Qantas refund missing

[garol]

I cancelled a Qantas redemption booking for an Emirates flight in July. The points were refunded promptly but the taxes portion (over $1200) was refunded to an ANZ credit card that was already closed.

3 months later during which I have made 5 calls to Qantas, 3 calls to ANZ and 3 x Qantas support requests, ANZ is adamant the money was sent back to Qantas in July (they have confirmed this in writing in both SMS and a letter), and Qantas is adamant the money is with ANZ and keeps telling me to go back to them.

I have run out of options, does anyone have any suggestions on where to go from here?

 

[MH_fan]

Yikes! I have been waiting 3 months for a refund of the taxes from a cancelled redemption booking where only my credit card expiry changed!
I don't know how they could have refunded the money to your credit card when it no longer existed. I bet it's still with the airline. If they had attempted to refund the money and your credit card no longer existed, it would have bounced straight back to them. I would trust ANZ more than Qantas in your situation!

 

[aikman]

Tough one. Definitely a case of prevention being better than a cure. I can see the money being with either Qantas or ANZ, lost in their system somewhere. I believe the most common outcome is that the bank sends you a cheque for the refund when the card is closed but this may vary between banks. Good luck.

 

[one9]

Yes it's a tough one as it's hard to be sure where the money is. You may need to escalate the issue with either the bank or Qantas. If escalating it with the bank, I would be wanting to know exact details of the two transactions. eg. Date/time/amount etc of the refund and date/time/amount etc of when the funds were sent back to Qantas.

I had a somewhat similar issue, but with a different bank and the funds were being held in some internal sundry type account of the bank. From my understanding (which could be wrong), if a credit card refund is successful, the money is with the bank. There isn't a process where the bank can later give the funds back to the merchant. At some point after the card is closed (6 months? 2 years? expiry date of the card?) the card will no longer accept refunds and trying to refund the card will give an instant failure.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yes it's a tough one as it's hard to be sure where the money is. You may need to escalate the issue with either the bank or Qantas. If escalating it with the bank, I would be wanting to know exact details of the two transactions. eg. Date/time/amount etc of the refund and date/time/amount etc of when the funds were sent back to Qantas.

I had a somewhat similar issue, but with a different bank and the funds were being held in some internal sundry type account of the bank. From my understanding (which could be wrong), if a credit card refund is successful, the money is with the bank. There isn't a process where the bank can later give the funds back to the merchant. At some point after the card is closed (6 months? 2 years? expiry date of the card?) the card will no longer accept refunds and trying to refund the card will give an instant failure.

My thinking is the same as yours. Monies can be refunded into closed or cancelled credit cards, just as payments (debits) can come out.

Usually the bank holds it as a credit until you tell them where you’d like to send it, but obviously in this case that hasn’t happened. My bet is on the $$ being somewhere at ANZ?

 

[markis10]

don't know how they could have refunded the money to your credit card when it no longer existed. I bet it's still with the airline. If they had attempted to refund the money and your credit card no longer existed, it would have bounced straight back to them

Payment systems don’t work that way, a card not present refund does not seek an authorisation like a card present would.

 

[serfty]

Usually the bank holds it as a credit until you tell them where you’d like to send it, but obviously in this case that hasn’t happened. My bet is on the $$ being somewhere at ANZ?

This is almost certainly the case.

I have run out of options, does anyone have any suggestions on where to go from here?

It is up to the ANZ to prove they sent the funds back to Qantas. I'd suggest revisiting your complaint with the ANZ, asking for documentary proof.

ANZ Complaint Form | ANZ

ANZ values its customers and we are committed to meeting your expectations. To help resolve your issue, please fill out our online complaint form.

www.anz.com.au

If that fails again, raise it with AFCA:

https://www.afca.org.au/make-a-complaint/credit-finance-and-loan-complaints

 

[garol]

I called ANZ again on Monday and they have now provided me a letter confirming the original transaction, that the refund was received by ANZ, but that it was returned to the merchant (Qantas) as it had not been claimed within 7 days.
Just lodged my 4th support case with Qantas attaching this letter, hopefully they can finally find it.

One of the frustrating things is that aside from an initial email from Qantas confirming the refund has been processed and to allow 21 days, neither Qantas nor ANZ notified me to say the refund had been processed or received, so I dont know how we can claim it within a 7 day period if we are not notified by anyone.

 

[SYD]

I recently had a partial refund due to an involuntary downgrade. SYD+1 (seperate ticket, same flight) received an email advising the refund was coming. I didn’t.

Quickly realised that the original ticket was booked on a card I had to replace (fraudulent transaction) so called QF and they updated their records. Email arrived shortly after and cash back a few days later.

 

[Falcs]

The last time I had a refund to an expired card (thanks Covid!) I believe it bounced and the airline (Malaysian) asked me for bank details and paid me by EFT. I suspect Qantas is being a bit lazy with reconciling their bank accounts

 

[garol]

As an update, I now have letters from ANZ confirming the date they received the refund, and the date they returned the money back to Qantas because the credit card was closed.
I have also disputed the transaction with ANZ, and they have provided a letter confirming the result of the dispute is that the money was returned to Qantas.
I have provided these letters to Qantas multiple times to let them know the refund did take place, but that it was to a closed card and the money was returned on a specific date in July.
Every single phone call and every single online complaint, they always come back and say 'the refund took place, contact your bank'
ANZ have provided all the written evidence but Qantas is just ignoring it.

