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Qantas-Jetstar already gouging essential travellers

straitman

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I flew a couple of years ago with PR from Melbourne to Taipei via Manila (stopover was arranged by the travel agent one way at no extra cost) for $1210 in J: 1-2-1 on A333 to/from MNL and a less attractive business class (2-2) on A320 MNL-TPE v.v. That was a one-off, unlikely to be repeated at such a low fare. Service on board was good.

So sorry, but $1500 for a one way trip MEL-SYD or v.v. is gouging in my humble view, even if during COVID-19 it's typicaly been on the QF A333 not a B738 as is more the case during 'normal' times.
Using your logic all the airlines might as well pack up now.

You are seriously underestimating the cost of running an aircraft and an airline. Look at the capital cost of an aircraft (737 approx $A190M) and the fixed and variable operating cost and it's just horrendous.

Remember the old saying that the way to make a small fortune in aviation is to start with a large fortune.
 

MEL_Traveller

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You are seriously underestimating the cost of running an aircraft and an airline. Look at the capital cost of an aircraft (737 approx $A190M) and the fixed and variable operating cost and it's just horrendous.

The airline isn't purchasing the aircraft just for this flight. Although there will be some loss of the 'economies of scale' because flights might only be operating once a day, and crews will - presumably - being paid for 8 hour shifts (or other minimum hours as stipulated by relevant agreements).

Those figures in the AFF report are about a year old, when fuel was much higher. And they do say you need to double the costs by the time you include other costs. But even so, that's about $120 per seat for a flight MEL-SYD.
 

Melburnian1

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Using your logic all the airlines might as well pack up now.

You are seriously underestimating the cost of running an aircraft and an airline. Look at the capital cost of an aircraft (737 approx $A190M) and the fixed and variable operating cost and it's just horrendous.

Remember the old saying that the way to make a small fortune in aviation is to start with a large fortune.
I'n not underestimating the 'costs.' They are high, but Qantas' usual seat cost per kilometre isn't $2.10, which is roughly what a $1492 one way fare for 706 or 707 air km is.

Normally, a B737 (or A332/3 used domestically) might make (depending on sector lengths) four to eight single sector trips per day if the demand is there.

No airline buys an aircraft (for domestic use) expecting it to just make one or two single short sector trips per day on average. In 'normal' times, QFd operations are often highly profitable (overall) and even though VAd according to Mr Joyce wasn't well run, it too turned a profit on its domestic flying (though not on every route, some smaller ones being problematic from media reports and the company's admissions).
 
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dajop

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I'n not underestimating the 'costs.' They are high, but Qantas' usual seat cost per kilometre isn't $2.10, which is roughly what a $1492 one way fare for 706 or 707 air km is.
IMHO, $1492 for a one way J fare is not as expensive as the full Y fare which is $879. Given you can fit 1.85 Y seats for every J seat, the $1492 J fare equates to an equivalent Y fare of "only" ( :rolleyes: ) $806. Also is it gouging, as it is a "luxury item" anyway ? I think a case could be mounted for price gouging in Y - but business class, less so. And furthermore if someone doesn't want to pay QF's "inflated" prices, they can take Jetstar. Or the train.
 

drron

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After booking my flights LST-BNE moved up $99 to $632.Flex-$1114.
 

PineappleSkip

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After Qld’s surprise reopening, priced flights for 2 BNE-CNS Mon 15 Jun out, 20 Jun back.

QF and VA both sold out on 15 Jun, can do QF-QF DH4s via MKY on 16 Jun for an eye watering $886, VA on 17 Jun for $395, flexible fare. Coming back could do JQ for $579 each.

Not much change out of $3000 for a Y return on Qantaslink out, Jetstar back. We’re driving, but not to CNS.

cheers skip.
 

davidj

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Just a word of caution.

OP is a first time poster. On these boards when a first time poster comes in all guns blazing with ACCC threats etc, it’s often (not always) the sign of a troll.
Who cares, its the point that matters. If its rubbish happy to rubbish the OP (like any other post), but if its a good point, welcome to AFF OP.
 

straitman

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I'n not underestimating the 'costs.' They are high, but Qantas' usual seat cost per kilometre isn't $2.10, which is roughly what a $1492 one way fare for 706 or 707 air km is.

