QF says PER AKL service demand higher than expected.

[wandering_fred]

A lot of PER residents travelling to US/Canada also go via HKG because it is quicker - e.g. 1 stop to NYC versus 2 stops (SYD/MEL and the awful LAX) on QF.
They could make it attractive for Europe travel by codesharing with AY on HKG-HEL and onwards to Europe, and also with JL to Japan. That would be a start if CX/KA were to play hardball.

AY5016 is a codeshare of the QF PER-SIN flight.

I don't think I have ever seen Finnair advertising in Perth. The average traveler wouldn't know who they are.
And with QF intimately connected with EK, I seriously doubt you will ever see QF advertise the codeshare.

The real issue from Perth is that almost any airline with a through connection to Europe or USA will have fare prices that cannot compete with the same flights starting from SEAsia (combined with a SEAsia to Perth return)

I still would like to understand the logic of having QF and JQ flying PER to SIN within an hour of each other.

Happy wandering

Fred

 

[HKGNZL]

AY5016 is a codeshare of the QF PER-SIN flight.

I don't think I have ever seen Finnair advertising in Perth. The average traveler wouldn't know who they are.
And with QF intimately connected with EK, I seriously doubt you will ever see QF advertise the codeshare.

The real issue from Perth is that almost any airline with a through connection to Europe or USA will have fare prices that cannot compete with the same flights starting from SEAsia (combined with a SEAsia to Perth return)

I still would like to understand the logic of having QF and JQ flying PER to SIN within an hour of each other.

Happy wandering

Fred

If you go Expedia it sometimes suggest per-sin then sin-HEL-other European cities. They often make it much cheaper if the per-sin leg is in Y and the AY leg in J.

 

[mannej]

AY5016 is a codeshare of the QF PER-SIN flight.

I don't think I have ever seen Finnair advertising in Perth. The average traveler wouldn't know who they are.
And with QF intimately connected with EK, I seriously doubt you will ever see QF advertise the codeshare.

The real issue from Perth is that almost any airline with a through connection to Europe or USA will have fare prices that cannot compete with the same flights starting from SEAsia (combined with a SEAsia to Perth return)

I still would like to understand the logic of having QF and JQ flying PER to SIN within an hour of each other.

Happy wandering

Fred

AY certainly do have a rep here in Perth. I know her very well (I will be seeing her tomorrow). They certainly have their target market over here.

For some reason Finnair always had a sign up with the other airline signs outside the international terminal. I know it has been removed, but it wasn't that long ago.

 

[Simo]

I am guessing that VA and QF are looking at each other and trying to find Sectors and then running the numbers and seeing if it is a valid business case to make it happen.

I hope the consumer who is the one that wins.

 

[Melburnian1]

I am guessing that VA and QF are looking at each other and trying to find Sectors and then running the numbers and seeing if it is a valid business case to make it happen.

I hope the consumer who is the one that wins.

It should not be a surprise that a limited number of airlines (in this case, NZ and QF) can do well between PER and AKL. To be more successful, QF must move to daily.

Western Australia has the highest percentage of UK born migrants or residents in Australia if I recall. The recent history of the mining industry has attracted many Kiwis to the west.

One reason why QF may not expand ex PER is its high labour costs compared to competitors.

I agree that routes should ideally be daily or better. This is as true for QF as it is for TransWA, NSWTrainLink, QR, V/Line, VA or Greyhound Australia. Running routes daily builds passenger confidence and in turn passenger numbers. Of course, there has to be a reasonable base demand.

The Asian carriers ex PER understand that notwithstanding the ups and downs of the iron ore price or cost blowouts with Chevron's activities or State Government budgets, Perth has a pretty bright economic future. Its climate makes it attractive to new settlers. Its relative isolation to the rest of Australia may be a pain for some who have to constantly cross the continent on QF (less so on VA due to its excellent aircraft, 'A' and 'B' excluded as they're the older ones) but to a large number, what matters is proximity to Asia: DPS, SIN, MNL, HKG and KUL are all within an acceptable number of air kilometres.

 

[mannej]

Its relative isolation to the rest of Australia may be a pain for some who have to constantly cross the continent on QF (less so on VA due to its excellent aircraft, 'A' and 'B' excluded as they're the older ones).

There is hardly any difference in economy between the domestic A330's QF offer and the VA 330's. The international QF 330's are better than the ex-EK 330's as they have the AVO(I)D compared to the loop based IFE.

The differences in the J cabin are well documented so I won't go further off topic ;-)

 

[Melburnian1]

There is hardly any difference in economy between the domestic A330's QF offer and the VA 330's. The international QF 330's are better than the ex-EK 330's as they have the AVO(I)D compared to the loop based IFE.

