Qantas or Singapore Airlines FF program?

[NM]

I have yet to see any explanation why the runway lights were on a closed runway in that case, any ATC worth their salt knows you only switch active runway lights on and a dark runway may have been of assistance to the pilot!

From memory, the lights were on because part of the closed runway was being used as a taxiway. There was a lot of dicsussion about the colour and position of the lights adding to the confusion about it being an active taxiway and not an active runway at the time. Weather and visibility was also a problem at the time. But the major contributing factor was a breakdown in CRM in the coughpit.

 

[oz_mark]

Also with the 744 at Bangkok. What happened to the QF pilots? Were they "retired".

Last I heard they were still working for QF.

 

[markis10]

There was a lot of dicsussion about the colour and position of the lights adding to the confusion about it being an active taxiway and not an active runway at the time. Weather and visibility was also a problem at the time. But the major contributing factor was a breakdown in CRM in the coughpit.

The taiwanese report layed blame on CRM whilst the Singapore report blamed the system. There were mixed reports on whether the edge lighting was on but the runway had been closed for good and should have had a white cross on it indicating so as per ICAO regs. Had either problem been fixed it is likely the accident would not have happened, however it must be said that the plane was airworthy while the airport was not.

As with all incidents there is never one factor that alone contributes to a problem, I remember working sector radar one night when two domestic flights discovered that their passengers were going to different destinations to the crew - hows that for CRM.

As a pilot, former air traffic controller and a very frequent flyer I would fly SQ, and if you are based in Singapore I think their frequent flyer scheme is worthwhile. They service OZ well as far as redemption goes and also upgrade customers more often, and as you cannot pay to join the lounge the facilities tend to be less crowded and of a higher standard.

 

[Ric]

I was living in Taipei at the time of the SQ disaster. The weather was indeed terrible and from memory, the runway lights were full on. Also, I remember that the Control Tower which actually do not have a view of the plane at all at that time ok'd it for take off. Now if that's is true, its most worrying! A system breakdown from all parties.

And the Taiwanese Gov't put the flight crew under detention only releasing them after a threat of boycott from the Federation of Airlines Pilots!!

ric

 

[QF WP]

Thanks guys, but you're drifting off-topic.

singsling, have you been able to ascertain the answers to those questions I posed in my initial reply?? No doubt you're busy packing and organising the transfer to SIN.

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

Clarifying a couple of points made by Lindsay Wilson.

When flying on discounted economy fares on SQ (Singapore Airlines), there is NO mileage earning on any program. So while United's Mileage Plus may be good for economy fliers in some cases its no help on SQ. Also Mileage Plus is best if you are flying United predominantly.

If flying SQ in business or first then automatically earn credit towards PPS system (assuming you have a KrisFlyer account). However miles can be credited to any partner FFP (ie all *A plus also DL). The best earning in this case is LH Miles & More, BD Diamond Club (but need a european address) and NZ Airpoints. All have earning multiples of at least 200% for business and 300% for first; vs SQ KrisFlyers 150% for business (on SQ) and 175% for first (on SQ). PPS status is useful for getting awards or paid seats released, preferred seating, and lounge access to SilverKris; this on top of usual *Gold benefits and annual gifts etc.

 

[QF WP]

Indeed, Kiwi Flyer, you are the guru when it comes to flying *A. Heed well his information, singsling.

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

Happy to help if I can. Will be able to provide more once singsling posts a bit more info on travel patterns (eg answers to lindasy's questions).

 

[QF WP]

singsling, you're also going to need a contact that you can talk to in QF Reservations in SIN. I have a friend who works there (she looks after all my bookings) and I have passed her name and direct number to a number of FF's who live in SIN. She is very helpful.

Let me know if you want her details...

 

[ronone69]

Find the discussion of safety between SG and QF very interesting. I fly both but find I hear more "funny" noises on QF than SQ. Also, the SQ fleet is significantly younger.

The SQ program will require (from 25 May 2005 when Qantas screws its customers again) significantly less points for travel than QF.

And then who course there is service - SG generally has great service - QF has a problem understanding what the word it means.

I am in the air every month of the year. I would fly SQ and CX and even BA before QF anytime.

 

[thadocta]

Find the discussion of safety between SG and QF very interesting. I fly both but find I hear more "funny" noises on QF than SQ. Also, the SQ fleet is significantly younger.

