Qantas Project Sunrise goes ahead, 12 new A350-1000s ordered

[Quickstatus]

The ideal way to do this is a long sleep I the last 6-8 hrs into London.

That is the theory but the body clock will keep the passengers awake

lights out, shut up, sleep and don't bother us. We'll feed you when we feel like it.

Flying in darkness the entire way until landing for most of the year - if flying West

Potential double sunrise if over polar route - apparently 20%

The middle meal service should theoretically be over Singapore (midnight in SYD) and then lights out until 3hrs before LHR.

Over the polar the middle meal should be northern pacific at the first sunrise.

science is not going to trump commercial realities. If QF really want to mitigate jet lag, they would find a LHR landing slot after 8am "so that breakfast is served around 0500-0600am and not at 0200-0300 am lhr time

 

[MEL_Traveller]

science is not going to trump commercial realities. If QF really want to mitigate jet lag, they would find a LHR landing slot after 8am "so that breakfast is served around 0500-0600am and not at 0200-0300 am lhr time

Exactly.

But that’s part of a much bigger issue for airpines scheduling flight times that suit them, not the passenger. Take Bali for example… arrive 9pm so you’ve missed your whole first day, and then depart at 10pm so you have to pay for a whole extra day. Suits no one except the airline.

Same with a 5am arrival into London. Who does that suit?

There’s no single authority on jet lag anyway. One camp says to put yourself on the destination time zone. The other says to sleep and eat when you feel like it.

neither one has proven 100% successful.

 

[Quickstatus]

neither one has proven 100% successful.

There is a lot of "science" but not much in terms of outcome studies outside of the lab.
Me thinks QF is just dropping the word "science" for marketing purposes.
Paying someone to do research on your product is not exactly robust science.

Same with a 5am arrival into London. Who does that suit?

Up to six passengers.

 

[justinbrett]

Same with a 5am arrival into London. Who does that suit?

They actually explained this, it's to mitigate congestion delays.

Later in the morning they're more likely to face holding - landing that early they've got the best chance of not being held up.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

They actually explained this, it's to mitigate congestion delays.

Later in the morning they're more likely to face holding - landing that early they've got the best chance of not being held up.

Sure, but that’s not likely to be a consideration from the passenger perspective. Who wants to get to their hotel in London in winter at 6am?

 

[downgraded]

Sure, but that’s not likely to be a consideration from the passenger perspective. Who wants to get to their hotel in London in winter at 6am?

London is not everyone's destination. Only once in 30 years have I stayed in London on arrival.

 

[Melburnian1]

Potential double sunrise SYd-LHr via the polar route depending on time of year and juxtaposition of the actual to the North Pole.


Yes, and if there are any worthy research, they have not published it. The 2019 trial flight in the 787 non stop from JFK and LHR research has never been published. They did publish a preliminary summary but it is a conclusary statement rather than an actual paper.

Neither double sunrises or specialist lighting are much good if cabin crew rudely insist that all manually or electronically operated cabin shades/blinds are closed for almost the whole duration of a flight. Sadly, on too many international flights it's like travelling in a coffin, even in J.

Compare this to European or some Asian rail travel when in a sleeping or couchette compartment,. one has total control on letting light into the area.

 

[jase05]

Same with a 5am arrival into London. Who does that suit

I don’t mind that time arrival as more often than not I’m not staying in London so I’m either connecting to elsewhere via a Euro hop or I’m picking up the rental car and driving elsewhere a few hours up the road.
The few times we have actually stayed after arriving early we go to one of the numerous rellies house or I’ve stumped up for an extra night accommodation.

 

[justinbrett]

Sure, but that’s not likely to be a consideration from the passenger perspective. Who wants to get to their hotel in London in winter at 6am?

Would you prefer a diversion to Reykjavik?

I mean, for me, yes... but I think for most it's no.

Compare this to European or some Asian rail travel when in a sleeping or couchette compartment,. one has total control on letting light into the area.

If you're in F you have total control.

 

[Melburnian1]

They actually explained this, it's to mitigate congestion delays.

Later in the morning they're more likely to face holding - landing that early they've got the best chance of not being held up.

Heathrow controllers must be among the best in the business.

A lot of holding there is minimal: not like holding over Goulburn for entry into SYD.

An 0500 or 0600 arrival may suit a few businessmen but it's a horrible time for leisure travellers (the majority of patronage) as hotels often won't let them check in until 1400 or 1500 hours. Arrive in central London at 0630 or 0700 off the Elizabeth Line: no thanks in months like February. Brrrr!

 

[justinbrett]

Heathrow controllers must be among the best in the business.

A lot of holding there is minimal: not like holding over Goulburn for entry into SYD.

An 0500 or 0600 arrival may suit a few businessmen but it's a horrible time for leisure travellers (the majority of patronage) as hotels often won't let them check in until 1400 or 1500 hours. Arrive in central London at 0630 or 0700 off the Elizabeth Line: no thanks in months like February. Brrrr!