The differences in the J cabin are well documented so I won't go further off topic ;-)

mannej, yes to clarify I was trying to refer to J not Y. Many AFF users are of vice regal stock and travel in J, unlike peasants like me who largely travel in Y and mostly pay for the ticket myself.

Some is historic in airline fleet types, but the transcontinental routes are arguably the most prestigious in Australia. All the more surprising as to why QF has allowed itself to be beaten in terms of the quality of its J cabin compared with VA's five out of seven terrific offering and pretty consistent service. MEL- PER - MEL carries more passengers than SYD - PER - SYD each month so there's an argument that VA should try to keep the less attractive XFA and XFB on the SYD route not the better patronised MEL route (although SYD's flying time is lengthier).

To return to the original topic, QF might be doing itself a favour if it dedicated a plane (with a spare for maintenance of course when required) undertaking PER - AKL - PER daily. It might win friends if it ensured that all flight times were dramatically different from NZ's, and continued that policy for good. At present the QF flights depart PER at 2030 for the overnight run to AKL which is only two hours and forty minutes behind NZ.

QF will have done its research and knows what sells and the five hour time difference at this time of the year has to be taken into account, but if NZ offers a daily frequency and a flight at reasonably similar times, many will choose that (depending also on price) rather than a twice weekly or less than daily offering from QF.

 

[mannej]

mannej, yes to clarify I was trying to refer to J not Y. Many AFF users are of vice regal stock and travel in J, unlike peasants like me who largely travel in Y and mostly pay for the ticket myself.

That is a generalization about the class of travel and is bordering on offensive.

 

[Melburnian1]

mannej, my apologies if the Internet is poor in transmitting humour. That was all it was meant to be.

Economy class is often called 'cattle class' for a reason.

 

[JohnK]

Sure QF's flights out of Asia look unsuitable but what else can they do? They had a 9:00am daytime flight SIN-SYD but that had mainly through traffic. If you were not already in SIN then it would more than likely require an overnight.

I like the current Qantas schedules to/from Asia but agree they could do a little more with PER and ADL.

What is wrong with tag flights a few days a week such as SYD-BNE-MNL and SYD-ADL-SIN? Or a few years back SFO-SYD-MEL-SYD-SFO.

In my opinion something such as SIN-PER-ADL-SIN-ADL-PER would be great. Yes it wont suit everyone but at least it is better than nothing.

 

[Isochronous]

AY certainly do have a rep here in Perth. I know her very well (I will be seeing her tomorrow). They certainly have their target market over here.

For some reason Finnair always had a sign up with the other airline signs outside the international terminal. I know it has been removed, but it wasn't that long ago.

I know AY codeshare on QF, but I was referring to QF codesharing on AY services. As far as I know they only do that on AY SIN-HEL. I'm saying they should put QF code on other AY services, e.g. from HKG, BKK and PVG. AY has a strong and growing Asian presence and provides a good oneworld alternative to BA.

If it adds a few extra passengers on to a PER-HKG service, it would be a few passengers more to profitability. Besides, with AA now flying DFW-HKG, QF should consider codesharing with AA on HKG-DFW to provide PER residents with a one-stop QF option to the USA.

 

[Mattg]

My understanding is that QF decided to try this because they were utilising an A332 which normally does domestic PER runs but normally sits idle in PER on weekends as more 737s are used on the PER routes. As a result, they didn't need to get any extra aircraft or take any off other routes.

 

[Supersonic Swinger]

I'm saying they should put QF code on other AY services, e.g. from HKG, BKK and PVG.

Doubt that will happen. Codeshares on AY might actually offer travelers to Europe options to stop in Asia and more routing flexibility. QF is now all about funneling passengers to Europe through DXB.

 

[wandering_fred]

I know AY codeshare on QF, but I was referring to QF codesharing on AY services. As far as I know they only do that on AY SIN-HEL. I'm saying they should put QF code on other AY services, e.g. from HKG, BKK and PVG. AY has a strong and growing Asian presence and provides a good oneworld alternative to BA.
If it adds a few extra passengers on to a PER-HKG service, it would be a few passengers more to profitability. Besides, with AA now flying DFW-HKG, QF should consider codesharing with AA on HKG-DFW to provide PER residents with a one-stop QF option to the USA.

Given the price changes on the BA code shares for SIN-PER-SIN I would venture that QF doesn't really care if they sell space to BA on that route. Granted I haven't looked at flights continuing to/from LHR. But given that the O Q and N class flights credit so little to AA, one does have to look for alternatives. Especially when the Y cabin SC credits to QF are not much better.

