Reclining [Moving to an empty seat with another behind to do so]

[TonyHancock]

Unless it's a designated comfort seat ...

I've always wondered about that. Presumably the crew would know that it has been "bought and paid for"?

 

[Hvr]

not acceptable to move. You are inconveniencing the person in 5A.

Safe to assume if the pax in 6C requires legroom they can angle their legs into the spare middle seat, and if they require more 'face space' they can also recline their seat.

Exactly.

+1 The middle seat is a shared bonus.

Agreed and if it looks like there'll be a shadow I start using it immediately.

I would find it an attempt to take over my share of the free space for their total benefit.

Still if stuck in the window I might just need to get up to go to the loo a couple of times and then to get something down from the overhead locker.

And of course if someone moves to sit that close to me then there might even be an attraction on their behalf and who am I to thwart their efforts? Now I've got someone to talk to and smile at closely.

 

[Pushka]

I wouldn't move into the spare seat. If I needed to (and rarely do) I'd gently recline.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

If I was in 5A and someone from 5C took it upon themselves to move to 5B, I'd ask them what they were doing, tell them to bugger off, then call the FA to ask the pax to return to their allocated seat.

Reclining during meal service in Y is just plain rude, however.

 

[mrpooky]

I wouldn't move seat if it would obviously disadvantage anyone. And I would get approval from the FA beforehand.

I am very sick of people moving seat to an empty seat without approval, especially when the target seat is in front of me, and they then recline. These people should be ejected out of the aircraft.

You paid for your seat, not one of the many others on the aircraft. Stay in it!

mrpooky.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I wouldn't move seat if it would obviously disadvantage anyone. And I would get approval from the FA beforehand.

I am very sick of people moving seat to an empty seat without approval, especially when the target seat is in front of me, and they then recline. These people should be ejected out of the aircraft.

You paid for your seat, not one of the many others on the aircraft. Stay in it!

mrpooky.

not exactly. You have paid for any 'non-premium' (ie seat which may attract an extra charge) on a flight. If you want to move you are perfectly free to ask (and should not be denied unless there is a good reason.

If I had a spare seat beside me I wouldn't like anyone taking it, but unless I'd paid for it, it's not mine.

 

[Hvr]

not exactly. You have paid for any 'non-premium' (ie seat which may attract an extra charge) on a flight. If you want to move you are perfectly free to ask (and should not be denied unless there is a good reason.

If I had a spare seat beside me I wouldn't like anyone taking it, but unless I'd paid for it, it's not mine.

And if it was an actual shadow for you would you still be happy to give it up?

In Oct I flew BKK-SYD in Y and the only vacant seat was next to me. The CSM advised me that it was my spare seat, i.e. shadow. I was on the middle aisle and immediately moved to that seat so that I could stretch across the now vacant aisle seat.

If anybody had tried to take that seat I imagine they would have been told to move. And yes I would've discreetly asked a cabin crew member for assistance.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

And if it was an actual shadow for you would you still be happy to give it up?

In Oct I flew BKK-SYD in Y and the only vacant seat was next to me. The CSM advised me that it was my spare seat, i.e. shadow. I was on the middle aisle and immediately moved to that seat so that I could stretch across the now vacant aisle seat.

If anybody had tried to take that seat I imagine they would have been told to move. And yes I would've discreetly asked a cabin crew member for assistance.

as i said - i wouldn't be happy if someone took it - but it's not mine per se. i didn't pay for it. If I want the space I pay accordingly.

if you were involuntarily downgraded from business class and they gave you a spare seat as part of the compensation that might entitle you to that seat.... but then it has been 'paid' for in a sense.

 

[mrpooky]

not exactly. You have paid for any 'non-premium' (ie seat which may attract an extra charge) on a flight. .

I disagree. You have paid for any seat from which you had a choice at the time you selected your seat (or were assigned it by a computer or check-in agent). Once you're on board, that's your seat.

If you want to move you are perfectly free to ask (and should not be denied unless there is a good reason.

I agree that you are free to ask, yes, but I think anyone who might be disadvantaged by that move should be questioned by the FA before the move is allowed. If anyone objects, you should stay in your seat.

If I had a spare seat beside me I wouldn't like anyone taking it, but unless I'd paid for it, it's not mine.

... and it's not theirs either. Why should they be allowed to take it?

One of the benefits of status in most FF programs, from what I can see, is increased availability of seats from which one can select. If people are permitted to play musical chairs after take off, particularly without any approval from the cabin crew, then I think that benefit is significantly reduced.

On a general note, I believe in treating others as I would have them treat me. I wouldn't move seat if it would obviously disadvantage the person seated next to or behind my target seat; I would like others to treat me in the same way.

mrpooky.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I disagree. You have paid for any seat from which you had a choice at the time you selected your seat (or were assigned it by a computer or check-in agent). Once you're on board, that's your seat.



I agree that you are free to ask, yes, but I think anyone who might be disadvantaged by that move should be questioned by the FA before the move is allowed. If anyone objects, you should stay in your seat.


... and it's not theirs either. Why should they be allowed to take it?

One of the benefits of status in most FF programs, from what I can see, is increased availability of seats from which one can select. If people are permitted to play musical chairs after take off, particularly without any approval from the cabin crew, then I think that benefit is significantly reduced.

On a general note, I believe in treating others as I would have them treat me. I wouldn't move seat if it would obviously disadvantage the person seated next to or behind my target seat; I would like others to treat me in the same way.

mrpooky.

but I am sure many of us have had check-in agents who sometimes can't be bothered to check for better seats and reply 'flight is full' only for you to get on the plane and find better seats are in fact available.

