Qantas passengers "forced" to travel on JetStar

Discussion in 'Qantas Frequent Flyer Program' started by bambbbam2, Feb 18, 2007.

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  1. bambbbam2

    bambbbam2 Active Member

    Feb 13, 2005
    857
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    Perth, WA
    From
    Qantas passengers forced to fly Jetstar | NEWS.com.au

    "PASSENGERS on Qantas international flights are being bumped to the airline's lower-cost partner Jetstar.

    The Sunday Telegraph has uncovered evidence of "Australia's favourite airline" transferring passengers on to its sister airline without consulting them first.


    Passengers who pay for flights with Skybeds are also missing out, with a leaked memo revealing staff have been told not to warn customers they may not be available on some overseas services.


    One woman, flying from Hawaii to Sydney with two young children, was forced to fly Jetstar after paying for a Qantas flight last month.


    "We were told that the next Qantas flight wouldn't have been until the next day and if we had wanted to do that we would have had to re-book," the passenger, who did not want to be named, told The Sunday Telegraph.


    "It would cost us the premium rates, so a lot of extra money, and we'd have to also arrange an extra night's accommodation in Honolulu."


    The passenger had initially booked her Qantas tickets in April last year for a flight in January. In December, Qantas contacted the passenger, notifying them that the flight was going to be Jetstar and offering compensation of $60 and meals.


    "It was an awful flight – really poor service," the passenger said.
    "Honestly, I would never, ever book a flight with Qantas. If there was any risk that they could bump me down to Jetstar, I will fly another airline from now on."..



    story continues at link
     

  2. Evan

    Evan Established Member

    Dec 26, 2006
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    Not that i am saying its ok or right but you have to be aware booking 9 months in advance things can change ! (Meaning aircraft type for example)

    As for skybeds, nobody ever said they are on every aircraft, QF before booking and once booked gives you infomation on what aircraft operate the service and as such you can tell of you are on a 76x/743/A332 there is going to be no skybeds, as far as i know the only planes with skybeds are the 744's and A333's ?

    Same thing just happened with some friends flying JAL, no skybeds, said there J product was terrible ! But if you score a JAL plane with skybeds they are really nice, luck of the draw sometimes.

    E
     
  3. JohnK

    JohnK Veteran Member

    Mar 22, 2005
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    I can understand and accept situations where aircraft substitution may occur when booking so far in advance.

    But to be downgraded to a totally different airline with inferior service when you paid for full service....
     
  4. Mal

    Mal Enthusiast

    Dec 25, 2004
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    But on the SYD-HNL route with Qantas, you are already on a downgraded service.

    747-300's (soon to be 767's) using old style J seats (if in J). The interior looking old, worn and in parts showing it's age.

    In some ways I'd prefer a new plane like the ones offered by Jetstar.
     
  5. Standby

    Standby Active Member

    May 25, 2006
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    I believ the article did also say that customers were given the option on
    1/rebook to JQ and compensation 2/rebook to an alt date onto Qantas operated service...or as happened when JQ took over some Dom markets..I was offered money back...also this was done well inadvance..its not like the customer fronted the airport to find a different carrier operating,
    I suppose have to expect this sort of media hysteria to keep the buyout or any negativity on the front page..this really is a bit of a beat up..
     
  6. Well, it is The Sunday Telegraph that we're talking 'bout here, hardly a bastion of journalistic excellence at the best of times. Another predictable "poor consumer done-over by heartless corporation, and the Sunday Telegraph to the rescue to expose the evil-doers". As an actual provider of news, it has about as much credibility as those scandalous excuses for current-affairs shows on the commercial TV networks have, but millions of people who don't have the intellectual wherewithall to think critically accept everything they print as gospel.

    And of course, were you to write a letter to the Editor, providing the same information as that found in this post, concerning aircraft-type on the route, and the cabin fitouts thereof, it would be consigned to the waste-paper bin, because they don't print anything that doesn't adhere to their editorial policy (i.e. poor Aussie battler versus big nasty company).
     
