QF Engineers set to strike !

[Commuter]

By the way, BAA strike has been called off.

BBC NEWS | Business | UK airport strikes are called off

 

[Reggie]

By the way, BAA strike has been called off.

BBC NEWS | Business | UK airport strikes are called off

Commuter,

QF009 has started a thread about this here:

http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/community/travel-articles/baa-airport-strikes-called-off-11887.html

 

[rhjames]

Whilst I am not opposed with the fundamental right to withdraw labour, I disagree with striking being anything other than the absolute last resort in resolving workplace disputes. There is no evidence to suggest that striking delivers a beneficial outcome that is over and above what can be achieved by less militant behaviour.

I fully agree. I don't understand how they expect to get more money by reducing profits. I predicted that if Labor won the election, we’d see a threatened transport strike during these holidays. The ALAEA is set to get the ball rolling. With CPI at 2.4%, I would think that the offer of 3% plus 1% superannuation is already over generous, particularly when high fuel prices are putting pressure on Qantas. Whether the engineers have a legitimate claim or not, I find it shameful that the ALAEA chooses strike action during the holiday period. If Qantas backs down on this, it opens the gates for more wage increases above CPI. We, the consumer end up paying, which offsets our pay increases, and suddenly we have high inflation, high unemployment, and the mess many of us remember many years ago under Labor. Now let’s see who’s really running our country. Kevin Rudd had the balls to go to a strip club, let’s see him now put them to good use. I’d be happy to work for Qantas for free during the strike, and, not for the first time, be proud to be called “scab”.

 

[Evan]

I fully agree. I don't understand how they expect to get more money by reducing profits. I predicted that if Labor won the election, we’d see a threatened transport strike during these holidays. The ALAEA is set to get the ball rolling. With CPI at 2.4%, I would think that the offer of 3% plus 1% superannuation is already over generous, particularly when high fuel prices are putting pressure on Qantas. Whether the engineers have a legitimate claim or not, I find it shameful that the ALAEA chooses strike action during the holiday period. If Qantas backs down on this, it opens the gates for more wage increases above CPI. We, the consumer end up paying, which offsets our pay increases, and suddenly we have high inflation, high unemployment, and the mess many of us remember many years ago under Labor. Now let’s see who’s really running our country. Kevin Rudd had the balls to go to a strip club, let’s see him now put them to good use. I’d be happy to work for Qantas for free during the strike, and, not for the first time, be proud to be called “scab”.

I could have not said it better myself ! If you think you derserve more pay becuase you increased productivity etc or are now more skilled then there is a process to re-negiotiate you own contract... or find another job.

 

[rhjames]

By the way 3% is just around inflation so the employees dont make a cent out of the QF offer. And when you have a mortgage to pay an extra 1% in super aint going to cut it.

Not quite - CPI is 2.4%. 3% plus 1% is 4%. So the offer being rejected is already 67% above CPI. Very generous. Keep in mind that if mortgage costs (or any other costs) go up, it's not the responsibility of an employer to compensate for this. For example higher fuel prices. Airlines cop this already - don't expect them to pay more to their employees to compensate them as well for increased petrol prices. Using the same logic you could just as well ask the employees to reduce wages to compensate their employer. Companies and individuals have to bear the burden of increased interest rates and fuel costs.

 

[Yada Yada]

Not quite - CPI is 2.4%. 3% plus 1% is 4%. So the offer being rejected is already 67% above CPI. Very generous. Keep in mind that if mortgage costs (or any other costs) go up, it's not the responsibility of an employer to compensate for this. For example higher fuel prices. Airlines cop this already - don't expect them to pay more to their employees to compensate them as well for increased petrol prices. Using the same logic you could just as well ask the employees to reduce wages to compensate their employer. Companies and individuals have to bear the burden of increased interest rates and fuel costs.

I have to say that 4% is still not much on the wages these guys earn. When Geoff Dixon can score himself a pay increase of over 75% it's difficult to refuse a meagre rise for the guys checking the safety of the aircraft. QF themselves downsized the engineer workforce so they have no-one to blame but themselves.

