings and cheaper fares. :cool:
 

Pushka

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A topic that's been debated here a number of times :). Life time Platinum has been canvassed, but very, very little chance of being implemented.



That would sum it up well. You are only a valued customer as far as your next revenue flight.

Look on the bright side: the sooner you break the bonds of Qantas 'loyalty', the sooner you'll start enjoying the freedom of a better choice of airline offerings and cheaper fares. :cool:
It’s a huge leap though. At least for us while we have to do a lot of domestic flights for work. Maybe it’s a retirement plan?
 

RooFlyer

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It’s a huge leap though. At least for us while we have to do a lot of domestic flights for work. Maybe it’s a retirement plan?

I did it well before retirement, but I had the company I was contracted to paying for my long haul flights. :) I deliberately 'diversified' by taking Air Canada every second flight, and with those points and status, 'discovered' the joys of QF alternatives!

But for non work flights, in the meantime, there is always a status match (if you can snag one).
 

moa999

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How do you think Qantas should reward long term FF loyalty?

I’ve had to cancel 2 trips that would have retained status due to my father’s illness and ultimately his death. People tell me I may be comped or possibly offered a status challenge, but hubby was not.

We both have LTG - but this is not enough to entice us to remain rusted on to Qantas.

However, I feel rather disrespected.

Sorry for your loss.

I think however your statement that LTG is not enough to keep you rusted onto Qantas is why they don't have LTP. The continual attraction of Platinum has kept you loyal for the last few years (loyalty that may not have been present with LTP at say 21/28k - eg. Book with CX/JL/MH and still get all oneworld benefits)

Not sure how enforcing some fairly well known and detailed rules can make you feel disrespected.

I'd start by an email to the P1 team about a month before status expiry, asking for consideration, detailing the above and cancelled flight details. Probably helps if you have forward bookings as well.
 
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drron

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I agree with moa999.You do have a case for compassion but it should have been done when you knew you had to cancel the flights.Still worth a try.
 

mrsterryn

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Was your husband offered requalification by points? Or Platinium not offered that ?
Husband and I are self funded. My goal is LTG (we have silver ) due to the accesses provided by the Oneworld network.
Once achieved we probable we stray from Qantas and try other airlines in their premium cabins
Have to say I do keep dithering if we will....thankfully LTG is about 3 years away
 

RichardMEL

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I can see this one becoming yet another long winded circular thread, of which I will write many rambling posts no doubt :D

First of all Ruth, welcome to AFF (You only have a small number of posts, so I'l extend a belated welcome!) and again, sorry for the loss of your father.

I think just about all of us, specially with high status and long time loyalty (I myself am soon to click over 30k LTSC so similar to you) agree there needs to be "more" for the long time loyal flyer.

And you're absolutely write in that QF only care about the current yield they can extract from us as passengers, and "loyalty" being measured on our spend (ie status) through the most recent period of time.

Unfortunately this is how just about all "loyalty" (I use in quotes on purpose) programs work - hotels, cars, airlines etc.. If you go elsewhere they don't care and your benefits, and points expire within a period such as a year to 18 months). Heavens my football club does the same with it's memberships!! If I do not rejoin each season well they do not care. I know people who have been members for 40+ years but since they may have missed a year in the 90's or even recently, their "counter" is reset.

On the one hand, as I see it, it makes a LOT of common business sense.. and on the other it makes no sense.

As Business can not keep going on "past glories" I mean if I spent $1 million 10 years ago, is that relevant to the bottom line this year, or the next? Not if I don't continue to spend! I've bought coffee most mornings at the same place for the past 15 or so years but if I stop going for a year and come back should they just give me free coffeess? Unlikely :)

Having said that, there needs to be incentive to keep us coming back. In the case of QF it's LTG.. and unlike my coffee analogy, the status incentive only works for me if I fly on QF (or appropriate partner but QF hopes them) again so I spend current money and get a few perks thrown in. yadda yadda yadda. So I'm not entirely getting something for nothing, but at least on a cheapy Y fare I could expect lounge access, priority bags etc.

As you say though, if I can afford a Premium Cabin ticket on another airline like SQ, EY, etc then I would get all of that stuff anyway.. so the lifetime status only really has benefit once one is not able to access those higher cabin fares for whatever reasons.

Not everyone who attains the higher levels of lifetime status can keep doing that, specially in retiirement. Sure, some can and then they can pick and choose based on route, best are, product etc. Next month I am flying NZ to the US due to a cheap J fare (half the price of QF) and plus it adds to my 2019 Star Alliance status (I too mix and match to not be wedded to the one option).

