Qantas are to enforce the 4 segment rule for status!

[Dave Noble]

Don't you need to travel Club level before you are invited to join BAEC?

Nope. Completely wrong

Dave

 

[JohnK]

Nope. Completely wrong

Well there you have it folks. It is not the first time in my life I am wrong and more than likely it will not be the last.

Am I correct in saying that top status in BAEC is hard to attain? If not, then I am wrong again!

 

[Dave Noble]

Well there you have it folks. It is not the first time in my life I am wrong and more than likely it will not be the last.

Am I correct in saying that top status in BAEC is hard to attain? If not, then I am wrong again!

In some ways it is easier and in others harder than QF since points earnings are different

On BA, only HBY economy classes earn Tier Points

For points earning for UK travel , Eurotraveler and Club Europe

20 points economy
40 points club europe

UK - Australia
110 points Economy
135 points World Traveller Plus
220 points Business Class
330 points First

Other BA Flights

60 points Economy
75 points World Traveller Plus
120 points Business Class
180 points First

If having an address in Continental Europe

Points required for Silver Status (Continental Europe) - 400 otherwise 600
Points required for Gold Status - (Continental Europe) - 800 otherwise 1200

Depending on travel , BA can be much easier than QF to attain status.

e.g. Using a Qantas World Discovery type ticket booked in H class, on BA it will earn full TPs for the whole trip whilst on QF it earns discount economy except for AU domestics

There are also some great BA codeshares that rake in the points. if flying on BA from Amsterdam to Melbourne in Club World via LHR , SIN and SYD connecting on the BA codeshare to MEL, the earning would be 40+120+120+120 = 400 one way , so a return of 800 which can be enough to renew Gold Status ( AMS-Oz is ime around AUD5600 )

If travelling in WT+ for the same route , would earn 40+75+75+60 = 250 *2 = 500 so another easy requalify for silver for someone in Europe and nearly done for a UK person

If travelling in H, would earn 20+60+60+60= 200*2 = 400 so quite a nice renewal for a Continental Europe person, not as nice as an AA Platinum Challenge but this can be done every year

Other delights are of course 91 miles flight BAH-DOH in F earning 180TPs each way and is pretty cheap

Fly MEL-SYD for example on a BA codeshare in business class and earn 120TPs each way

If however a person travels primarily on cheap discounted tickets, then the BAEC is not that generous since no TP earning occurs. I wouldn't be too upset if QF removed SC earning on low classes but increased them on the higher classes a la BA particularly for international travel

One noticeable difference is that with BA , on attaining status the membership year is immediately reset and a new year starts at the new level so to attain Gold, it is necessary to acquire the points for Silver and then you have a new year in order to attain the points for Gold , so initially it requires 400+800 or 600+1200

I would say that for a fair number of people BA status can be easier to attain than QF

Do note however that BA has no lifetime status but if earning (iirc) 2200TPs in a year as gold awards a voucher giving a systemwide upgrade for 2 people

Dave

 

[Keith009]

Am I correct in saying that top status in BAEC is hard to attain? If not, then I am wrong again!

There's always EuroGold and the BAH-DOH....

edited to add - whoops Dave Noble has very kindly provided an eloquent explanation of what I meant above, so ignore this response.

And I think Simon refered to the ChAAllenge as harsh in relative terms to airlines like UA who'll simply give you *G status upon presentation of a oneworld/ST status.

If it was a totally new rule I'd agree with you. But since the rule has been there for a while now, QF has given notice. Now if some people choose to assume the old lack of enforcement was always going to apply then that is too bad.

I'd still argue that it's insufficient notice when people have gotten used to how status in QFF has operated, ie the lack of enforcement of the min 4 own-metal segments rule. I remember calling up QFF ages ago to enquire about the 4 segments rule, only to be told by 3 different reps that they haven't even heard of the requirement and that it's only the requisite SCs that mattered.

Regardless of whether they're legally required to (very YMMV in standard form contracts), I still hope that QFF will be a little more lenient on enforcing the new requirement.

 

[simongr]

In relation to the harshness of the challenge - I was just comparing it to say just giving a call to UA and them status matching to their equivalent level - at least on AA you need to fly.

It very hard to compare the "ease" of qualiification across airlines - for me personally AA EXP is going to be hard work to achieve because of their calendar qualifying period and no significant premium for travelling in business class. In simplistic terms full fare economy of AA earns the same status qualification points as J/F whereas on QF the ratio is 1:2:3.

If I compare my current DONE4 between QF and AA I am just requalifying for AA but comprehensively qualifying for QF at the same level and would almost have made Platinum (1290 SCs off this trip potentially).

It is very hard to compare the programs due their individual quirks and travellers personal quirks. I would definitely be better off from a status perspective on QF than AA and I would probably direct more flights to QF if I was earning on there (as then I would have more points to upgrade) - but that's just me and as you rightly point out JohnK - YMMV

 

[serfty]

You don't even need to do an AA challenge to get Sapphire status on oneWORLD. USD1500 can get AA flights that earn those 700SC's with QFF.