As for your comments about Labor etc, this strike was coming before the election was held. You simply cannot blame it on the Labor party. Unless you also want to blame the waterfront strike on the Liberal party!

 

[Keith009]

Or if management is truly afraid of a wage blowout - why won't they cut their own salaries, lurks and perks first as opposed to a 75% salary increase for the CEO? I don't think Dixon singlehandedly contributed to a 75% increase in productivity either.

PS - and yes I do have QF flights around the strike period...:-|

 

[Keith009]

Delays possible as Qantas talks fail - National - theage.com.au

The engineers' union wrote to Qantas late yesterday after day-long talks broke down, informing the airline that its members would be banned from working overtime from Wednesday.

...
Paul Cousins, federal president of the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association, said the protected industrial action would include stop-work meetings and secondments if the dispute was not resolved quickly.


"When the overtime bans kick in you probably won't see an immediate impact, but it will all depend on the serviceability within the fleet," he said. "If the serviceability remains high then you probably won't see a lot of effect, but if it starts to decline and you have a couple of aircraft go to the US, then they obviously won't be able to draw on extra manpower, and that is when some aircraft may need to be grounded."

 

[rhjames]

As for your comments about Labor etc, this strike was coming before the election was held. You simply cannot blame it on the Labor party. Unless you also want to blame the waterfront strike on the Liberal party!

I don't blame the Labor party - I blame the union. I want to see what the government does about it. As I said before, the timing of the strike aimed to disrupt the holidays smells of the old union dominated days. We've had a break from this for many years.

 

[Hvr]

I don't blame the Labor party - I blame the union. I want to see what the government does about it. As I said before, the timing of the strike aimed to disrupt the holidays smells of the old union dominated days. We've had a break from this for many years.

Why should the government do anything?

Qantas has a highly paid board and executive team to deal with industrial relations matters. They are there to run the company and if they need government assitance to do this then they probably aren't the best peple for the job they are occupying.

Interesting that virtually all the criticism is directed at the union (i.e. the workers). There are always at least 2 parties to a dispute and it is rare that only one party is totally at fault. Yet that is how this dispute is being portrayed. The nasty greedy and basically non essential engineers are going to bankrupt Qantas which the poor overpaid board members have tirelessly worked to build up.

If the engineers were truly not needed they shouldn't be employed (and they wouldn't be). Given they have an essential role they should be paid a wage appropriate to their skills.

Mention has been made of productivity improvements. Does anyone here really beleive that if the engineers improved their productivity 10% that they would get a 10% payrise? And pigs might fly.

Finally, how long have the negotiations been going on? Maybe the threat of a strike is needed to get Qantas to bargain in good faith or even to come to the table and negotiate. A take it or leave it offer may work in the short term but a dissatisfied work force is not going to be productive or even safe.

Sounds like the engineers do have lots of options and with time they may realise that they would be better off moving elsewhere to further their career. Then where would Qantas be?

 

[rhjames]

Interesting that virtually all the criticism is directed at the union (i.e. the workers).

Of course we blame the union - it's the union that chose the timing of the strike to disrupt the holiday period.

I don't necessarily agree that the workers and union are the same. I've experienced plenty of industrial action where workers have discreetly apologised to me because the union (through strong arm members and public ballot) forced the issue. I'm not suggesting this is the case here - I don't know the conditions.

However, an offer 67% above CPI still sounds generous.
The strike has been aimed at the most disruptive time to the innocent public. I believe this just causes loss of public support. I'd like to think that the engineers are above this level of action.

 

[pauly7]

Sounds like the engineers do have lots of options and with time they may realise that they would be better off moving elsewhere to further their career. Then where would Qantas be?

LMAO, the engineers do very well at QF. Very well. That is why, even if they don't get what they want i can guarantee that you won't see droves of them leaving QF.

You are right though they do have the choice, we all know how tight the labour market is and it certainly doesn't exclude engineers.