So, I agree, if you're in a position to put $$$ into premium cares then there's no reason to stick to QF unless they offer a good price or route that works for you, and if or when they do, then the LTG can kick in and at least help but again with a J or higher fare you get all of that anyway though the status may help if, for example, going for an upgrade from J to F on the few routes that offer it, or may be given slight preference during IRROPS.

So why no LTP, or anything for LTSC totals above 14,000?

Personally I think it is due to the fact that VA has nothing similar in Velocity (IIRC) and thus there's really no incentive for QF to do more. And, I am sure that QF feel that for their AU based membership who do a lot of domestic travel, chances are highly likely that they would continue to fly QF with Gold (and if they took their business to VA, it's likely not important to QF on an individual basis).

I bet if VA introduced lifetime recognition (and something akin to P1) then QF would be forced to respond and up the ante. Until then, there's no really obvious reason for them to do o. They are banking on, in large part, people being "rusted on" as you say and the lack of options to strive for in the *local* space.

Now many here on AFF are well aware of alternatives, such as BA GGL, and other programs that offer (for now) better perks. However they may not suit everyone (For example I have very little europe/LHR flying so BA woul dmake very little sense for me to fly, and getting minumum sectors would be a PITA, and thus the BA specific perks would be wasted a bit).. while there are many others on the forum for which this option works great. Others put loyalty into LA, or SQ, or AA, or whoever (I am also inching towards million miler LTG status with UA for example).

For more offerings by QFF like LTP the numbers need to work for them, and they need a strong business case for it.

I bet there are a whole bunch of people who have well over 25k LTSC and if QFF "flipped the swtich" and enabled LTP overnight, they would probably have thousands of instant platinums (though a certain % of these would already have this status anyway no doubt, but you get my drift). This is probably a cost QF don't see benefit in, specially if they all go off and fly CX and spend heaps of times in the CX F lounges costing QF real dosh.

The kinds of things *I* would like to see happen, or rather what I think might be more realistic than a LTP (which I WOULD love!) is a system of incentives that both rewards long term flyers but keeps them coming back majority to QF (not because I love QF per se, but thinking from their point of view). Much like P1 attainment must include 2700 QF/JQ SC's maybe a discounted earn rate for WP for LTG members, what about 1000 SC/year to earn/retain? How about for each X LTSC earned a bonus points are paid out? O even at X year anniversaries (20 years, 25 etc). These would not be hard to impliment.

In other threads we've oft discussed ways P1 could be made better, well similar can apply to lifetime loyalty recognition. eg: 20k LTSC to get some confirmed upgrade certificates, or an automatic status upgrade to Platinum, or a choice)...

there are many ways these things could be done that I reckon could make sense for QF to retain revenue and loyalty btut also to reward the people who have been there for years.

The reality is that none of this is ever likely to happen and if anything the benefits will be eroded more (as with all programs) so... seeking alternatives, BFOD and spreading the love around alliances is the better option in this climate.
 

woodborer

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What about some reward for truly long term loyalty? Like lifetime Platinum? Or a couple of “get out of jail free” cards you can use in situations like this to retain status? Other ideas?

You can be pretty sure that Qantas and VA have run the number on Lifetime Platinum and decided it doesn't stack up. Anyway, not too many businesses reward you for your loyalty years after you stop using them. They've got new people to take care of.
 

Flying Fox

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After 22 years of membership, well over 28,000 lifetime status credits, 13 years as Platinum and 3 years as Platinum One, this year I will fail to retain Platinum for the first time in over 15 years. I’ve had to cancel 2 trips that would have retained status due to my father’s illness and ultimately his death. Similar thing happened to my husband last year (although he just flew less) after a slightly shorter run of Platinum. People tell me I may be comped or possibly offered a status challenge, but hubby was not.

Firstly, condolences for loss of your father.

I would have thought that if you have been WP or WP1 for 15 years you would get comp-ed WP under the three year rule?
 

Seat0B

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Sorry for your loss.

I think however your statement that LTG is not enough to keep you rusted onto Qantas is why they don't have LTP. The continual attraction of Platinum has kept you loyal for the last few years (loyalty that may not have been present with LTP at say 21/28k - eg. Book with CX/JL/MH and still get all oneworld benefits)

Not sure how enforcing some fairly well known and detailed rules can make you feel disrespected.

