QF needs more metal into PVG, PEK and better HKG connections

[Isochronous]

I flew CX on their 9am HKG-PEK flight on a weekend recently and was struck by how many people I noticed on the plane and in the immigration queue with Australian accents and passports. They also seemed to be predominantly from MEL, having connected on the midnight MEL-HKG CX flight.

Yet more evidence that QF will become a Sydney airline rather than an Australian airline if they cannot even win market share to HKG from MEL. As many pointed out, from MEL you can only leave at 1415 and arrive at 2100-2200 which means you have to overnight in HKG before connecting elsewhere in China or on CX/BA/AY etc elsewhere. Even if you could it would mean an arrival time in the 0100-0400 window that few people would be interested in.

I assume the problem is even worse out of BNE/PER.

 

[DTM1]

I agree. The change in the QF schedule to HKG means that I have given up flying QF to China. When flying to Beijing, you still have to stop in PVG if you fly QF ex-SYD - how ridiculous. I can't be bothered flying QF to china any more, even via SYD. If I have to stop anywhere, I much perfer HKG to SYD, and the CX connections are so much better.

QF has apparently decided that it doesn't care about China bound pax (at least from MEL) and prefers to focus on connections with BA to/from UK - how ridiculous. I hope the numbers stack up for QF, because I know many people who have now swapped QF for CX (and they are all high revenue, front of plane pax).

Perhaps something for the new head of QFi to look at ?

 

[moa999]

But thats the problem.

CX has the HKG hub and say prices $4000 for MEL-HKG and $2000 HKG-PEK.
but then $4500 for MEL-HKG-PEK

QF generally match the MEL-HKG but unless they get a super cheap price from CX (unlikely as they are a competitor) they can't offer a competitive connection price.
And seemingly the loads for a direct service MEL-PEK aren't there - they aren't there for SYD-PEK.

Same problem in SIN, which was part of what RedQ was about.

 

[Limewood]

Try CNS/HKG/CNS on CX in J its about $7.5K! yes $7500 for 7 hour return!, or can sit in those awful Y seats they still have on these sectors for about $1500, QA did this run years ago gave it up, since then with near full aircraft CX is loving it while Qantas are still in the clouds

 

[trentusjuventus]

I assume the problem is even worse out of BNE/PER.

Yep it ain't too flash up here in BNE either. The only QF flight, 12:05pm BNE-HKG leaves you pretty short for connections when you get to HKG at about 18:00, and only 4 departures per week IIRC. Was originally taking this flight next week with a connection to TPE which is okay as TPE is only about 90 mins, but I wouldn't like you chances of connecting to PEK/PVG or anywhere else in North Asia. Changed however to CX 156 with a nice overnight flight in J (albeit coffins) which can have me in TPE at a more reasonable hour . Looked into going BNE-PEK at one stage and it was just about impossible to do on QF metal alone, without going via SYD first or HKG/PVG afterwards.

Also, I will be taking KA from HKG to PEK in August and will be listening keenly for these accents mentioned by the OP.

 

[mannej]

From memory the QF flight leaves PER at 22:30 thrice weekly. It is a good service for connection wise, however terminating in HKG it can be a pain.

Compare that to CX who do have double daily services, it does make you wonder...

 

[docjames]

This thread illustrates why QFi needs the 787s more than JQ.

 

[browski]

Qantas do fly to Beijing from Melbourne.....and it is not routed via PVG. I did this route 3 weeks ago.
QF fly MEL-SYD (7.00am-8.25am) then SYD-HKG (10.40am-6.00pm)
Then DragonAir fly HKG-PEK (7.00pm-10.30pm).

I'm not sure which part of Alan Joyce's strategy people fail to understand.

QANTAS Intl only cut routes. Repeat again Qantas Intl will only reduce routes. Or perhaps put another way; Qantas Intl are NOT adding any new routes. There will be NO new Qantas Intl metal flights ANYWHERE. Why is this so hard to understand?
Is it a good strategy? I think NOT. But it is what it is.

Also the current QF MEL-HKG option is fantastic if your final destination is HKG OR if you connect with the CX flight through to LHR.

Finally, you know that AJ really loves you when he selflessly gives you his one true love..............the JQ flight MEL-SIN-PEK.

 

[RickyT84]

From memory the QF flight leaves PER at 22:30 thrice weekly. It is a good service for connection wise, however terminating in HKG it can be a pain.

Compare that to CX who do have double daily services, it does make you wonder...

The QF flight from PER now leaves at 11:00 and gets to HKG at 18:55. Like the BNE flights, it is timed to connect with BA/AY's services to Europe (although with a longish layover of 4.5 hours).

Unless QF builds stronger ties with CX (unlikely to happen), it is unlikely we will see more flights to HKG from QF as many posters have pointed out, the QF flights do not allow many (if any) connections with flights within Asia.

 

[mannej]

The QF flight from PER now leaves at 11:00 and gets to HKG at 18:55. Like the BNE flights, it is timed to connect with BA/AY's services to Europe (although with a longish layover of 4.5 hours).

Unless QF builds stronger ties with CX (unlikely to happen), it is unlikely we will see more flights to HKG from QF as many posters have pointed out, the QF flights do not allow many (if any) connections with flights within Asia.

I should have remembered that change

Timing wise the new flight really isn't that great is it?

(4.5 Hours in the HKG lounges isn't that bad of an idea for some!)