Oh and for all the people poking fun at Labor, Ms Gillard has said the govt will come down like a tonne of bricks on illegal industrial activity by unions. Yep I can see that happening.

 

[JohnK]

I have to say that 4% is still not much on the wages these guys earn. When Geoff Dixon can score himself a pay increase of over 75% it's difficult to refuse a meagre rise for the guys checking the safety of the aircraft.

This is one of the biggest problems corporations face today. The increase, or the expectation, in upper management salary packages is not realistic or in line with the rest of the workforce. How anyone can justify a 75% increase in salary package for Geoff Dixon is beyond me....

 

[Keith009]

I think certain individuals seem to have missed the point that this is protected industrial action - yes even under Workchoices. A proper and lawful process was adhered to in organising the industrial action. Please get the facts right. Restrictions on industrial action will remain under Labor policy.

 

[rhjames]

This is one of the biggest problems corporations face today. The increase, or the expectation, in upper management salary packages is not realistic or in line with the rest of the workforce. How anyone can justify a 75% increase in salary package for Geoff Dixon is beyond me....

Fully agree - executive packages at this level are way over the top. I see no reason why they shouldn't be linked to CPI. However, it's a matter of supply and demand. While companies pay at this level, it will be exploited.

 

[serfty]

View from 11D on ZK-JTP

I posted this on FT, I consider this is the appropriate thread to post it to on AFF as well. I believe the thread title indicates the cause of the events I experienced last night.

Yesterday's QF39 is to operate today - 15 hours late. ...

Yeah, tell me about it!

(Serfty, posting from downtown 'patto' (read home) when it was supposed to be AKL!.)

A bit of a time line:

Flight was scheduled for 7:30pm. The flight was reasonably full with about a dozen spare seats.

• 1855:
  I left the lounge and went to the gate to await boarding.
• 1900:
  Boarding commenced
• 1930:
  Captain: "an indicator light was showing a malfunction which needed to be checked out." He estimate about 15 minutes for this.
• 1940:
  FA's start handing out newspapers, magazines and cups of water to WHY PAX.
• 2010:
  Captain: "a part needed replacing" and it should take an additional 30 minutes.
• 2020:
  Headsets were distributed and the movie for AKL-MEL began showing.
• 2040:
  Captain: "the part had been replaced, we would be departing as soon as paperwork completed". He asked the cabin crew to "prepare for takeoff".
• 2110:
  Captain: "As the aircraft was NZ registered, the paperwork needed to be authorized by NZ engineering" - this was taking longer than expected.
• 2130:
  FA's came though cabin distributing those foil bags of nut mix. (Normally only seen in J).
• 2150:
  Captain: "Still waiting" - cannot give a time. Noted it was nearly midnight in NZ.
• 2215:
  Captain: "Apparently, 'a wrong part' had been fitted and it need to be redone with the 'correct part'". This would take another 50 minutes.
• 2220:
  CSM: "A bar service would be commenced from rear of cabin; could all those standing in the aisle please retake their seats."
• 2240: The scheduled MEL-AKL movie began showing.
• 2245:
  I noted those in J were being served their meals however only beer, wine, spirits and nuts were available down the back.
• 2330:
  Qantas MEL Station Manager: Apologies, but we would need to be offloaded. Points mentioned were:
  • Crew would soon be 'out of hours'
  • Information from engineers was ever changing, it kept being "another 15 minutes"
  • Need approval from Custom/Immigration to offload
  • Those who wanted to go home would be given taxi vouchers
  • Others would be put up overnight at the Hilton
  • A $14 Meal voucher valid for MEL food outlets would be available
  • They would endeavor to finish eradicating the fault so the aircraft, but could not advise when that would be.
  • If the fault could not be fixed all PAX could be rebooked on the QF25 744 schedule to depart MEL the next morning at 10:45am.
  • Baggage needed to be offloaded and collected.
  • We were to wait until advised to disembark one arranges had been made.
  There were a few shouts of "Boo" and "No" along with other disgruntled noises from various parts of the cabin. But presented with a fait accompli People got up and started gathering their belongings.
• 2350:
  Passenger were asked to disembark. This was done in an orderly fashion, basically the same as I have seen many hundreds of times. We filed down through immigration where our passports were scanned and proceeded to the baggage reclaim hall where there was quite a queue as people waited to collect their documentation for accommodation/taxi vouchers and meal vouchers. While waiting an announcement was made the luggage would be coming out soon.
• 0010:
  It took about 15 minutes for me to reach the front of the queue. I obtained a promise to rebook my flights for next weekend, 2 Taxi Vouchers and a $14 meal voucher (QF25 was due to arrive at the same time my booked return flight from AKL to MEL was due to depart).
• 0015:
  No luggage had appeared as yet on the carousel. As I only had carry-on this did not affect me. I went out into the arrivals hall and converted my $14 voucher into a beer and toasted Sandwich.
• 0030:
  I caught a taxi from the rank.
• 0130:
  Arrived home much to the surprise of To Market To Market! (I had not contacted her at any stage, she is a nervous flyer and I did not wish to cause her any undue worry)

