Premium Economy is all about middle class passengers (News article)

[eastwest101]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/lif...k=979f6973597e0ba40d2e2c2bd1aa1c70-1486418316


Article has some reasonable points and seems to match what a lot of our AFF members sometimes say but the headline should really read:

"Market Forces result in airlines renaming and repricing three cabin classes on aircraft, First becomes Business Class with luxury and lay flat beds and sky high prices, Business Class becomes Premium Economy with comfortable seats and half decent food and drinks and Economy Class degraded and made more dense to compete with low cost carriers and competative market forces."


I find it interesting that some companies corporate travel policies can't allow say a $3K J fare but have no problem paying $4K for a premium economy seat for med to long haul travel. Pinching the pennies and throwing away the pounds. I suggest that these policies have resulted in airlines "re-naming" or redefining cabin classes to avoid the blanket "No business class travel" ban that accelerated since the GFC.

The article seems to imply that airlines have found the premium economy product to be quite profitable. Otherwise you would think they wouldn't bother, but note the reference to the tight control that they maintain over the number of premium economy seats, presumably to maintain high yields, or maybe they aren't as comfortable or confident that PE works econmically?

 

[Dalescott]

I personally don't think it's worth the money. Very economy plus, used CX, QF, and China Southern. Only QF came close, and they are silly with their pricing. For just over $4000 you can get Vietnam Airlines.

 

[Himeno]

It seems that every airline that has it, has a different idea of what "Premium Economy" should be.

 

[Isochronous]

It's a bit like the domestic F fares that AA sell which are called "Instant Upgrade" fares - so that "Business" or "First" doesn't appear on the ticket and hence can be approved by the morons who run travel policy for many large organisations.

 

[bsb]

Corp travel is bonkas. My partner works for a multi national and they use a big cc company travel site and have to get best fare of the day. Without fail I can always find better deals (with better conditions) and in the case of international, it's significant. It's so funny. They should pay me 5% over ride on every fare and I'd save them so much money and make me rich in the process and get most of their execs in J or PE at the least.

 

[Isochronous]

Corp travel is bonkas. My partner works for a multi national and they use a big cc company travel site and have to get best fare of the day. Without fail I can always find better deals (with better conditions) and in the case of international, it's significant. It's so funny. They should pay me 5% over ride on every fare and I'd save them so much money and make me rich in the process and get most of their execs in J or PE at the least.

So true. Corporate TAs are the biggest scam going!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

PE is interesting - 25 years since its introduction and we've seen the least amount of improvement in that cabin compared to other premium classes. The 'standard' 38' pitch, 8 abreast, 9 inch recline has pretty much stayed static and is still being introduced by new airlines (like SQ). There were a couple of airlines that tried to buck the trend... TK with their 7 abreast 47 inch pitch, NZ with their space seat... but they have been short-lived. Business class by comparison has moved a lot quicker... starting at 38 inch pitch, then moving to 40/42, then 50, then angled beds versions 1 and 2, then full flats... all fairly quickly by comparison.

The only thing that moved fast with PE was the increase in charging. BR started it with a small premium. Now you can be paying more than business class on some other airlines.

 

[Cool Cat Phil]

PE is a nice alternative to Y, if the price is right. The problem that I've witnessed is that PE is often priced at over double that of Y on many occasions, and I would argue, that PE is probably only worth a 50% premium over Y.

Needless to say, PE is likey to continue to grow in popularity as pax looking to flee the high density and cramped Y cabins that are becoming more and more frequent, particularly on the A350 and B787.

 

[Strategic Aviation]

The 'standard' 38' pitch, 8 abreast, 9 inch recline has pretty much stayed static and is still being introduced by new airlines (like SQ). There were a couple of airlines that tried to buck the trend... TK with their 7 abreast 47 inch pitch, NZ with their space seat... but they have been short-lived.

Qantas has 7 abreast premium economy on the A380s and on the upcoming B787s.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Qantas has 7 abreast premium economy on the A380s and on the upcoming B787s.

the '8 abreast' was a benchmark for size, based on the 747/777. Smaller aircraft may not be able to fit that many across.

 

[Strategic Aviation]

A380 isn't smaller so credit to Qantas for 2-3-2 W on those.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

A380 isn't smaller so credit to Qantas for 2-3-2 W on those.

my bad for not being more clear, I meant aircraft width... not necessarily the size of the aircraft itself.

 

[TomVexille]

A380 isn't smaller so credit to Qantas for 2-3-2 W on those.

That's on the upper deck though, which is only 8 across in Y

 

[Strategic Aviation]

Good point.

 

[Lemon_Party]

PE is a nice alternative to Y, if the price is right. The problem that I've witnessed is that PE is often priced at over double that of Y on many occasions, and I would argue, that PE is probably only worth a 50% premium over Y.

I've tried CX, and only as economy was full and I had to fly, and while its clearly an improvement on Y, its horrendously overpriced. If pricing was 30% more than economy I'd pay a premium, but not the 2-3 times normally seen.

 

[TomVexille]

I've tried CX, and only as economy was full and I had to fly, and while its clearly an improvement on Y, its horrendously overpriced. If pricing was 30% more than economy I'd pay a premium, but not the 2-3 times normally seen.

Even at a 50% premium I'd seriously consider it.

 

[Dalescott]

Generally Premium Economy is 100% dearer than basic economy at it's cheapest. I personally do not believe it worth the extra cost. When for just over $4200 you can fly to LHR or CDG on Vietnam Airlines. in business. Going to LA may be a different issue, as I don't know if the business fares are that cheap in comparison to PE.

 

[smit0847]

Ive always thought it would be sensible to price Y+ at 50% more than Y, J at 100% more, F at 200% more. Unfortunately they price it more like 100, 200 and 400% more respectively!

 

[wandering_fred]

The Y fare classes that do not earn anything should not be compared with PEY/Y+ fares. Compare those with the LCC carrier fares. And Y fares that earn only 25% (or less) of the miles flown would be "problematic" as well.

So the worst comparison (on say CX) would be to compare V class with E class. There are some markets where E is good value and a lot that are not good value. But I would also suspect that the "bad" markets won't have especially good fares in V either...

YMMV as I am wandering

Fred

 

[PineappleSkip]

PE is interesting - 25 years since its introduction and we've seen the least amount of improvement in that cabin compared to other premium classes. The 'standard' 38' pitch, 8 abreast, 9 inch recline has pretty much stayed static and is still being introduced by new airlines (like SQ).

Y+ the benchmark by which other cabins are judged? J has improved, but Y has improved backward in that time.:shock:

Cheers skip