As for the disadvantage - taking a shadow is not necessarily disadvantaging the passenger with the shadow. They paid for a single seat. They got what they paid for. Sure everyone would love to have a shadow, but you can always pay to have it confirmed if you want it. If business or first class is not available on the flight you are taking, you can always look for another airline that does have suitable accommodation.

My view is that the only seats not available for general consumption are those which attract a fee for extra legroom (or have otherwise been paid for by the passenger).

 

[boomy]

The only time it's ok to move into the middle seat is when you have the whole row to yourself. Taking someone's shadow just because you feel like reclining is very rude. I would never do that and so far I never saw anyone else doing that.

 

[JohnK]

As for the disadvantage - taking a shadow is not necessarily disadvantaging the passenger with the shadow. They paid for a single seat. They got what they paid for. Sure everyone would love to have a shadow, but you can always pay to have it confirmed if you want it. If business or first class is not available on the flight you are taking, you can always look for another airline that does have suitable accommodation.

I was once in row 23 aisle QF domestic with window seat free.

After takeoff this young lass comes up and asks if she can sit there. I had no objection at the time but as I realised later she was travelling with 2 others (friends, family I dont care) in the middle set of 3 seats a few rows back and now they had a spare seat between them while my spare seat disappeared.

Sounds fair? Not quite.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I'm not as fussed about people in front reclining after a recent HNL/BNE flight on HA. There was a kid around 2 or 3 years old with footwear that felt like steel caps who kicked my seat for the entire 10 hour flight. The lady in front of me reclined her seat but did put it up at meal times. I did recline mine for a bit but it just made it easier to be kicked so I gave up.

Mental note to self: the whY cabin to/from HNL on any airline at any time will be a zoo. Next time I will book a seat with the bulkhead behind me whether it has full recline or not knowing that I cannot be kicked. I will also get some noise cancelling headsets that will block out the noise of nearby toddlers & babies that were making such a racket you couldn't even hear the safety demo.

Saw the kid going through customs with her parents & infant sibling & on closer inspection she was wearing crocs on her feet so for heavens sake never allow your kids to wear these on a plane - ever.

 

[marki]

Re: Reclining

Nothing worse than pax reclining into my WP1 shadow.

I have to ditto no double ditto or triple if it exists

 

[legroom]

The only time it's ok to move into the middle seat is when you have the whole row to yourself. Taking someone's shadow just because you feel like reclining is very rude. I would never do that and so far I never saw anyone else doing that.

I had moved seat voluntarily before - in Y, J and also F - with/without checking with FAs.

But I have never moved to sit next to someone else as I'd consider that an 'invasion of space'.

Moving seat where there is another space in between pax is alright IMO as there is still a 'space'.

I don't like someone to sit next to me whenever they feel like it, if it is not their allocated seat - even in J.

 

[RooFlyer]

The only time it's ok to move into the middle seat is when you have the whole row to yourself. Taking someone's shadow just because you feel like reclining is very rude. I would never do that and so far I never saw anyone else doing that.

Firstly how does one know its a 'shadow' and not just an empty seat? Can anyone show me where QF T&Cs say that certain pax will be given an empty seat next to them and this is not to be occupied by anyone else?

In the absence of good answers to these, I would contend that no-one has 'rights' on a spare seat next to them, unless they paid for it. The FAs of course can regulate things if they so choose, and that's to be respected, but if you (I mean that generically) think you have access to two seats on a plane when you have only paid for one, please think again if you see me in an adjacent seat.

 

[Edge]

Personally I'll always check if there's someone behind be before reclining. I would never recline on a flight less than 2hrs if there's someone directly behind me. Surely that's just courtesy? You get such a marginal improvement to your own comfort at a more significant decrease in someone else's comfort (particularly if they're 6'5 like myself!). Had the person in front of me recline on my MEL-CBR flight on Tuesday.. :!:

 

[SeatBackForward]

If you want to complain about reclining..this is a photo from inside a bus in India

You can be on these things for over 12hrs, and they will be permanently reclined. You can even witness the bizarre spectacle of people using pillows/bags to prop themselves upright rather than push their seat forward. Its as if the mentality is "I paid for a reclined seat and damnit I'll recline it the whole way"

 

[BadgerBoi]

Mental note to self: the whY cabin to/from HNL on any airline at any time will be a zoo.

Last time I flew Y from SYD to HNL (on Hawaiian) it was exactly that. I knew we were in trouble when we were waiting at the gate and the agent had to shriek over the loudspeaker "if you don't keep the noise down and listen to my announcement we are not going to go anywhere". It was like a rowdy school assembly.

Half an hour into the flight we looked down to see a pair of fetid tootsies, replete with chipped orange nail polish, creeping into the space between the armrests on our seats. A short, sharp rap with a hefty paperback from my seatmate put and end to that. The shriek from behind that ensued was satisfying, even if technically my seatmate had committed assault and I was a willing accessory.

The behaviour from the boarding area continued for the entire flight. For once I didn't blame the FAs for pretty much hiding for the flight, I would have done the same if I could.

I would never fly eco to HNL again.

 

[mrpooky]

In the absence of good answers to these, I would contend that no-one has 'rights' on a spare seat next to them, unless they paid for it.

Why then, should someone else have 'rights' to move to another seat, unless they paid for it?

mrpooky.