Qantas now offering cash upgrades!

[aus_flyer]

It would also depend on the original fare paid for economy. If someone has paid, for example some paid $3500 for a return flexi-saver fare SYD-LAX (as fares) it is a different proposition to offering it to someone who has paid less than half of that for a red e-deal. Another possibility would be offer to those on an economy RTW ticket - the chance of an upgrade a single sector would hardly be enticing enough to subsitute a Y fare for a J fare . There are probably numerous scenarios where this could be selectively offered without necessarily significantly changing purchasing behaviour to favour Y fares with a good probablity of an upgrade. I lalso think that as it is so selective, it may just have something to do with oversold Y cabin ....

Or it could be just that companies have shifted their travel so much towards Y that any $$$ are a bonus, and deal with the consequences when the economy picks up....

The flight I am aware of is only 1/2 sold in Y and J is almost 3/4 empty.

And interestingly, Q class fares are being offered the upgrade.

 

[wandering_fred]

The USA market is not the TransPacific market. And the USA question relates more to routes at busy times and customer loyalty. If the 17:00 daily flight from A to B goes out with an average 98% load factor in Y, offering upgrades to people who fly (your airline) a lot may keep them from going to a different airline.

With Oz and TransPacific routes (at least until very recently) QF could sell the premium seats. Or at least most of them. And there were no alternatives. And the premium seat fares continued to climb. To the point where people looked for alternatives. And use of the CirclePacific fare became worthwhile until a very serious fare increase reduced that utility. And people looked at comparable routes (distance and frequency) and found competition does make a difference in the fares. And their concept of airline loyalty took a big hit.

Well now QF finds they may not be able to sell all those premium seats.
And QF's flyers (not the credit card mileage people) are still wondering what loyalty QF has to them.

Well for the QF lurkers I offer a couple of suggestions - assuming they want to retain the loyalty of their frequent flyers.

1. International mileage upgrades are confirmed in time sequence by status. Look at AA's domestic sticker upgrade timeframe. No guarantees but more frequent flyers are treated with more preference. And people with miles but no status find upgrades VERY difficult. Full awards are the category that depend on miles.
2. Longhaul flights will never depart with more than 2 empty premium seats - IF frequent flyers have asked for mileage award upgrades.
3. Flight earnings are comparable with flight costs. Economy is the base. If business awards are charged at 200% of economy, paid business earns 200% of economy.
4. It would be nice to have an economy seat with more space on flights of more than 6 or 7 hours. No additional service - just space -

there is really no major flaw in QF's economy service; it's just not premium cabin service. And a corresponding Y+ price not a J- price. I am aware of the failure of AA's more room in coach. But the AA routes in that case are not the length of TransPacific or the Kangaroo route at 13 to 24 hours.
5. Fuel surcharges (I suspect they will occur again) never last more than six months without being merged into the base fare.
6. Star class and flexi JQ fares are eligible for (reduced) partner mileage credit.

I still find the SIN market more to my liking - though the fall of the AU$ makes the OWExplorer fares (xONEx) exAustralia attractive.

I never expect my views to be considered conventional.

Fred

 

[AnonymousCoward]

I think both your questions have already been answered.

I would not have made the post if I didn't know it was happening.

And I have already given the example I am aware of.

Hi,

Your initial post began "It appears...", which is why there might be some doubt (or at least futher questions) here in the minds of some people.

I'd be interested in know how you found out about this (where you on the plane? or did you hear from someone else? read about it in a newspaper?). Also how do you know that even Q class bookings were being offered this? Was it offered to all-and-sundry, or just a select group of people? Offered at checkin? the gate? the lounge? etc

 

[MelUser]

This is the 3rd time I am asking for some substantiation - can we please have some background as to how/when etc these upgrades are offered?

 

[Will]

Sorry to ask again BUT

(1) Does anyone have any evidence of this happening? If so, how, when?

(2) What routes?

There is some discussion but are we really sure this is actually happening.

I think both your questions have already been answered.

I would not have made the post if I didn't know it was happening.

And I have already given the example I am aware of.

With respect, you haven't answered either of those questions.

Question 1 - you have provided no evidence, and haven't even told us how you came to know the information. You have not told us how, nor when.

Question 2 - You said 'so far the only route I have heard of is BNE/SYD/MEL to LAX. $1200.' - well which one? You say you have given 'the example' your are aware of, but an amalgam of three different routes is not one example. Nor does it explain how you know it is these three routes - have you heard of one paid upgrade on each of these routes? Or more than that?

So please, either tell us you won't give us the evidence - because of confidentiality or some other reason - or provide some details, but don't pretend you have supplied sufficient information and give snippy answers when people ask for more.

 

[aus_flyer]

To clarify, the "facts" I provided are real and not speculation.

For a few reasons, I will not disclose how I know about the cash upgrades, but I can confirm (as a single example) that:

• Qantas phoned international pax on a BNE/LAX flight a few days before departure to offer upgrades.
• The upgrade price was $1200 one way
• Those contacted included pax booked in Q class
• The flight was relatively empty.
• Pax were told they can consider the offer and phone Qantas back if they wanted to accept.

Take from that what you like!

 

[docjames]

Thanks for providing that info. Your call not to disclose further.

So we have a one-off. Interesting to see if this evolves to a widespread practice, or if it is indeed recurrent practice.

 

[Flashback]

Interesting to note also that it's not something offered at check-in, but something that is offered a few days earlier.