  7. acampbel

    acampbel Member

    Oct 31, 2005
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    2
    I agree with you about the typical journalistic standards evident at the Tele, but what specifically about this story was inaccurate or biased???

    I have no intention of ever flying Jetstar, which is a position I have taken based only on the facts and opinions of this forums' members. If I was "bumped" off Qantas to Jetstar I would be extremely unhappy about it, and would refuse unless there was significant personal disruption involved. If there was no choice then a full refund from Qantas minus the cheapest possible Jetstar fare would be an appropriate fare, plus I would still expect some sort of compensation if there was any difference in the product.

    The other aspects of the story were particularly worrying - letting checkin staff and FAs cop the ire of disappointed passengers is Low Cost Carrier stuff. Qantas should be better than that ....


    Cheers,

    Andrew

    .
     
  8. NM

    NM
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    I don't really think it was inaccurate or biases, just not very newsworthy in normal times. It just seems to me that in the last few months there has been a plan by certain sectors of the media (supported by various lobby groups I expect) to publish as much negative press about Qantas as they can find.

    So Qantas made a schedule change more than 6 months out. Whoopie. All airlines make schedule changes. And when they do, they all offer the same options to the passengers, such as:
    • carriage on another airline on the same day (possibly with compensation payment)
    • change the booking to a day the airline will operate the route without a change penalty even if the fare rules have change restrictions
    • a full refund of the purchased ticket

    From what I can see this is what was offered on this occasion. The passenger had a choice that any airline would have offered. What more can they be expected to do apart from continue to operate the route just for this passenger's convenience?

    As for the difference in product, an objective review would show some pros and some cons. The offered compensation for changing to Jetstar would be more than enough to cover the costs of on-board "Feed-Me", "Entertain-Me" etc packages. The IFE options is better on JQ international than the 767-300 operated on that route by Qantas. The JQ A330-200 economy seat is about the same as QF 767, and the aircraft a lot newer. Baggage allowances about the same. Lounge access the same if available to the passenger.

    The passenger noted that the service was poor. I have seen similar complaints about QF service and we all know that service can be very much hit and miss and varies between flights/crews more than it varies between airlines.
    The article seemed to imply the Skybed issues applied to the HNL passengers. Either this was purposely misleading or poor editorial work.

    As far as I am aware, it is not a common occurance where an aircraft type is changed at the last minute. Certainly has happened in recent times on the QF25/26 route with 743s swapped for 74s. But it is not as common as the report was implying, especially on the Asia/Europe routes.

    But I agree it is bad for the company policy to leave it to the FAs to cop the wrath of the passengers - poor form if that is true.
     
  9. mabunji

    mabunji Intern

    Nov 23, 2006
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    Qantas have gone to great lengths in establishing Jetstar to distance the brand from the full service product.

    Qantas is the premium brand, its what we all aspire too, even if our circumstances dictate that we can only afford Jetstar.

    If you had to put a price differential on the two products what would it be ???.

    Heck, its $60 and an airline meal. !!!!.

    This response was shabby and inadequate, and ultimately devalues the Qantas brand. ('Why do people bag Qantas').

    I guess in future when I go shopping for fares I can expect to see this $60 differential between the two products ?.
     
  10. JohnK

    JohnK Veteran Member

    Mar 22, 2005
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    When you find a $60 difference between JQ prices and QF prices, for any length of flight, can you please get in touch with me ASAP as I would love to purchase the QF product and service.
     
  11. mabunji

    mabunji Intern

    Nov 23, 2006
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    Yep, don't hold your breath.

    If Qantas are forced to reassign you to a Low Cost Carrier, apparently the LCC isn't so bad after all - really theres only about a $60 value differential between the two products. This logic should work in reverse - if I'm booking a flight I should be able to acquire the Qantas product at a margin of $60 over the LCC product.

    Fortunately I have experienced very few cancellations / delays with airlines.

    Some years ago I was bumped from an Air Pacific flight out of Nadi (the scheduled 747 had a mechanical fault, a smaller 767 was utilised - not enough seats). I was rebooked on the flight the following day, the airline provided a hotel room, meal vouchers for the duration of the forced stay, a voucher for a welcoming drink at the bar, transport to and from the airport. Additionally there was compensation of $200 (this was on a discounted fare of approx $360/$380).