Of course it is younger. If you *KNOW* you are going to replace an aircraft in 24 months time (SQ) you are going to conduct far less maintenance on it than if you intend keeping it for 10 years or so (QF, BA, CX and so on).

The SQ program will require (from 25 May 2005 when Qantas screws its customers again) significantly less points for travel than QF.

But SQ points are significantly harder to obtain, unless travelling in premium cabins or on full Y. So swings and round-abouts.

And then who course there is service - SG generally has great service - QF has a problem understanding what the word it means.

Have never had a bad QF flight service wise. Have had a few flights where there was little service, due to the seat-belt light staying on as we were flowing at lower than optimal, since it was faster, to try and beat curfew at Sydney.

But they don't count.

Nah, as I said, NEVER had a bad flight with QF.

Dave

 

[ronone69]

Dave

If you have never had a bad flight with QF, then it sounds like you don't get out much

I rarely have a good one - especially international - and I sit up the front of the plane. They haven't got a clue

SQ are simply a better airline. Better service, better entertainment, better service, better food, better service, better wine, better service, rarely late, better service, far more efficient, better service.

There really is no comparison. The only otyher airline in the same class as SQ is CX. They also understand the word service and they have the best First Class lounge in the world in HK.

 

[thadocta]

Dave

If you have never had a bad flight with QF, then it sounds like you don't get out much

I rarely have a good one - especially international - and I sit up the front of the plane. They haven't got a clue.

850-900 status credits a year, with 90% of them being on QF.

As for SQ, i reiterate Scott's point early in this thread - if you want pretty young things fawning over you, use SQ. If you want to get there in one piece, use QF.

Dave

 

[pomjim]

thadocta

Statistics show that it is "safer" to travel by taxi than private car, so I presume you don't drive?

 

[straitman]

thadocta

Statistics show that it is "safer" to travel by taxi than private car, so I presume you don't drive?

I'm sure thadocta does drive, however like all things both personal and business he/we all do a risk analysis of some kind before we do them.

Remember that you are quoting "average" statistics and I'm sure I could find both better and worse sets to quote back to you. Also when driving a car you have some control of where you go and which roads to take, (shorter/longer, safer/not so safe). When flying it's the same type of calculation and unless you are the pilot then the only control you have is with your cheque book :!:

 

[MetroAir]

Isn't the human capacity for choice a wonderful thing!?

And the capacity for decision making.

And sometimes we use rational/logical reasons for making them.

And our rational or logic can be so perceived as irrational or illogical by others.

All comes down to what you like more; comfort/service, safety, color of logo, cleanliness of toilets.

Wouldn't choose to be anything else!

 

[QF WP]

thadocta, statistics show that it is "safer" to travel by taxi than private car, so I presume you don't drive?

Oh, pomjim, you'd understand just how funny that comment really is, if you knew thadocta ... :wink:

Hope you are ready for the reply :!:

 

[NM]

Oh, pomjim, you'd understand just how funny that comment really is, if you knew thadocta ... :wink:

Hope you are ready for the reply :!:

Oh, that is so funny! But I understand he only travels by taxi once or twice a week nowadays ...

Thank you linesman... thank you ballboys .

 

[thadocta]

Oh, pomjim, you'd understand just how funny that comment really is, if you knew thadocta ... :wink:

Hope you are ready for the reply :!:

Oh, that is so funny! But I understand he only travels by taxi once or twice a week nowadays ...

About that - if I can squeeze in an extre shift between the NSW Government requires my services, and it doesn't put one of my drivers off their shift, I will get out there. Helps to keep up to date with where things are, after all we cannot have a cab driver not knowing where things are now can we?

I still prefer the other job, pays better, and helping with the whole "law and order" stuff, so to speak. Still, the cab plates are producing a good return on investment, about $35K (TYPO - fixed) to me on something worth around $220K. Can't see me getting that from a bank.

Dave

(editted to fix typo).

 

[thadocta]

thadocta, statistics show that it is "safer" to travel by taxi than private car, so I presume you don't drive?

Oh, pomjim, you'd understand just how funny that comment really is, if you knew thadocta ... :wink:

Hope you are ready for the reply :!:

I will let you handle it Lindsay. Since I am known - indeed famous - for my tact, discretion and decorum - I defer to you on this one.

Dave