A much better way to do it, as it means it would not be something that could always be asked for and therefore expected ala JQ*class upgrades.

 

[comint]

A much better way to do it, as it means it would not be something that could always be asked for and therefore expected ala JQ*class upgrades.

I disagree. Posts from some on AFF demonstrate that JQ's ODUs have successfully changed consumer behaviour. They have actually converted some of their frequent fliers from Y, to Y+ODU, to now buying Star Class outright. (So much for those who argue that upgrades diminish demand for premium services.)

 

[MelUser]

I tend to agree, the international points upgrades which I have received have prompted me to buy business fares (albeit in discount business (D)) whereas but for the upgrades i would probably have dismissed business as an unnecessary expense. IE - after I'd tried it there was no going back!

 

[oz_mark]

IE - after I'd tried it there was no going back!

I know that feeling!

 

[AnonymousCoward]

I disagree. Posts from some on AFF demonstrate that JQ's ODUs have successfully changed consumer behaviour. They have actually converted some of their frequent fliers from Y, to Y+ODU, to now buying Star Class outright. (So much for those who argue that upgrades diminish demand for premium services.)

Firstly: *Some* people have been converted. That doesn't mean that this offering would be desirable on QF.

Secondly: The main objection appears to be /free/ upgrades from economy to business for status pax (or some other criteria). That seems to breed a sense of entitlement, and resulting reduction in revenue ("why pay for J if I know that 99% of the time I can pay Y and sit in J?") which will just result in a diminished J experience (aka "F" on many intra-US routes)

 

[JohnK]

IE - after I'd tried it there was no going back!

Easy to go back. It all depends on how much money you have and how many overseas trips you want every year.

If you are like me and you want to have 3-4 overseas trips a year but only have enough money for 1 business class trip then I will travel in WHY. For me the overseas holiday is, with certain conditions attached, way more important than how I get there....

 

[Adelaide_Matthew]

Qantas phoned international pax on a BNE/LAX flight a few days before departure to offer upgrades.

• The upgrade price was $1200 one way
• Those contacted included pax booked in Q class

I happily acknowledge the views here expressed about devaluing premium product, but if I'd been booked on that flight (and it would have been in economy) I'd have been absolutely delighted to take that call - I wouldn't have needed to call them back, I'd have handed over the $1,200 right then and there.

As has been suggested, this is a handy way of getting extra money from passengers for nothing (in the short term). Providing it doesn't become commonplace, I think the devaluation would be very minimal.

Nobody else is telling us they've had this happen - I wonder if this was an experiment by QF to test take-up rates and see if they want to do it a bit more??

 

[winetraveller]

Because in the long term, people will stop actually buying business class tickets and gamble on cheapie upgrades (c.f. USA carriers on domestic flights ) which is a lot more revenue lost in the long term

Dave

I won't. I'm not going to risk the chance of having to fly in coach if I don't have to. I'll fly less direct routes, and varied airlines. Mind you I don;t fly QF anymore anyway.

 

[jpk]

East coast - LAX upgrade from DiscY to J is 72000 points. So a $1200 upgrade values points at approx $0.0167ea - ie: close to 1.5cents per point. 1cent per point has long been held to be about the expected value for redemptions, so QF are still doing ok here.

Interestingly, the classic J award rate for the same flight would be 96000 points + $225 fines. Using the same rate of 1.67cents, the total value of redemption is then $1825, not that this figure really means anything relative to the real world.

Its only a one way upgrade, let's imagine you could do the same on the way back. So $2400 in upgrades, plus let's say the base Y fare was $2500 (tho sale fares are on now for only $1300!) for a red e-deal. So all in, QF are taking $4900 for a return MEL-LAX, which is not that unreasonable when you think about the recent 2-4-1 offer. (Although J is still pricing out at $15000)

Sorry, I had a few spare minutes to spend some idle curiosity on, not sure I've really contributed anything meaningful here...

 

[farstar]

I was listening to either 2GB or 2UE (can't remember which) and during a segment about the stock market the reporter mentioned that he got a call from Qantas asking if he would like to upgrade on points even though the fare was a Red E deal and the fare conditions said it was not upgradable.

You also wonder would they clear the points upgrade requests first or offer paid upgrades first and they do the points upgrades.

 

[Foreigner]

There are a few doubters in this post. I got a call on Tuesday from qantas in Brisbane referring to my flight to the usa from sydney on friday. The person said despite the class booked not entitled to upgrade, airline was offering upgrade to business class for 72k points provided i confirmed accptance by 5.00 pm brisbane time that day. i was given a 1300 number and told there were 4 or 5 agents who would answer my call if i were to ring back. when i asked how the loading was, i was informed it was half full in both business as well as economy class. being a daytime flight, i believe i will be able to stretch out in the back of the plane and save points for an overnight flight. had the offer been for 36k points, i would have grabbed the offer. i wouldnt have paid cash for upgrade.
f

 

[serfty]

Interesting ...

I would say that all Qantas fligts from SYD to LAX/SFO involve overnighting, arriving as they do in the morning of the same date you departed on. 72K is the standard Disc. Y to J upgrade point cost.

I would have taken it!

 

[JohnK]

Silly thought I know but could all the offers of upgrades be due to falling passenger numbers in premium cabins and Qantas trying to get people to sit upfront anyway possible to fudge the numbers?

72K is the standard Disc. Y to J upgrade point cost.

That is half the number of QFF points needed for a QF Oneworld RTW award. I can sit in WHY for 14 hours if it means I can my father on a RTW trip....