As per the thread title, you still need to travel on four paid QF/JQ flight segments to be eligible.

It's partly to do with differences in air travel in OZ and the US. J (& F) travel within/ex Oz on QF costs roughly 4 (& 6) times what WHY costs. In the US for AA travel it's approximately double the costs for F/J when compared to Coach. This difference is somewhat reflected in the variance with elite status attainability of the QF and AA frequent flyer programs.

 

[Dave Noble]

It's to do with differences in air travel in OZ and the US. J (& F) trravel within/ex Oz on QF costs roughly 4 (& 6) times what discount Y costs. In the US for AA travel it's approximately double the costs for F/J when compared to Coach. This difference is reflected in the variance with elite status attainability of the QF and AA frequent flyer programs.

I wouldn't agree with that assertion. Other than some YUP/KUP fares where they exist , AA 1st class travel is v expensive '

Picking a route at random ( ORD - MIA ), the cheapest economy r/t fare is USD118 plus tax whilst the cheapest 1st class fare KUPP26T is USD1308 with a F26T at USD2048 and F at USD3300

Taking another route ( ORD - DFW ) $164 cheapest economy r/t vs USD868 for the KUPP7MZ fare and $2146 for the F26 fare and $2878 for the F fare

Dave

 

[serfty]

Perhaps If I rephrase; "F & J cabin travel can be purchased on AA for a lot less in relation to cost ratio when compared to a WHY fare than a similar situation on QF".

 

[Dave Noble]

Perhaps If I rephrase; "F & J cabin travel can be purchased on AA for a lot less in relation to cost ratio when compared to a WHY fare than a similar situation on QF".

I still dont see that to be the case. Unrestricted F and J on AA is exhorbitantly expensive ; take the examples above, $2000 vs $118 for a ORD-MIA for example and $164 vs $2146 on an ORD-DFW ( note fares exclude taxes )

Where they exist, then the xUP fares do bring the magnitude down, however there is still a risk that if having to make changes later that the discount inventory will be unavailable and will have to rebook in K or Y. On the routes mentioned, the KUP fares are 11.08 and 5.29 times the cost

Taking QF comparisons ; on a SYD-MEL, the cheapest economy is $140 and the DOX is $440 , so only 3.14 times the cost and the full J $605 , so 4.32 times the cost of the cheapest Y fare ( inc taxes ). Taking a SYD-PER run, the lowest fare is $270 with the J fare being $1565 ( 5.8 times the cost ). Compare that with the unrestricted fare from ORD-MIA being 28 times more expensive than the economy or the ORD-DFW being 17 times more expensive

I would maintain that QFs premium class fares are more reasonable in magnitude to the economy fares than AAs

AAs front cabin can be a lot cheaper to get into thanks to upgrade credits , but these fares would onlt count for original economy earning.

Dave

 

[serfty]

There's many instance where variance can be shown;

140 Super Savers fares in a year MEL/SYD will earn one QF WP on the QFF program.

100 of the same flights credited to AAdvantage will earn EXP.

I was trying to indicate a trend; that QFF has been set up for Oz travel and differences on local situations such as that with AA can cause anomalies. Perhaps it a perception I have that I will need to rectify.

 

[Dave Noble]

There's many instance where variance can be shown;

140 Super Savers fares in a year MEL/SYD will earn one QF WP on the QFF program.

100 of the same flights credited to AAdvantage will earn EXP.

I was trying to indicate a trend; that QFF has been set up for Oz travel and differences on local situations such as that with AA can cause anomalies. Perhaps it a perception I have that I will need to rectify.

I wouldn't disagree there. Depending on travel and class flown, the ease of attaining status varies. For those travelling on business with K fares, then 70 flights will get WP status whilst on AA it will still be 100 and those whose organisations pay for business will clear it in 35 trips on QF whilst it is still 100 on AA

What I was referring to was the comment

It's partly to do with differences in air travel in OZ and the US. J (& F) travel within/ex Oz on QF costs roughly 4 (& 6) times what WHY costs. In the US for AA travel it's approximately double the costs for F/J when compared to Coach. This difference is somewhat reflected in the variance with elite status attainability of the QF and AA frequent flyer programs.

I agree that it costs 4-6 times more for a QF premium class ticket, however the comment that on AA it is just double seems completely wrong to me and that in most cases I see, the difference in price to pay for a premium seat is a greater multiple of the lowest economy fare than on QF

Dave

 

[JohnK]

You don't even need to do an AA challenge to get Sapphire status on oneWORLD. USD1500 can get AA flights that earn those 700SC's with QFF.

I agree. I don't think it is fair to the people that predominantly fly in Australia that Oneworld Sapphire status is attainable with such ease and not having to fly a single QF segment.

By enforcing the 4 segment rule, I don't think QF will lose very much in revenue if overseas based FF'ers deserted the QFF program.

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

I wouldn't disagree there. Depending on travel and class flown, the ease of attaining status varies. For those travelling on business with K fares, then 70 flights will get WP status whilst on AA it will still be 100 and those whose organisations pay for business will clear it in 35 trips on QF whilst it is still 100 on AA

It is only 70 in Australia on QFF. It is 140 in NZ on QFF.