On PER-HKG, I would love to see CX have an AA code share. Or even on a QF flight - if such a thing existed. :shock: (I seem to recall it may have historically). Considering the route, I find it very interesting that the QF HKG website pages will insist that at least one direction of a HKG-PER-HKG ticket be routed via SIN (with a CX flight number HKG-SIN or return). That is, it will not sell you HKG-SYD-PER-SYD-HKG.

Another PER question for QF though, is - why when QF dropped the second PER-SIN flight did they add a 3K flight PER-SIN that flies within an hour of the (remaining) daily QF flight. The only thing I can think of is that they would like the QF flight to be so unprofitable that they could justify dropping that as well. :shock: Perhaps if they had retained their afternoon flight @ about 1500, they would convince/coerce some of the AKL-PER passengers to continue on to SIN (thus avoiding SYD/MEL)

Enough wandering through the speculation on a holiday.

Fred

 

[HKGNZL]

On PER-HKG, I would love to see CX have an AA code share. Or even on a QF flight - if such a thing existed. :shock: (I seem to recall it may have historically). Considering the route, I find it very interesting that the QF HKG website pages will insist that at least one direction of a HKG-PER-HKG ticket be routed via SIN (with a CX flight number HKG-SIN or return). That is, it will not sell you HKG-SYD-PER-SYD-HKG.

Fred[/QUOTE]

Who in their right mind would fly between HKG and PER via Sydney, turning a 7-8 hr journey into a 18 hr one?

 

[wandering_fred]

Quoting my earlier post
On PER-HKG, I would love to see CX have an AA code share. Or even on a QF flight - if such a thing existed. :shock: (I seem to recall it may have historically). Considering the route, I find it very interesting that the QF HKG website pages will insist that at least one direction of a HKG-PER-HKG ticket be routed via SIN (with a CX flight number HKG-SIN or return). That is, it will not sell you HKG-SYD-PER-SYD-HKG.

...

Who in their right mind would fly between HKG and PER via Sydney, turning a 7-8 hr journey into a 18 hr one?

When you are retired, spending time does not have the urgency of earlier days.

Crediting to AA, QF's direct flight SIN-PER-SIN will only yield full mileage if you purchase the fully flex fare. That's a bit more than SGD 600 each way. Historically, BA has offered a Y+ round trip to SYD, with a B class leg to/from PER (accepting the lousy connection times for the code shares) for about SGD$60 extra each way. Instead of 4840 EQM and EQP, that yields a bit less than 12K EQM and 18K EQP. It sort of works with QF as well, if you are flying to eastern cities, but QF has only limited PremY flights to/from SIN due to unwillingness of QF to install those seats on A330s. As well it's a chance to visit the SYD lounges.

HKG is actually a bit more complicated as CX requires H class in the Y cabin before they will credit to AA. And the QF flex saver fares via SIN use K class on CX. Thus no credit to AA. And no Y+ available (except direct HKG-PER on CX). So on the Super Saver K class fare, 4840 EQM and EQP to AA via SIN. Full Flex is B class and HKD2200 extra for 8K EQM and 12K EQP. via SYD (an extra 2500HKD each way), QF makes certain the domestic leg is in a less expensive fare class (typically S) but would be 11K EQM and 10K EQP.

Alas I haven't checked in detail, but I think the BA fares (with code shares) are going up in 2014.

Apologies for the lengthy discussion of AA's program which treats economy (and y+) flying rather more generously than QF's. And note that QF's fare classes starting ex-Australia are lower and the fares are higher.

Happy wandering

Fred

 

[mannej]

Who in their right mind would fly between HKG and PER via Sydney, turning a 7-8 hr journey into a 18 hr one?

That was the issue originally.

The SYD option was what QF offered, and there were a few members on here not too impressed. QF reluctantly put them on the services via SIN.

Not everyone has the mileage mentality and would much prefer the convenience if they can't fly direct

 

[Mattg]

Just thought I would mention that it appears Qantas will be bringing back the direct PER-AKL flights over next summer, with the first flight departing on 5 December, 2014.

 

[markis10]

Just thought I would mention that it appears Qantas will be bringing back the direct PER-AKL flights over next summer, with the first flight departing on 5 December, 2014.

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....as-announces-second-season-per_akl-59317.html

 

[Danger]

Just thought I would mention that it appears Qantas will be bringing back the direct PER-AKL flights over next summer, with the first flight departing on 5 December, 2014.

Interesting.