    Sixty bucks doesn't really cut it does it ?.
     
  12. NM

    NM
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    Well the passenger in the news article was given the option of a full refund of the Qantas fare and could then have used that that to purchase a ticket on JQ, HA, AC or any other carrier operating the route. Perhaps if there was flights with more than a $60 price margin they could have saved some money?

    But of course that does not take into account that Qantas would likely take 6 weeks to process the refund, and the passenger then needs to purchase a one-way ticket HNL-SYD and we all know that the cheaper fares are often not available as one-way fares, and of course by the time this all happened all the cheap fares on the other airlines have been long sold out.

    However, from what I have seen and read (and I have not flown with them so its not first hand experience), JetStar International economy product is not such a big difference from QF economy. The seats are probably better on JQ's A330s than QF's 767s. The food is supposed to be similar - just need to be purchased separately - and I would expect anyone moved from QF to JQ flight should be provided the Feed-Me pack free. For an economy passenger, I really don't see what all the fuss is about. Can someone who has flown JetStar International tell me what is so bad about the product that warrants such media scrutiny? Perhaps I am missing something??? Is it all about the blow-up lillow vs the small piece of foam?

    If I was a business class passenger moved to JQ StarClass I think I would have grounds for complaint. But in economy, so long as I still got the lounge access (based on QF FF status), was fed and watered, provided IFE, and got my FF points, I would be content.
     
  13. JohnK

    JohnK Veteran Member

    Mar 22, 2005
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    It hasn't happened to me yet but let me assure you that if they ever attempt to pull a stunt like that on me that the compensation will be much more than $60. But by the same token QF has treated me very well, in fact better than I have expected on most occassions, in the past so I don't expect this type of treatment in the future.

    I made a decision, from the beginning, that I will never fly Jetstar because I feel it is a Mickey Mouse airline that makes other LCCs look very good. Heaven help me if I am ever forced to use this airline.
     
  14. NM

    NM
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    As I mentioned previous, I have not flown JetStar International so have no first hand experience with the product. But I am curious as to what it is that in your opinion makes them worse than other LCCs?

    I understand the avoidance of Jet Star domestic flights, but don't see much difference between JQ International and other international carriers, and I think at this time I would be happy to use them so long as I pre-paid for the food, entertainment etc. The downside for me is that JQ flights don't earn AA miles.

    I will add that I am not talking about the JetStar Asia flights CNS-DRW-SIN operated by A320. I am talking about the JetStar International flights operated by A330-200 aircraft such as to HNL or BKK.
     
  15. d15.in.oz

    d15.in.oz Member

    Nov 28, 2006
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    Well, I am not going to completely bag JQ, nor JQi, as when the price is right - I fly with both.

    I think the best way to compare QF & JQi products, is that QF international economy should be lined up against JQi *class…(The range of product pricing would also seem to suggest this comparison’s relevance.) Then, the only difference, is a slight increase in seat pitch and width. If you compare economy for economy, there are too many pay for extras to effectively compare like for like [e.g. open wet bar, free AVOD & status/points on QF] (the only real similarity in this comparison is seat pitch/width). I think it is important to note, that the service from the Asian based crews (in the back cabin) is nowhere near QF international economy standards. [They even congregate in the galley more often than QF staff!] *Class crews provide a level of service commensurate with newly employed (and still enthusiastic) QF international economy staff.

    NM, I think it’s all about perceptions, people want the low prices, but the perceptions that there are a lot of add on extras, makes the reality of value disappear. [Additionally, the value of the add on purchases is pour, IMHO - the price charged for the meal that is served is too high (or the meal quality too low), the comfort pack is not comfortable enough for the price, however, I do like the video player, it equates to the same price as two new release movie rentals, or there is the free tv/movie on the main screen.]

    Will I fly JQi again, yes! I already have the bookings. What I won’t do though, is be yield managed into paying QF economy prices for the JQi economy product… maybe this is what many are worried about?
     