I'd start by an email to the P1 team about a month before status expiry, asking for consideration, detailing the above and cancelled flight details. Probably helps if you have forward bookings as well.
Thanks moa999
 

Seat0B

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Was your husband offered requalification by points? Or Platinium not offered that ?
Husband and I are self funded. My goal is LTG (we have silver ) due to the accesses provided by the Oneworld network.
Once achieved we probable we stray from Qantas and try other airlines in their premium cabins
Have to say I do keep dithering if we will....thankfully LTG is about 3 years away
Mrsterryn, he was not offered anything. And he was Platinum in his own right, not the spouse Platinum offered as a Platinum 1 benefit.
 

Seat0B

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I can see this one becoming yet another long winded circular thread, of which I will write many rambling posts no doubt :D

First of all Ruth, welcome to AFF (You only have a small number of posts, so I'l extend a belated welcome!) and again, sorry for the loss of your father.

I think just about all of us, specially with high status and long time loyalty (I myself am soon to click over 30k LTSC so similar to you) agree there needs to be "more" for the long time loyal flyer.

And you're absolutely write in that QF only care about the current yield they can extract from us as passengers, and "loyalty" being measured on our spend (ie status) through the most recent period of time.

Unfortunately this is how just about all "loyalty" (I use in quotes on purpose) programs work - hotels, cars, airlines etc.. If you go elsewhere they don't care and your benefits, and points expire within a period such as a year to 18 months). Heavens my football club does the same with it's memberships!! If I do not rejoin each season well they do not care. I know people who have been members for 40+ years but since they may have missed a year in the 90's or even recently, their "counter" is reset.

On the one hand, as I see it, it makes a LOT of common business sense.. and on the other it makes no sense.

As Business can not keep going on "past glories" I mean if I spent $1 million 10 years ago, is that relevant to the bottom line this year, or the next? Not if I don't continue to spend! I've bought coffee most mornings at the same place for the past 15 or so years but if I stop going for a year and come back should they just give me free coffeess? Unlikely :)

Having said that, there needs to be incentive to keep us coming back. In the case of QF it's LTG.. and unlike my coffee analogy, the status incentive only works for me if I fly on QF (or appropriate partner but QF hopes them) again so I spend current money and get a few perks thrown in. yadda yadda yadda. So I'm not entirely getting something for nothing, but at least on a cheapy Y fare I could expect lounge access, priority bags etc.

As you say though, if I can afford a Premium Cabin ticket on another airline like SQ, EY, etc then I would get all of that stuff anyway.. so the lifetime status only really has benefit once one is not able to access those higher cabin fares for whatever reasons.

Not everyone who attains the higher levels of lifetime status can keep doing that, specially in retiirement. Sure, some can and then they can pick and choose based on route, best are, product etc. Next month I am flying NZ to the US due to a cheap J fare (half the price of QF) and plus it adds to my 2019 Star Alliance status (I too mix and match to not be wedded to the one option).

So, I agree, if you're in a position to put $$$ into premium cares then there's no reason to stick to QF unless they offer a good price or route that works for you, and if or when they do, then the LTG can kick in and at least help but again with a J or higher fare you get all of that anyway though the status may help if, for example, going for an upgrade from J to F on the few routes that offer it, or may be given slight preference during IRROPS.

So why no LTP, or anything for LTSC totals above 14,000?

Personally I think it is due to the fact that VA has nothing similar in Velocity (IIRC) and thus there's really no incentive for QF to do more. And, I am sure that QF feel that for their AU based membership who do a lot of domestic travel, chances are highly likely that they would continue to fly QF with Gold (and if they took their business to VA, it's likely not important to QF on an individual basis).

I bet if VA introduced lifetime recognition (and something akin to P1) then QF would be forced to respond and up the ante. Until then, there's no really obvious reason for them to do o. They are banking on, in large part, people being "rusted on" as you say and the lack of options to strive for in the *local* space.

Now many here on AFF are well aware of alternatives, such as BA GGL, and other programs that offer (for now) better perks. However they may not suit everyone (For example I have very little europe/LHR flying so BA woul dmake very little sense for me to fly, and getting minumum sectors would be a PITA, and thus the BA specific perks would be wasted a bit).. while there are many others on the forum for which this option works great. Others put loyalty into LA, or SQ, or AA, or whoever (I am also inching towards million miler LTG status with UA for example).

For more offerings by QFF like LTP the numbers need to work for them, and they need a strong business case for it.

I bet there are a whole bunch of people who have well over 25k LTSC and if QFF "flipped the swtich" and enabled LTP overnight, they would probably have thousands of instant platinums (though a certain % of these would already have this status anyway no doubt, but you get my drift). This is probably a cost QF don't see benefit in, specially if they all go off and fly CX and spend heaps of times in the CX F lounges costing QF real dosh.

