Qantas Cancels 787-9 order

[mikew]

14 are with international. That leaves a limited amount intended for domestic use

But if all of the 767's do get retired and all of the A330's from Jetstar come back to Qantas then the Qantas Domestic/Qantas International fleet will be 12 aircraft down as a direct consequence. What routes will these come from?

 

[Justchecking]

There were never any plans for 787's for Qantas International anyway, they were going to domestic to replace the 767's. So really it hasn't changed the game for international one bit.

In which case, this latest move makes even less sense. So cancel a new and efficient aircraft that was going to knock the A330 competition out of the water on the transcontinential route and keep an older, fuel inefficient aircraft in the skies longer in the absence of the alternative? Clearly there's more to this aircraft shuffle than meets the eye but it seems expensive to....

Refit an aircraft long past it's useby date and pay higher fuel costs per sector
Replace that aircraft with retired A330s from Jetstar to compete with new A330s that your competition run on the same route.
Pay to refit these old A330s as well as no doubt the seats and cabin layout will not reflect the QF brand.

My main disappointment is just that with all the hype of the 787 tour and all that this year, Australia won't actually be getting any of them....soon...or ever.

 

[rtyuiop]

Given the large number of other airlines now quite happily operating large 777/A330 fleets (and I believe between the two of them, they cover the 787 range/payload capabilities quite nicely but not quite as efficiently) which were purchased at about the same time QF would have been making a decision, I don't think you can say everyone else believed Boeing's delivery schedule for the 787...

Danny

 

[Awesom Andy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the fuel burn for the 767 and the A330 would be similar for routes within the golden triangle? Given the nature of these sectors, there's not enough cruise time to make a large difference to fuel use.

 

[oz_mark]

Qantas have 23 767's and Jetstar only have 11 A330's. Are there more A330's awaiting delivery to Jetstar to replace this void?

There are 7 of the 767s being retired shortly anyway, with 16 being refurbished. That narrows down the gap a bit.

 

[tuppaware]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the fuel burn for the 767 and the A330 would be similar for routes within the golden triangle? Given the nature of these sectors, there's not enough cruise time to make a large difference to fuel use.

Think about cost per seat/ per mile rather then just fuel cost.
Newer A330 cost less to maintain and run then the 767's ,

 

[ajw373]

In which case, this latest move makes even less sense. So cancel a new and efficient aircraft that was going to knock the A330 competition out of the water on the transcontinential route and keep an older, fuel inefficient aircraft in the skies longer in the absence of the alternative? Clearly there's more to this aircraft shuffle than meets the eye but it seems expensive to....

Refit an aircraft long past it's useby date and pay higher fuel costs per sector
Replace that aircraft with retired A330s from Jetstar to compete with new A330s that your competition run on the same route.
Pay to refit these old A330s as well as no doubt the seats and cabin layout will not reflect the QF brand.

My main disappointment is just that with all the hype of the 787 tour and all that this year, Australia won't actually be getting any of them....soon...or ever.

Clearly the 767's are fully paid for, so there is a major cost offset there. As for the A330's the early ones came from Qantas so the seats and cabin are Qantas (domestic) spec and the later ones were built the same so no hard to convert back to Qantas colours. And yes Australia will be getting them soon, in Jetstar colours.

 

[markis10]

There are 7 of the 767s being retired shortly anyway, with 16 being refurbished. That narrows down the gap a bit.

Probably also worth pointing out there is only 22 passenger 767s.

 

[lovestotravel]

Well purchase rights mean something otherwise Boeing wouldn't offer them.

More guessing. And for goodness sake they HAVE NOT CANCELLED THE ORDER!!! The effect of what has been announced today is to DELAY the delivery by 2 years to 2016. Exactly as you say if QF wants them - "moved the order back"

Yes they mean something, but they are not longer a guaranteed order...

The ORDER of 35 is cancelled and the remainder are OPTIONAL to purchase

Qantas cancels jet orders as it posts first loss

The world CANCEL is mentioned quite a few times....

If QF wanted the 787-9 they would have left the order as an order and pushed them back to 2016

Instead they have cancelled the order, but said we MAY buy them later on, but AJ said it depends on QFi improving...... We all know that's not going to happen

 

[markis10]

I wonder if VA are on the phone trying to get the QF Dreamliner slots?

 

[Platinum A332]

Can we get a refurb for the A330 operating into Asia then Red Roo? The current product is nearly 10 years old, and it is insulting compared to airlines such as CX and SQ.

 

[lovestotravel]

I wonder if VA are on the phone trying to get the QF Dreamliner slots?

Funny you say that.......

 

[MarcB]

Yes they mean something, but they are not longer a guaranteed order...

The ORDER of 35 is cancelled and the remainder are OPTIONAL to purchase

Qantas cancels jet orders as it posts first loss

The world CANCEL is mentioned quite a few times....

If QF wanted the 787-9 they would have left the order as an order and pushed them back to 2016

Instead they have cancelled the order, but said we MAY buy them later on, but AJ said it depends on QFi improving...... We all know that's not going to happen

It's also possible that by cancelling the firm orders (which in turn means they can be sold to other airlines) and retaining the options, they've been able to trigger liquidated damages provisions under those orders for the delays, thereby getting cash payments from Boeing.

 

[cmon0005]

I don't see much of a problem personally, although 787 would be nice, If the A330's they get back from J* are refurbed I wouldn't mind. Any 2 aisle plane is better than a single aisle 737 any day of the week for domestic routes.

 

[mannej]

Think about cost per seat/ per mile rather then just fuel cost.
Newer A330 cost less to maintain and run then the 767's ,

JB has mentioned previously that the cost difference for the routes they are on aren't that great.

As a matter of interest how far away are we from seeing a 789 built?

 

[lovestotravel]

It's also possible that by cancelling the firm orders (which in turn means they can be sold to other airlines) and retaining the options, they've been able to trigger liquidated damages provisions under those orders for the delays, thereby getting cash payments from Boeing.

Indeed.......

 

[Awesom Andy]

Can we get a refurb for the A330 operating into Asia then Red Roo? The current product is nearly 10 years old, and it is insulting compared to airlines such as CX and SQ.

SQ is planning to launch new cabins, and their current long-haul products (the A380 and the newer 777 at least) already have cabins that are NEWER than QF's A330.

 

[mannej]

Clearly the 767's are fully paid for, so there is a major cost offset there. As for the A330's the early ones came from Qantas so the seats and cabin are Qantas (domestic) spec and the later ones were built the same so no hard to convert back to Qantas colours. And yes Australia will be getting them soon, in Jetstar colours.

Would the returning 330's get IFE in their refurb back to QF spec?

 

[lovestotravel]

SQ is planning to launch new cabins, and their current long-haul products (the A380 and the newer 777 at least) already have cabins that are NEWER than QF's A330.

Yep the next back of 6 or 8 77W's for SQ will have a newer cabin fit out!

Plus some of the A380's may/will get refitted

SQ are a great airline and with 2 x A380 flights to MEL now I am VERY HAPPY

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Qantas to become the domestic arm, Jetstar to become International arm, thats my take on the future.

Jetstar to become the domestic arm, Jetstar to become the International arm.....sorry, did l leave QF out somewhere....????