Get on the blower and tell QF they don't need to worry about holding at LHR! This changes everything!

 

[mjt57]

There’s no single authority on jet lag anyway. One camp says to put yourself on the destination time zone. The other says to sleep and eat when you feel like it.

Yep. I worked shiftwork for 40 something years. Swapping from dayshift to nightshift (which was the next night after finishing days) required going to bed in the middle of the day. Nightshift to dayshift was worse. Forcing yourself to wake up early, stay awake then go to bed and try to get a good night's sleep before waking for work the next day (never worked - but the proponents of that roster pattern were of the view that we "recover in the boss's time".

Same for air travel. Trying to line up with the destination, for me at least, was impossible, especially when you can't get any decent sleep sitting up in a cramped and hard seat.

One New York trip I treated it like it was nightshift. I got to sleep during the day before we headed to the airport and the plan was to stay awake for the 14 hrs to LA. Didn't work, was still knackered at the other end.

So, I just sleep when I can, eat when I feel like it and put up with the 2 to 3 day recovery afterwards. This Project Sunrise concept, for me, would only make it worse. Others may love it. Who knows til QF gets a few flights under its belt.

 

[Melburnian1]

If you're in F you have total control.

The vast majority of QFi (and competitor airlines') passengers are not in F. The rest lack what rail passengers in sleeping/couchette compartments can do: choose to enjoy natural light at will, even at 0200 hours.

F is reserved for highly paid sports and entertainment stars, CEOs, some politicians and overpaid bureaucrats. Questionable given the limited inventory whether any FF points could ever be redeemed for F, especially during peak seasons of summer in the UK, Easter, Christmas and so on.

 

[elanshin]

The vast majority of QFi (and competitor airlines') passengers are not in F. The rest lack what rail passengers in sleeping/couchette compartments can do: choose to enjoy natural light at will, even at 0200 hours.

F is reserved for highly paid sports and entertainment stars, CEOs, some politicians and overpaid bureaucrats. Questionable given the limited inventory whether any FF points could ever be redeemed for F, especially during peak seasons of summer in the UK, Easter, Christmas and so on.

Sure but F (and to some degree J) is what is marketed and has a halo effect on everything else even if it doesn't match the real experience. Emirates is a great example of the halo effect. Y in Emirates is a little better than other Y, but its still Y yet because of EK F product you get a halo effect coming through - " oh you flew Emirates, hows that? It must be luxurious" is a question a non ff would end up asking for example.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

London is not everyone's destination. Only once in 30 years have I stayed in London on arrival.

True. But then why oh why PS?

If you’re flying to Europe it’s a downgrade from a350 to Eurobusiness. When you could be flying non-stop from Hong Kong or Tokyo to your final destination.

If you’re not from Sydney you’ve just turned a one stop flight on another airline into a two-stop flight on Qantas. With a nice easy transfer in both Sydney and Heathrow.

 

[justinbrett]

The vast majority of QFi (and competitor airlines') passengers are not in F. The rest lack what rail passengers in sleeping/couchette compartments can do: choose to enjoy natural light at will, even at 0200 hours.

F is reserved for highly paid sports and entertainment stars, CEOs, some politicians and overpaid bureaucrats. Questionable given the limited inventory whether any FF points could ever be redeemed for F, especially during peak seasons of summer in the UK, Easter, Christmas and so on.

You're comparing an enclosed space in a train with flat beds, and the only close comparison to that on an an aircraft is F.

Beyond that comparisons are ridiculous, unless you're suggesting a rail service between SYD and LHR.

 

[mjt57]

Beyond that comparisons are ridiculous, unless you're suggesting a rail service between SYD and LHR.

Or, as we once did, a cruise from HNL to YVR. Now, THAT was the most civilised and relaxing way to travel. No jet lag, just a self-induced hangover on arrival.

 

[SYD]

True. But then why oh why PS?

If you’re flying to Europe it’s a downgrade from a350 to Eurobusiness. When you could be flying non-stop from Hong Kong or Tokyo to your final destination.

If you’re not from Sydney you’ve just turned a one stop flight on another airline into a two-stop flight on Qantas. With a nice easy transfer in both Sydney and Heathrow.

Could be going elsewhere in the UK.

Otherwise, the QF codeshares on EK pick up most of Europe without backtracking.

 

[jase05]

True. But then why oh why PS?

If you’re flying to Europe it’s a downgrade from a350 to Eurobusiness. When you could be flying non-stop from Hong Kong or Tokyo to your final destination.

And really that’s probably why PS won’t work for us personally. It’s already a 1 stop trip from ADL via a ordinary J product to SYD or PER plus a poor transit experience especially at SYD and then if London isn’t our final destination it’ turns into a 2 stop trip with another poor transit through LHR to jump on a rubbish Euro J product.
Still wouldn’t mind trying it one day for the sake of it but can’t see it becoming a regular thing