Qantas a330 downgrades

[Isochronous]

You'd have an argument if the change was to schedule but an eqipment change? Nope.

I get it. You wanted the suites for a longer flight and to get the 737 transcon is a real let down, but it was also your choice to cancel and re-book with VA. I see no issue with QF charging the appropriate fees for the cancel (I'd arguge about the phone service fee given you couldn't cancel online due to the upgrade, but that's a separate issue).

You bought a ticket for carriage from A to B to a certain schedule and in c class of service (inc upgrade, which it seems held even with the swap). QF proided what you paid for even if it wasn't what you wanted.

Yes I'd be annoyed, but I wouldn't have rebooked. Each to their own

There was a VCAT case about 10 years ago where someone was awarded $500 when the equipment change meant they got Skybed 1 instead of Skybed 2, but that was only after they had been specifically told on the phone by Qantas that their booking would definitely have Skybed 2.

 

[JohnK]

You're not paying for an aircraft type, you are paying to get to a destination. You can send them feedback, but honestly they wouldn't care.

I disagree. I'm booking to fly on a specific aircraft to get to my destination.

There's no comparison between sitting sideways on a 787 to the comfort of a 747/A380 in economy. And I'd hate to pay the ~$200 premium Qantas wants for the A380 to/from SIN and then find I'm on a 787/A330 which I could have got $200 cheaper.

P.S. This could have been avoided with a 2-4-2 configuration on the 787 instead of the narrow seats.

 

[GoldCanyon340]

I’m sympathetic to both sides of the argument here. However I have a significant wedding anniversary approaching and it’s being spent in Indonesia, namely Ubud and Jogya. Rather than QF43 to DPS we are positioning on the 41 to CGK and then on Garuda to DPS the next morning solely to get the J suites from SYD. I’d be sorely aggravated if the 41 got the Skybed treatment, let alone a 738.

Edit: And, yes, only an AFFer would consider positioning flights for a wedding anniversary. Guilty as charged.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Well, Goldcanyon340, hopefully your wide body QF41 does not get swapped to a Boeing737.
Currently listed to be flown on an Airbus330.

 

[mannej]

Well, Goldcanyon340, hopefully your wide body QF41 does not get swapped to a Boeing737.
Currently listed to be flown on an Airbus330.

When exactly has QF41/42 ever been on a 737?

FWIW, QF41/42 has only been on Skybed once this year. Why overthink things?

 

[tea&coffee]

You’ll be fine to CGK - I fly that very frequently and haven’t had the Skybed aircraft for as long as I can remember. You do however almost always get a 200 which isn’t great with the single bathroom.

 

[RichardMEL]

I disagree. I'm booking to fly on a specific aircraft to get to my destination.

There's no comparison between sitting sideways on a 787 to the comfort of a 747/A380 in economy. And I'd hate to pay the ~$200 premium Qantas wants for the A380 to/from SIN and then find I'm on a 787/A330 which I could have got $200 cheaper.

P.S. This could have been avoided with a 2-4-2 configuration on the 787 instead of the narrow seats.

Sorry John but you're talking about your EXPECTATION not any airline's obligation.

The Contract of Carriage for any ticket bought never specifies guarantees about any service elements.. the contract is to fly you from A to B per your ticket with appropriate cluaises for delays, cancellations(by the airline) and the like.

Don't get me wrong... I will book MEL-SYD connections on (ever more rare ) 330s for the comfort factor absolutely. I totally get it.. but by the same token if/when a sub is made - either a schedule change or an operational change on the day due to mechanical or other reasons, I simply have no leg to stand on if the airline gets me there within the schedule. If they miss the schedule then yes, there's cause for compensation. If the aircraft I'm on has a faulty seat or IFE then yep I'd agree...

but, despite the anecodte aove about skybeds, I do not see any obligation from any airline to provide specific configurations.

And your comment about 2-4-2 seating underscores this - that is YOUR personal preference.. doesn't mean it is the same for everyone.

Also remember th vast majority of thef flying public don't even know or care what sort of aircraft they are on. It's a plane.. it takes them to where they want to go. Sure, more frequent flyers like most of us here know the differences and seek out what we prefer, but we also have to understand the realities of travel that sometimes things change...

 

[JohnK]

Sorry John but you're talking about your EXPECTATION not any airline's obligation.

Sorry but it should be an airlines obligation.

We're going back to old discussions but if I pay a premium for a product then I'd expect to receive that product not an inferior product. And I am the sole judge of inferior not the airline.