The kinds of things *I* would like to see happen, or rather what I think might be more realistic than a LTP (which I WOULD love!) is a system of incentives that both rewards long term flyers but keeps them coming back majority to QF (not because I love QF per se, but thinking from their point of view). Much like P1 attainment must include 2700 QF/JQ SC's maybe a discounted earn rate for WP for LTG members, what about 1000 SC/year to earn/retain? How about for each X LTSC earned a bonus points are paid out? O even at X year anniversaries (20 years, 25 etc). These would not be hard to impliment.

In other threads we've oft discussed ways P1 could be made better, well similar can apply to lifetime loyalty recognition. eg: 20k LTSC to get some confirmed upgrade certificates, or an automatic status upgrade to Platinum, or a choice)...

there are many ways these things could be done that I reckon could make sense for QF to retain revenue and loyalty btut also to reward the people who have been there for years.

The reality is that none of this is ever likely to happen and if anything the benefits will be eroded more (as with all programs) so... seeking alternatives, BFOD and spreading the love around alliances is the better option in this climate.
Thank you RichardMEL, there are a lot of good ideas here. Does anyone know if Qantas ever reads what is posted?

I do feel strongly about this because we are bout to hit the golden years of lots of self funded leisure travel and our value as a client is still high - just temporary blips for self evident reasons at the moment. So in the end we could claw our way back in a year or 2. They are silly to allow us to taste the forbidden fruits as we may, according to folk lore, find something we like a whole lot better and never really return.

But my real point is that long term loyalty apparently counts for little. I feel the same way when banks, phone companies and utilities companies offer discounts and better plans for new customers and ignore the need to reward those who have been loyal for years.

For example, in almost every year of my 16 years of WP or P1, I have had excess status credits, but that doesn’t amount to anything either, on top of the more than double LTG credits.

First world problem, I know.
 

RichardMEL

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btw status challenges are usually offered as an incentive to achieve status, usually or perhaps as part of a status match incentive (eg: earn 200 SC in 3 months to get Gold). I suspect this would not be offered as essentially you're not new members to the program.

If they would not provide a status comp (as discussed, essentially no longer offered it seems) then they may well near the end of the membership year, when it is clear the status goal will not be reached offer a "payment option" to keep it, ie: 80,000points for Gold, 120k for Platinum (as seems to be the general going rates). Some find this a good deal. Others do not. Each circumstance are different.

I get that you feel disrespected, but on the other hand where does one draw the line with such things? And if you return to flying soon enough then you will soon retain status (specially if flying J). Otherwise, then sure, the current system gives zero incentive and you can go to fly VA or whatever other international airlines you choose. Honestly QF won't care either way (sorry, but individually they won't blink an eyelid).

So why not go see the other side(s)?
 

Seat0B

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You can be pretty sure that Qantas and VA have run the number on Lifetime Platinum and decided it doesn't stack up. Anyway, not too many businesses reward you for your loyalty years after you stop using them. They've got new people to take care of.
Yes woodborer, but I am still a potential customer of theirs in the future, with a track record of lots of travel and I will be again in the future. They don’t seem to have heard that it costs more to get a new customer than to retain one.....
 

Seat0B

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Firstly, condolences for loss of your father.

I would have thought that if you have been WP or WP1 for 15 years you would get comp-ed WP under the three year rule?
Thanks Flying Fox. What is the 3 year rule please? The person I spoke to when I cancelled our flights was polite and helpful, but would not discuss anything to do with FF status. I’ve never heard of the 3 year rule, probably because I always have met the requal requirements. My membership year is coming up soon. My hubby’s has already finished, and he was not offered anything.
 

Seat0B

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btw status challenges are usually offered as an incentive to achieve status, usually or perhaps as part of a status match incentive (eg: earn 200 SC in 3 months to get Gold). I suspect this would not be offered as essentially you're not new members to the program.

If they would not provide a status comp (as discussed, essentially no longer offered it seems) then they may well near the end of the membership year, when it is clear the status goal will not be reached offer a "payment option" to keep it, ie: 80,000points for Gold, 120k for Platinum (as seems to be the general going rates). Some find this a good deal. Others do not. Each circumstance are different.

I get that you feel disrespected, but on the other hand where does one draw the line with such things? And if you return to flying soon enough then you will soon retain status (specially if flying J). Otherwise, then sure, the current system gives zero incentive and you can go to fly VA or whatever other international airlines you choose. Honestly QF won't care either way (sorry, but individually they won't blink an eyelid).

So why not go see the other side(s)?

Yes Richard MEL, that’s our plan. Variety will be the spice of our lives
,
 

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