Normally, a B737 (or A332/3 used domestically) might make (depending on sector lengths) four to eight single sector trips per day if the demand is there.

No airline buys an aircraft (for domestic use) expecting it to just make one or two single short sector trips per day on average. In 'normal' times, QFd operations are often highly profitable (overall) and even though VAd according to Mr Joyce wasn't well run, it too turned a profit on its domestic flying (though not on every route, some smaller ones being problematic from media reports and the company's admissions).
Thank you as you have addressed much of my answer for me.

One flight per day is about 1.5% of the QF normal daily flights on the route but that one flight per day is now carrying the overheads of the (approximate) 66 flights so that bumps the individual cost up a whole lot.

Aircraft seat pricing is a staggered cost. Some really cheap, some really expensive and the majority in the middle. I would suggest the high cost seats you are quoting are normally there but not what most here would normally look at. Back in the Kendall Aviation days, Don Kendall always planned for an aircraft to depart with one empty seat. Why? Because the number of times a businessman would want the last minute seat at any cost far outweighed (and out costed) the number of times it actually departed empty.

More information on the overall cost breakdown would help you see all of this. Build yourself a spreadsheet incorporating all costs and you will be surprised how and where the money goes. eg adding or subtracting a 'peanut' (for example) to the inflight catering can change costs by millions on a per annum basis.
 

offshore171

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Who cares, its the point that matters.
Yeah it was more just a polite headsup to the forum regulars that it *may* have been bait intended to start a big barney, so that people don't go in boots and all.

As an aside, it's genuinely interesting that the OP has still not returned.
 

bpeteb

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After Qld’s surprise reopening, priced flights for 2 BNE-CNS Mon 15 Jun out, 20 Jun back.

QF and VA both sold out on 15 Jun, can do QF-QF DH4s via MKY on 16 Jun for an eye watering $886, VA on 17 Jun for $395, flexible fare. Coming back could do JQ for $579 each.

Not much change out of $3000 for a Y return on Qantaslink out, Jetstar back. We’re driving, but not to CNS.

cheers skip.
BNE-CNS was 130ish when we looked last week (for July). I booked last night at 157 each for July 31. That's a good price, certainly not a gouge. Then with the $30 hotel voucher that dropped into my email after I booked we've got our last night of our two and a bit weeks away, at the Ramada Resort Wyndham something something at Port Douglas, for $89
 

jb747

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True, but $1500 in J for a single journey on the MEL-SYD route is way above normal fares and so some (myself included) consider that 'gouging', even if it's also true that there's an element of subjectivity involved.
But normal fares are really only extant in normal times. These certainly aren't. There is no economy of scale. Make a private booking with a biz jet and see what that costs.

All of the fares that people bemoan the loss of (me included) rely on a certain amount of overcapacity to allow the low fares to exist. I only ever flew between Albury and Melbourne when I could find cheap seats. If I missed out, I drove. At the moment, the Sydney - Melbourne route is in a similar boat.

The upshot is that whilst capacity is low, and fares high, air travel is a luxury that most cannot (or will not) afford. Presumably it will come back, but other than a few teasers, I don't expect cheap fares to be anywhere near as common as they were.
 

nutwood

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One way.I am flying home. :D
You did well to get a seat. I was trying to book LST-MEL last week and had the choice of last Friday or June 12th. I grabbed last Friday, even though I really wanted a Monday. I was heading for Adelaide, so drove from Melbourne over the weekend.
Cost me $370 each way Flex. Economy was about $350. A couple of weeks ago, economy was $130. I think the dropping of the mandatory hotel detention is seeing a lot of FIFO workers coming home.
Flight was almost full. I'm pretty sure a Dash 8 takes 74, for COVID, they're using window seats only and blocking row 1, which brings it back to 36. I was 2D. 2A & 2B were empty and the head count was 35, which makes sense. I'm not sure what the other seats sold for but I would presume the first few were cheap and the price went up as the flight filled. Economically (ignoring fixed costs), I would think the flight would return similar revenue to normal times, flying partially full, with most seats at a discount price.
 

flydoc

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Another data point: QF859, the current twice-weekly DRW-ASP service (previously up to twice DAILY) is fully booked on Wed 10/6/20.
Can waitlist and expect to pay $1034 if any seats become available.
 
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