 

[Andyzx]

Qantas do fly to Beijing from Melbourne.....and it is not routed via PVG. I did this route 3 weeks ago.
QF fly MEL-SYD (7.00am-8.25am) then SYD-HKG (10.40am-6.00pm) Then DragonAir fly HKG-PEK (7.00pm-10.30pm).

Did similar to PVG (Shanghai) in May expected ETD 10.40am actual departure 12.37pm.. missed Dragon air connection arrived hotel 1.30am vs 9.30pm. Was not a pretty sight early the next morning (well worse than usual). On my return there was a group of 12 also trying to organise connections with dragon air and CX as their QF127 had arrived an hour late.

The QF127 and 128 are notorious for late departures.
e.g. last 3 days of QF127 from the QF website
Departure 10:40 (Sun) 12:03 (Sun) Departed
Departure 10:40 (Mon) 10:48 (Mon) Departed
Departure 10:40 (Tue) 11:24 (Tue) Departed

Its no wonder that we fly CX which has a better timetable and earlier flight

 

[browski]

The QF127 and 128 are notorious for late departures.
Its no wonder that we fly CX which has a better timetable and earlier flight

It should also be noted that the Dragonair/CX flights from HKG-PEK are also often delayed.

It seems PEK airport has serious traffic issues and if you miss your slot then you are often held on the ground in HKG awaiting departure clearance from PEK. This has happened to me twice this year.
For my next flight I've decided to try out the MEL-ICN-PEK Korean Airlines option on A330/B777 combo.
Depart MEL 7.45am Arrive PEK 8.05pm
Depart PEK 1.20pm Arrive MEL 6.10am
Total travel time: 14.30min each way.

 

[BD1959]

This thread illustrates why QFi needs the 787s more than JQ.

Finally, you know that AJ really loves you when he selflessly gives you his one true love..............the JQ flight MEL-SIN-PEK.

It'll be interesting to see whether the frequency changes once/if the JQ HK venture gets off the ground ... and whether any increased frequency to/from HKG has a red or orange tail.

Regards,

BD

 

[Isochronous]

But thats the problem.

CX has the HKG hub and say prices $4000 for MEL-HKG and $2000 HKG-PEK.
but then $4500 for MEL-HKG-PEK

QF generally match the MEL-HKG but unless they get a super cheap price from CX (unlikely as they are a competitor) they can't offer a competitive connection price.
And seemingly the loads for a direct service MEL-PEK aren't there - they aren't there for SYD-PEK.

Same problem in SIN, which was part of what RedQ was about.

This time I needed to stop in HKG for a few days anyway so went QF via SYD on the A380. I actually booked the whole thing MEL-SYD-HKG-PEK-HKG-MEL on QF (which put me on to CX and KA for the PEK leg, obviously) and it was A$300 cheaper than booking the whole lot with CX, and $800 cheaper than booking CX/KA on HKG-PEK separately.

Even if QF going to PEK is too hard surely they can improve their position in HKG - they are investing in a new First Lounge there so you'd think they're committed to growing the business there.

It'll be interesting to see whether the frequency changes once/if the JQ HK venture gets off the ground ... and whether any increased frequency to/from HKG has a red or orange tail.

Regards,

BD

I will not be flying the orange cancer to HKG. Period.

 

[cmon0005]

I was looking at flying to HKG and then onto another destination later in the year from MEL.

However only option for me to fly direct was with QF29 MEL-HKG, although on an A330 (which I don't mind but prefer A380 or B747 as it offers PE).
I don't really want to fly via Sydney just to get my aircraft choice. So I may as well fly CX as they offer 3 daily flights from MEL (still on A330).

Lack of daily flights to HKG and SIN from MEL on QF metal does limit choices.

 

[amaroo]

Thank the heavens that CX is part of OW. Geez, if they ever left the alliance, QF would be in all sorts of trouble. Leaving HKG to CX just seems crazy to me.

 

[elbarto]

Thank the heavens that CX is part of OW. Geez, if they ever left the alliance, QF would be in all sorts of trouble. Leaving HKG to CX just seems crazy to me.

It is, but CX also seems to be the issue in OW gaining better coverage in China. And all of the big three in China have joined the other alliances.

 

[RickyT84]

Lack of daily flights to HKG and SIN from MEL on QF metal does limit choices.

QF does offer daily flights to/from HKG (QF29/30) and SIN (QF9/10) from MEL. It also has a daily JQ flight to SIN also (JQ7/8).

 

[cmon0005]

QF does offer daily flights to/from HKG (QF29/30) and SIN (QF9/10) from MEL. It also has a daily JQ flight to SIN also (JQ7/8).

Yes I know, what I meant is there is only one coughpy timed choice on old aircraft to HKG on QF metal. SIN again only one flight per day on a good plane with badly timed departure.

For eg. QF9 arrives too late for the 9W Jetairways codeshare to connect to Mumbai, there used to be a QF metal connection to Mumbai but they scrapped it.. now only option is via Perth to connect to 9W. or stay overnight in SIN.
or go via HKG on CX

 

[RickyT84]

Yes I know, what I meant is there is only one coughpy timed choice on old aircraft to HKG on QF metal. SIN again only one flight per day on a good plane with badly timed departure.

Sorry, I misread your post. I agree with you that the timing of QF departures to HKG and SIN from MEL (and other Australian ports, with the exception of PER to SIN, and SYD to HKG) are poor in terms of connections with flights within Asia, but QF has decided that it is more important to maintain connections with Europe bound flights.