Qantas has my $1238.75 refund since July and are refusing to refund it to me. They will not provide a letter confirming their bank has not recieved the money back on the specific date ANZ provided either. They keep saying the original refund took place, which no one is denying.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

As an update, I now have letters from ANZ confirming the date they received the refund, and the date they returned the money back to Qantas because the credit card was closed.
I have also disputed the transaction with ANZ, and they have provided a letter confirming the result of the dispute is that the money was returned to Qantas.
I have provided these letters to Qantas multiple times to let them know the refund did take place, but that it was to a closed card and the money was returned on a specific date in July.
Every single phone call and every single online complaint, they always come back and say 'the refund took place, contact your bank'
ANZ have provided all the written evidence but Qantas is just ignoring it.

Qantas has my $1238.75 refund since July and are refusing to refund it to me. They will not provide a letter confirming their bank has not recieved the money back on the specific date ANZ provided either. They keep saying the original refund took place, which no one is denying.

Something is weird here.

There’s a thread on reddit where the same thing has happened but with a different airline:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/1f4tns5/credit_card_refund_processed_to_a_closed_account

I know, take it with a grain of salt, but the comments there seem to mirror the advice above… the CC will not redirect or return a refund to a closed CC. It’s possibly sitting in some suspense account or something, waiting for your instructions on where to send it.

This might need a deeper investigation by ANZ. The department you’ve been dealing with may *assume* it’s been sent back to qantas, when it may not in fact have been.

Another post on ozbargain with NAB suggests the refund was in a suspense account. Once AFCA got involved it was sorted in a week. Refunds to a Closed ANZ Credit Card

 

[garol]

Something is weird here.

There’s a thread on reddit where the same thing has happened but with a different airline:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/1f4tns5/credit_card_refund_processed_to_a_closed_account

(edited… sorry, can’t fix the above link… you want the main article, not the sub links which are to the author and forum]

I know, take it with a grain of salt, but the comments there seem to mirror the advice above… the CC will not redirect or return a refund to a closed CC. It’s possibly sitting in some suspense account or something, waiting for your instructions on where to send it.

This might need a deeper investigation by ANZ. The department you’ve been dealing with may *assume* it’s been sent back to qantas, when it may not in fact have been.

ANZ said their process is they hold the money for 10 days after which they return it back to the merchant. They have provided this in writing including a specific date they claimed they returned it back to Qantas.

Qantas online complaint resolutions keep ignoring information I request or repeat the same standard stock messages. One complaint response called me by the wrong name and was filled with spelling mistakes, so I don't have much confidence in what they are saying.

Both ANZ and Qantas have told me in writing there is nothing more they can do, so I have now raised an investigation with AFCA against ANZ and raised a complaint against Qantas with Airline Customer Advocate.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

ANZ said their process is they hold the money for 10 days after which they return it back to the merchant. They have provided this in writing including a specific date they claimed they returned it back to Qantas.

Qantas online complaint resolutions keep ignoring information I request or repeat the same standard stock messages. One complaint response called me by the wrong name and was filled with spelling mistakes, so I don't have much confidence in what they are saying.

Both ANZ and Qantas have told me in writing there is nothing more they can do, so I have now raised an investigation with AFCA against ANZ and raised a complaint against Qantas with Airline Customer Advocate.

Looks like the AFCA will get it resolved pretty quickly based on the reports in the links.

Will be interesting to know where it finally ended up.

10 days is not long to write to the owner of the closed CC to advise them they have a credit balance, and ask them where they want it sent.

 

[garol]

Looks like the AFCA will get it resolved pretty quickly based on the reports in the links.

Will be interesting to know where it finally ended up.

10 days is not long to write to the owner of the closed CC to advise them they have a credit balance, and ask them where they want it sent.

Exactly, I raised a complaint internally within ANZ to ask why noone tried to contact me by email or phone to advise a refund had been received against a closed account. I don't think that complaint went anywhere.

 

[DejaBrew]

I don't think that complaint went anywhere.

Oh I think we know where it went....

 

[aikman]

I think that ANZ will just give to AFCA that letter that they gave you. AFCA will believe them and case will be closed. Meanwhile ANZ will have a permanent record of you complaining about them to AFCA.

You'd probably want to know more about what the airline customer advocate will do with your complaint.

 

[garol]

I just heard from Qantas and they will refund me fully within 3-5 business days.

 

[DejaBrew]

I just heard from Qantas and they will refund me fully within 3-5 business days.

Excellent outcome (assuming they hold up their end of the bargain). Makes you wonder why it needed to be so difficult?

 

[garol]

Excellent outcome (assuming they hold up their end of the bargain). Makes you wonder why it needed to be so difficult?

I kept a record of what I went through to get to this point between July and now.
I called Qantas a total of 7 times, each call would have been at least 30 mins going through various call centres.
I called ANZ a total of 5 times, each call was about 45 mins.
I have logged 5 separate online support requests with Qantas.
I received 3 separate letters in the mail from ANZ.

Within 3 hours of logging a complaint with Airline Customer Advocate I was contacted by Qantas to offer me the full refund and confirm new bank account details.