  16. JohnK

    JohnK Veteran Member

    Mar 22, 2005
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    I have never flown JQi, so anything I say is from what I have read on these forums and news articles.

    I do not like JQs attitude to customer service, or lack of it. I do not like having to pay for extras, limited interlining of baggage with other carriers, not accepting responsibility when missed connections are their fault, strict limits on baggage allowance (and the farcical purchase extra baggage allowance before you travel, like I know how much I will be over purchasing a ticket 6 months before travel) and lack of FF program (yes I know they are part of the QFF program but *class is way overpriced for the product offered and Jetflex fares to earn FF points is a joke, you may as well purchase a ticket with QF).

    I am very happy to pay the price QF charges for economy on most routes. Please do not allow the QF product to degrade and more importantly do NOT replace it with JQi. As far as I am concerned QF and JQ(i) are two different companies and I think we will be better off if they split ASAP.
     
  17. d15.in.oz

    d15.in.oz Member

    Nov 28, 2006
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    #17 d15.in.oz, Feb 20, 2007
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2007
    I'm sure many things will change, as the JQi business model develops/matures… I remember I use to hate the JQ orange/blue/silver boarding process with non-assigned seats...but now they assign seats. [TIP: domestic check-in without bags @ QP - ALWAYS, staff there will recognise your loyalty, and do more to help you with new seat assignment. PLUS sit down the back, so many people want to crowd up to the front, and often the plane will off-load from the back anyway!.]


    I use to really worry about not making the domestic 30min check in cut off (40 @ QP)…For many years, on QF services, I was always a 20min prior to departure check-in (sometimes less)… but a new appreciation for QP gets me there well before time, in fact, last time - before check-in was open!

    My domestic worries about food/drink have now disappeared as well (for the prices I pay on JQ, I don’t mind paying extra for something that I want)…I enjoy the nachos and sparkling wine on my snack flights, and the toasted roll and sparkling wine on my meal flights…[best of all - my meal flight times are determined by how hungry I am, not the actual time]…I have to say that on a recent, post 8pm CityFlyer BNE-SYD, flight I really missed my toasted roll (and QF couldn’t provide me any sparkling down the back either). [Although, JQ needs to get their act together, and find a better sparkling wine for the price they charge!]

    The next trend in LCC seems to be the alliance, and I hope the JQ people are already talking to the new JetBlue/Aer Lingus alliance team…so flexibility will evolve in connections… sometime soon hopefully, even if the 787 is the hub buster! [OneWorld lite… perhaps?]
     
  18. NM

    NM
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    ok, I understand you have some reasons. They are quite valid when choosing an airline for some trips. And I would certainly be considering things like connections and baggage interlining if they applied to my trip.

    But most of those were not relevant to the person in the news article. There was no mention of connecting flights, just HNL-SYD. From what I have read, people moved from QF to JQ are actually booked on a QF codeshare which, just like QF FF awards on JQ, includes food, entertainment, etc so the only thing this person should have needed to pay extra would be for additional beverages beyond what is included in the Feed-Me Pack. Since its a USA-Australia flight, they would have been entitled to the same 2 pieces of checked luggage.

    So when comparing what this person would have experienced as the difference between QF 767 in economy vs JQ A330 in economy, I still fail to see what all their fiss was about.
     
  19. NM

    NM
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    I understand those concerns if booking a flight. But for the person in this media report, they would have been booked onto a QF codeshare on the JQ flight and just like QF FF award passengers on the QF codeshare they will have had the extras included and not needed to pay on-board except for additional beverages.

    And they would have received AVOD via a personal movie player with JQi, and would only have had the main screen projector to watch on a QF 767 on the HNL-SYD route. So I don't see it as a big issue for this particular situation.
     
  20. dajop

    dajop Senior Member

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    Tend to agree with NM, seems reasonable. In this instance, my main concern would around FF points/SC's - if downgraded like this does one still earn FF points on JQ? If not the $60 compensation seems pretty meagre compared to the potential FF point/SC earn on SYD-HNL route (especially if any status was held).
     
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