Checking this morning I see my flights have indeed been rebooked for the coming weekend.

As to the reasons for the delay; one can only speculate, but I believe this is the appropriate thread to place this post.

As far as Qantas' handling of the issue goes; once it was decided to deplane the passengers it was very well organized. As to the 260 minute sojourn on the Aircraft, I really think we could have been offloaded earlier, certainly around the time the announcement was made that the captain really did not know how long it would take to get NZ Engineering approval (~9:50pm).

I now have to contact the Duty Free Store in NZ with whom I had pre-ordered stuff for collection today.

 

[Fluid-Flyer]

View from 11D on ZK-JTP

Probably like many others, I sit back and think -

• the engineers should probably get a fair go, after all the company is going gang busters profit-wise
• the world economy looks like its heading for hard times, so corporate belt tightening is probably a good thing
• jeeze, these guys/gals should all sit down and sort it out

And then you read something like this happening and it becomes personal. What an unfortunate way to spend a Friday night. Hope the trip purpose wasn't critical.

 

[rhjames]

Re: View from 11D on ZK-JTP

I posted this on FT, I consider this is the appropriate thread to post it to on AFF as well. I believe the thread title indicates the cause of the events I experienced last night.

I can imagine it was very frustrating. The thing that sticks in my mind is the claim that an incorrect part was firred. If correct, this is a significant error that shouldn't be possible. Perhaps if the correct part had been fitted originally, you would have at least flown that night. We'll never know.

 

[Chucksta]

I was in the AA Flagship lounge at LAX T4 on Monday (2 June).

I saw alot of QF passengers in there and there were many PAs about QF12 being delayed overnight. It was meant to depart at 22:30 and was delayed until 10:30 the next morning :shock:

I spoke to a people at the AA flagship lounge today (after flying LAS-LAX) and she said that almost every QF flight lately have been affected into and out of LAX because of engineering strikes in Australia. Can anyone shed any light on this?

Also if anyone is interested, I could use the flagship AA lounge at LAX as an arrivals lounge. The lady told me that because i am WP and I have flown American today, I am welcomed to use the "emeralds lounge" and handed me a white keycard for the 'secret door'. We had no onward flight and waited in the lounge for our friends to pick us up at the airport after work.

 

[straitman]

Re: View from 11D on ZK-JTP

I can imagine it was very frustrating. The thing that sticks in my mind is the claim that an incorrect part was firred. If correct, this is a significant error that shouldn't be possible. Perhaps if the correct part had been fitted originally, you would have at least flown that night. We'll never know.

rhjames,

The maintenance system requires that a second independent inspection is carried out after any maintenance. This obviously achieved its aim though causing a second delay.

There are many reasons why an incorrect part could have been fitted and procedures would always be assessed to work out how and why it could have happened. It is more important though, that the error was picked up than worrying about whether they would have flown that night or not.