 

[Dave Noble]

It is only 70 in Australia on QFF. It is 140 in NZ on QFF.

True indeed, but I was replying to the comment regarding MEL/SYD runs

Dave

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

True indeed, but I was replying to the comment regarding MEL/SYD runs

Dave

Sure. While your example would qualify faster on QFF, my example would qualify status faster on AAdvantage.

 

[NM]

I think you know what I meant. In the past you could spend A$1,500 on a ticket and you got OneWorld Sapphire status through the AA program with a simple SYD-SIN-LHR-SIN-SYD ticket. How would a person spending $10,000 feel about it? If I was spending money on F ticket I would really be disappointed.

As a person who qualified for AA Platinum using a ticket that cost over $10,000, I can honestly say that I would be one of the first to congratulate the $1500 spender on stealing their candy. They met the criteria and so earned the status. This community is about maximising the benefits of FF membership, and I would say someone who managed to attain OW Sapphire status by spending $1500 pretty much epitomises the reasons we share our experiences.

If they never fly again, then they fail to gain much in the way of benefits from their candy theft. To renew their status, then need to spend considerably more next year, and AA know that.

And although I qualified for AA Platinum status in just one fight, the itinerary earned enough EQP to also renew that status for the following year. So the candy theft was really just a status match for me - albeit to a lower status than I held with another airline.
[quote-JohnK]I said it before and I will say it again. I would have made it at least 16 sectors on QF, each membership year, to be able to qualify for any sort of status. Am I wrong? Maybe, you decide! Someone will miss out? Tough![/quote]
I believe a 16 sector requirement would be wrong for QF. I will again use myself as an example. Last year I did about 10 sectors on QF flights. But all my tickets are purchased through QF so they are making plenty of money out of my tickets, including fuel surcharges for at least 8 sectors for which they inured no fuel costs. My spend with Qantas last year was over $12,000. By your rules my travel pattern would not qualify for QF Gold, let alone Platinum. In reality, it has qualified me for AA Platinum and OneWorld Sapphire, but only included 5 sectors flown on AA. Just because my travel anf spend patterns are different to yours does not mean I any less deserving of hold OneWorld Sapphire status than anyone else.

Try to earn high status on IB, AY, LA, LH etc etc. From what I understand on AY you need at least 3 years of flying before you can even be eligible for Oneworld Emerald.

Thankfully all FF programs are not the same, allowing people to choose the one that best matches their travel and spend pattern. One of the real benefits of a community like this one is the knowledge and information sharing that helps people to make an informed decision about the best program for their circumstances.

Even better try to earn status on BA on economy airfares. Don't you need to travel Club level before you are invited to join BAEC?

No. You don't have to fly business class to join. Just not on the most discounted fares. That is fine by me. It just means that the BA program may not be the most suitable for some people, just like QF or AA is not the most suitable for some other people.

 

[NM]

One noticeable difference is that with BA , on attaining status the membership year is immediately reset and a new year starts at the new level so to attain Gold, it is necessary to acquire the points for Silver and then you have a new year in order to attain the points for Gold , so initially it requires 400+800 or 600+1200

And note that each time you earn the TPs sufficient to move up a tier, you must have the 4 BA segments flown before you move up. And the TPs are reset to zero when you complete the 4 segments and move up to the next tier. So if you start out as blue and have 3000 TPs flown before you make your 4th BA segment, all 3000 TPs are then lost as the tally is reset to zero and your anniversary date is reset and Silver status granted. To reach Gold you still require an 800 (for continental Europe member) in the next 12 months as well as 4 BA segments.

So to reach BA Gold status from starting out at Blue level actually requires a minimum of 8 BA segments.

 

[Dave Noble]

So to reach BA Gold status from starting out at Blue level actually requires a minimum of 8 BA segments.

True, but you still only need 4 BA sectors per membership year

Dave

 

[NM]

True, but you still only need 4 BA sectors per membership year

Dave

Yes, you could spread it over two years. Just depends how quickly you move up through the status ranks.

 

[Dave Noble]

I believe a 16 sector requirement would be wrong for QF. I will again use myself as an example. Last year I did about 10 sectors on QF flights. But all my tickets are purchased through QF so they are making plenty of money out of my tickets, including fuel surcharges for at least 8 sectors for which they inured no fuel costs. My spend with Qantas last year was over $12,000. By your rules my travel pattern would not qualify for QF Gold, let alone Platinum. In reality, it has qualified me for AA Platinum and OneWorld Sapphire, but only included 5 sectors flown on AA. Just because my travel anf spend patterns are different to yours does not mean I any less deserving of hold OneWorld Sapphire status than anyone else.

Perhaps the fairest way would be for QF to use a model akin to SQ PPS where status is awarded based on a spending amount per annum. e.g. $12,500 spending to get Platinum status (would line up similarly to the way AA offers EXP on purchase of an AA debit card). This then is fair on all members providing rewards based on spending rather than those spending their time trying to attain status by taking convoluted routings or hunting out cheap high earning routes and repeatedly flying them

Dave