Qantas Project Sunrise goes ahead, 12 new A350-1000s ordered

[Quickstatus]

Food is food?

I have never why breakfast has to be different to lunch and dinner. So much simpler if food is time agnostic

 

[TeaKozy]

I have never why breakfast has to be different to lunch and dinner. So much simpler if food is time agnostic

You mean you don’t like having three breakfasts flying MEL-LAX (lounge, plane, lounge)?

 

[Quickstatus]

You mean you don’t like having three breakfasts flying MEL-LAX (lounge, plane, lounge)?

. No I mean why can't I have the dinner menu at breakfast and say the breakfast menu at dinner?

 

[RooFlyer]

And I'll likewise ask you to substantiate that.

No - it was stated as a belief, not a fact (“So I believe so far. …)

The Quest extract you mentioned doesn’t say that the ULR won’t be priced at a premium to standard air frame - they can stick the R&D cost anywhere they choose but then what they price the final product at is different - but if it is price exactly the same as all the other A350–1000s then good on Qantas! But like I say, the usefulness of the ULR generally versus the standard airframe is very limited. Why would you buy a custom-built plane with extended range and lower seat capacity if you don’t need it? Even if you say okay we won’t use the extra fuel tank and will put more seats in – why wouldn’t you buy the standard air frame which has a lot more proven capability and systems the same as all the others?

 

[justinbrett]

No - it was stated as a belief, not a fact (“So I believe so far. …)

The Quest extract you mentioned doesn’t say that the ULR won’t be priced at a premium to standard air frame - they can stick the R&D cost anywhere they choose but then what they price the final product at is different - but if it is price exactly the same as all the other A350–1000s then good on Qantas! But like I say, the usefulness of the ULR generally versus the standard airframe is very limited. Why would you buy a custom-built plane with extended range and lower seat capacity if you don’t need it? Even if you say okay we won’t use the extra fuel tank and will put more seats in – why wouldn’t you buy the standard air frame which has a lot more proven capability?

There's no point debating it because the price is confidential - what we do know is there's not really such thing as a list price (or more accurately its rarely used), so if there's a 10% premium but QF gets a 40% discount for a large order (noting it ordered A32Xs as part of the deal) - is it really a premium? Either way we won't know.

You keep saying "custom built plane". It's an official variant by the manufacturer. They've sold 12 - as a comparison they only sold 8 A330-800s, and that was to multiple customers. They only sold 7 A350-900ULRs to SQ. There's a a dozen or so variants from Airbus & Boeing which haven't sold well at all, so what's the difference? All aircraft are custom built.

Boeing didn't sell 747-400ERs to anybody else however it did re-use a lot of the R&D from that project into later generation 747-400Fs.

As for who would buy it - QF is converting two of it's 787 ULR routes (PER-LHR & AKL-JFK) to the type, so the numbers must look a lot better. That's only two of the 10 top longest routes - not to mention other routes that could be launched. I'd be surprised if SQ don't buy some eventually. I also wouldn't rule out QR (DOH-AKL is longer than PER-LHR), Not saying it will be wildly popular but I've got a feeling QF won't be the only buyer.

 

[Daver6]

. No I mean why can't I have the dinner menu at breakfast and say the breakfast menu at dinner?

You can....just no on QF. They don't believe in dine on demand, despite pretending they do on the printer J menus.

 

[RooFlyer]

You keep saying "custom built plane". It's an official variant by the manufacturer.

Qantas asked for it. Airbus developed it for Qantas; I haven't heard that they were planning to do it otherwise. That's what I mean by 'custom built'; I think most people would understand the meaning.

As for who would buy it - QF is converting two of it's 787 ULR routes (PER-LHR & AKL-JFK) to the type, so the numbers must look a lot better. That's only two of the 10 top longest routes - not to mention other routes that could be launched. I'd be surprised if SQ don't buy some eventually. I also wouldn't rule out QR (DOH-AKL is longer than PER-LHR), Not saying it will be wildly popular but I've got a feeling QF won't be the only buyer.

The A350-1000ULR may be more profitable on those routes than the B787 - but Qantas has also talked about fleet optimisation. Win-win for them.

I agree that there may be other buyers for it - although I reckon very limited. SQ, sure. But if if an airline can get away with an existing type, I still think they would (usual caveats on production time lines etc).

 

[elanshin]

Qantas asked for it. Airbus developed it for Qantas; I haven't heard that they were planning to do it otherwise. That's what I mean by 'custom built'; I think most people would understand the meaning.



The A350-1000ULR may be more profitable on those routes than the B787 - but Qantas has also talked about fleet optimisation. Win-win for them.

I agree that there may be other buyers for it - although I reckon very limited. SQ, sure. But if if an airline can get away with an existing type, I still think they would (usual caveats on production time lines etc).

I wonder if BA would get them out of left field and directly challenge QF. Rumor was that a UK based airlines was running the numbers on PER -LHR and considering direct to PER as well.

ME3 might get a fleet to expand certain regions potentially and who knows what the chinese airlines are up to. I know theres a lot of business between south America and China and it's an absolute slog to go back and forth there.

 

[offshore171]

I wonder if BA would get them out of left field and directly challenge QF. Rumor was that a UK based airlines was running the numbers on PER -LHR and considering direct to PER as well.

Not sure the poms are as resilient as aussies when it comes to ULH flights!

 

[mviy]

I wonder if BA would get them out of left field and directly challenge QF. Rumor was that a UK based airlines was running the numbers on PER -LHR and considering direct to PER as well.

I guess they’ll be interested to see how Sunrise goes for QF and also how BA’s one stop flights to MEL go to see whether it’s worth the risk.