Question for you please. You pay $250 for a 30 minute limousine transfer from airport to hotel and they turn up with a Honda Jazz because all they are obliged to do is get you to your hotel right?

If I pay for 747/A380 then I'd expect to be seated in one not an uncomfortable A330/787.

 

[mannej]

Sorry but it should be an airlines obligation.

We're going back to old discussions but if I pay a premium for a product then I'd expect to receive that product not an inferior product. And I am the sole judge of inferior not the airline.

Question for you please. You pay $250 for a 30 minute limousine transfer from airport to hotel and they turn up with a Honda Jazz because all they are obliged to do is get you to your hotel right?

If I pay for 747/A380 then I'd expect to be seated in one not an uncomfortable A330/787.

The Honda Jazz analogy doesn't really fit the situation.

 

[JohnK]

The Honda Jazz analogy doesn't really fit the situation.

I'm sorry but it does. I have no doubt a 3-3-3 787 layout is inferior to 747/A380. If @JessicaTam struggled then it'd be worse for me as my shoulders/back are wider and I'm not sitting sideways.

I will try not to book a 787 and I'd expect the airline to do the same. Don't substitute a 787 at the last minute for 747/A380 routes.

 

[RichardMEL]

I'm sorry but it does. I have no doubt a 3-3-3 787 layout is inferior to 747/A380. If @JessicaTam struggled then it'd be worse for me as my shoulders/back are wider and I'm not sitting sideways.

I will try not to book a 787 and I'd expect the airline to do the same. Don't substitute a 787 at the last minute for 747/A380 routes.

1. You're stating an opinion, not a fact (and that's my opinion ) re the config of the 787 v 380/747. Regardless many others find the 787 better due to speed (over the 380) and overall cabin comfort (higher humidity levels etc).

2. You're seriously saying that if you've booked a 744 and it goes Mech you'd be that pissed off if they subbed in a 787 for a flight to say LAX or SFO? What if your option was to take the flight or wait 12+ hours? Some people have flexibility, some do not.

As for your limo transfer analogy... your Honda would be akin to you buying J on a flight and being downgraded to Y (or PE) in which case the company would be obliged to pay compensation. Your anology would be better if you booked a Merc and they showed up with a BMW.

I understand your desire that airlines be obligated to provided the scheduled equipment/cabin/service of your choice.. we all want that, but again the ticket provides for class of service, but that how they provide that is up to them.. in this case a 737 or an A330 (getting back to the OP's example).

If I got that Honda transfer I'd expect the company to give me compensation or appropriate difference between the limo standard Iooked and the Honda I got.. clearly a very different type of car. Just as if QF downgraded my ticket from J to Y I'd expect either a) opportunity to move to a flight with J and/or b) downgrade compensation (which exists)

As in most things in life, we don't always get what we want, and in the case of your latest example - a last minute sub which would clearly be due to mechanical or other operational reasons well you know in travel "Stuff Happens" - if it were me I'd put up with it because I want to get there.. if I had flexibility I'd perhaps try and organise something else if it were that precious to me, but by the same token I shouldn't whine if the airline wants to charge me change or cancel fees for my choice if they're offering me transport to the schedule and class of service I booked.

 

[mannej]

I'm sorry but it does. I have no doubt a 3-3-3 787 layout is inferior to 747/A380. If @JessicaTam struggled then it'd be worse for me as my shoulders/back are wider and I'm not sitting sideways.

I will try not to book a 787 and I'd expect the airline to do the same. Don't substitute a 787 at the last minute for 747/A380 routes.

Calling a spade a spade, the analogy doesn't work. Comfort on each of these types is subjective, hence why the Honda for a Limo doesn't apply.

This is much closer an anology

As for your limo transfer analogy... your Honda would be akin to you buying J on a flight and being downgraded to Y (or PE) in which case the company would be obliged to pay compensation. Your anology would be better if you booked a Merc and they showed up with a BMW.

 

[JohnK]

1. You're stating an opinion, not a fact (and that's my opinion ) re the config of the 787 v 380/747. Regardless many others find the 787 better due to speed (over the 380) and overall cabin comfort (higher humidity levels etc).

2. You're seriously saying that if you've booked a 744 and it goes Mech you'd be that pissed off if they subbed in a 787 for a flight to say LAX or SFO? What if your option was to take the flight or wait 12+ hours? Some people have flexibility, some do not.

Apologies again but my comfort is not an opinion. It is reality. It is fact. You can't be un-squeezed in. You can't be expected to sit sideways or leaning forward for 8h-9h because an airline got the seat configuration wrong.

Right?

I will try the Qantas 787 once and then make a decision. If it's not for me then Qantas will need to find anoyher way to get me to my destination if they make last minute substitutions.

If it's a schedule change weeks/months out then they have time to re-route me via SIN or HKG on either the 747 or A380.

I'm not asking for much. Just get ne to my destination in the comfort I've paid. And yes I am a difficult customer and don't give up that easily.

 

[RichardMEL]

Apologies again but my comfort is not an opinion. It is reality. It is fact. You can't be un-squeezed in. You can't be expected to sit sideways or leaning forward for 8h-9h because an airline got the seat configuration wrong.

Right?

Disagree. QF's various configs do not make anyomne to lean forward or sit sideways or whatever. It's your OPINION they "got the seat configuration wrong" - it's wrong for you (and probably many others!) but it's still an opinion. To QF they are still Economy Class (or Business Class, or whatever) seats.

I will try the Qantas 787 once and then make a decision. If it's not for me then Qantas will need to find anoyher way to get me to my destination if they make last minute substitutions.

Sorry, so now you admit you haven't actually BEEN on the QF 787 and have already decided it is worse than the 747/380? That's your call, but doesn't seem very fair. Again, it's still your personal opinion as it relates to you. It's not FACT for everyone else.

If it's a schedule change weeks/months out then they have time to re-route me via SIN or HKG on either the 747 or A380.

I'm not asking for much. Just get ne to my destination in the comfort I've paid. And yes I am a difficult customer and don't give up that easily.

They can reroute you, but they will probably want to enact change fees, and I do not thoink "I do not like the aircraft/cabin type" is a valid reason to waive said fees.

You're talking Y travel, so let's say the "comfort" you've paid for is Economy Class. to QF they are equivalent more or less. Yes, you would be being difficult if you expected a reroute based on this factor alone as opposed to schedule etc.. and good luck avoiding change fees in the process

oh and good luck with your notion that you are "the sole judge of inferior not the airline." You buy a cabin of service that's it. You do not dictate what equipment the airline uses to get you there. Maybe you could try arguing for a J seat because you judge Y to be inferior?

if you find QF's product to be uncomfortable and unacceptable to you you can always find other carriers to take you to where you wish to go - that is likely to be the response from the airline!!

IMHO

 

[oz_mark]

Can't see 787s making their way onto other routes as subs for other aircraft in the near future....

 

[JohnK]

Can't see 787s making their way onto other routes as subs for other aircraft in the near future....

I don't either so not going to worry.

 

[michaele]

Well I for one am calling the switch from new a330 product to a falling apart 747 on QF3/4 next feb a downgrade...

 

[serfty]

... well news today that from November "ALL" transpacific flights other than HNL will be scheduled to be A380 or B789 operated. HNL to go all 747 for QF3/QF4.

 

[RichardMEL]

I don't either so not going to worry.

're bagging an aircraft config you have not even tried.

You're bagging an aircraft config you have not even tried. I get 3-3-3 is unpopular, but then again if you, your wife and your daughter were all flying together it would seem ideal. I just find it a bit hgilarious you're so against something you haven't tried.

smh

 

[JohnK]

're bagging an aircraft config you have not even tried.

You're bagging an aircraft config you have not even tried. I get 3-3-3 is unpopular, but then again if you, your wife and your daughter were all flying together it would seem ideal. I just find it a bit hgilarious you're so against something you haven't tried.

Agreed 3-3-3 would be ideal travelling with family but so would 2-4-2 with daughter in window and wife and I in aisle seats.

As for trying an aircraft before judging I think the numbers tell the story. The seats on the 747 and A380 are 17.5" across where as they are 17.2" across on the 787-900 and only 17" across on the A333-300 which explains why I find that aircraft uncomfortable. Sure the pitch is better but that's not my worry.

To understand my concern you need to consider that my shoulders are wider than 17.5" across and I'm already leaning into the aisle on the 747/A380. As the person next to me will also have less seat width I will need to lean into the aisle further or sit sideways. That cannot possibly be comfortable.

God forbid if I end up in window or worse case scenario a middle seat somewhere. That would be torture.

The other thing to consider with A333's and 789s is they have less opportunities for bulkhead aisle over a 747 or A380. From what I can see 40DF are the only 2 bulkhead aisles on the 787 that are not bassinet. Not desirable for me at all unless I pay the exhorbitant exit row fee.

The plan will continue to be 747/A380 for as long as possible and hope/pray I avoid 787 for the time being.