Predictions of when international flights may resume/bans lifted

[burmans]

European Union to open up

European Union To Allow Vaccinated Visitors And Those From Countries With Low Covid-19 Infection Rates

European Union has decided to let in fully vaccinated third-country nationals and those coming from safe countries.

loyaltylobby.com

Perhaps being well ahead of Australia on vaccination WILL pay off!!

 

[dajop]

Perhaps being well ahead of Australia on vaccination WILL pay off!!

Don't think you'll need to be vaccinated if coming from Australia (if you could get an exemption to leave) ...

The safe countries, which visitors could enter without vaccination, are those with 75 or less Covid-19 cased per 100,000 people in the previous 14 days.

At the height of the Victorian second wave, Australia peaked at a tad under 30 Covid-19 cases per 100,000 people in the previous 14 days.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Don't think you'll need to be vaccinated if coming from Australia (if you could get an exemption to leave) ...

Maybe not as in to be required.

But no way I would travel outside of Oz if I was not vaccinated, and more so if I was travelling on holidays and this interacting with many random people.

Hopefully once international travel is resumed being vaccinated will mean no or minimal HQ.

 

[burmans]

Don't think you'll need to be vaccinated if coming from Australia (if you could get an exemption to leave) ...



At the height of the Victorian second wave, Australia peaked at a tad under 30 Covid-19 cases per 100,000 people in the previous 14 days.

Agree but the point I was trying to make is that it is high vaccination rates that are enabling (or will enable) a return to ‘relative normality. Meanwhile in Australia!

 

[Miss bick]

So far I have cancelled one trip . But I still have 4 return trips Au -> Manila.. business class.. all booked and paid in Jan 2020. I have staff over there and usually work there every other month.

The problem I see is this : "VACCINE"... the fact is having a vaccine *EVER* is not guaranteed. In fact, it is highly likely that there will *never* be a an effective Covid19 vaccine... That is *NEVER* ! I refer to Ian Frazer (developer of the HPV vax that saved 100's of million of lives around the work, who knows a bit about vaccine development )

(click here) NEVER a successful vaccine for any coronavirus before

And in the most optimism scenario - that includes many research breakthroughs - still there will be no publicly available, tested, proven, *effective* vax till late 2021 or 2022... (if ever) .

So forget about any current plans that are contingent on "must be a vaccine". Those plans will require a re-think.

How wrong so many were....

 

[focusedbear]

Have a friend that lives in Hong Kong and she said that the government has dangled a carrot by allowing bars, restaurants, cafes etc to operate with eased capacity restrictions provided all staff and customers have had at least one jab. The restaurant she was at the other night was allowed 50% capacity and allowed to stay open until 2am. Patrons have to sign in with a government app and produce vaccine certification.
I wouldn’t be against something like that here

Even the loosening of those restrictions hasn't been much of an incentive. There are a few categories for operating hospitality venues (staff and customer all vaccinated/no customers vaccinated/etc.). Vaccination rates in HK remain low. With local cases trending down to near zero, people don't see the need.

There needs to be a better carrot. International travel would be a start.

 

[JB expat]

How wrong so many were....

Depends on definition of "successful" - keeping symptoms to a minimum and no long haul covid would probably be effective enough. The idea that it will be a vaccine like measles/polio - prob never happen.

 

[JB expat]

Even the loosening of those restrictions hasn't been much of an incentive. There are a few categories for operating hospitality venues (staff and customer all vaccinated/no customers vaccinated/etc.). Vaccination rates in HK remain low. With local cases trending down to near zero, people don't see the need.

There needs to be a better carrot. International travel would be a start.

International travel simply isn't an incentive for many, many Australians. Limits on domestic travel, bans on attending large scale events, arenas, restaurants, etc - run proof of vaccine on a government app. would go further. All of this is do-able once there is adequate supply here.

Ohio is running a $5 million lottery for people getting vaccinated. Such a lottery is "cheaper" than locked borders on international business and tourism as well as the inevitable lockdown if Aus cannot come up with a better plan.

 

[Miss bick]

International travel simply isn't an incentive for many, many Australians. Limits on domestic travel, bans on attending large scale events, arenas, restaurants, etc - run proof of vaccine on a government app. would go further. All of this is do-able once there is adequate supply here.

Ohio is running a $5 million lottery for people getting vaccinated. Such a lottery is "cheaper" than locked borders on international business and tourism as well as the inevitable lockdown if Aus cannot come up with a better plan.

Well if they have it in SA, Woohoo! I'm in the draw then

 

[Miss bick]

Depends on definition of "successful" - keeping symptoms to a minimum and no long haul covid would probably be effective enough. The idea that it will be a vaccine like measles/polio - prob never happen.

I must be a lot older than you, , I have learnt 'never say never'

 

[Miss bick]

True I guess. Although as a fit and healthy 35 year old, I wasn't overly concerned to begin with.

Maybe you should be, one of the early patients to go down fast and die in the Portland hospital my brother's A&E doc wife works in was a fit and healthy no known health issues male. And with all the varients out there, it's a bit of a shooting gallery for the virus. At least we still get good news stories, latest being treatment showing great promise developed by Qld Menzies school of health and US scientist collaboration.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

International travel simply isn't an incentive for many, many Australians. Limits on domestic travel, bans on attending large scale events, arenas, restaurants, etc - run proof of vaccine on a government app. would go further. All of this is do-able once there is adequate supply here.

Ohio is running a $5 million lottery for people getting vaccinated. Such a lottery is "cheaper" than locked borders on international business and tourism as well as the inevitable lockdown if Aus cannot come up with a better plan.

All of those things are doable, but are they legal? Can understand a country where covid is prevalent that freedoms can be introduced for those vaccinated... but I'm not sure it can work 'in reverse'?

Firstly there'd need to be a legal basis. Under the Biosecurity Act the Cth can only take steps that are absolutely necessary to protect health. Banning healthy but unvaccinated persons from events or businesses may not fit that criteria. I wonder if there is another head of power they could use to implement restriction? I dunno.

Secondly, businesses would be up in arms if all of a sudden you denied them a large chunk of revenue from healthy, but unvaccinated people. So even if states have the power to introduce this it might not prove popular. (Noting that Victoria might not be able to introduce such laws due to their Charter of Human Rights.)

 

[levelnine]

but are they legal?

Perfectly legal if implemented by the States, as has been proposed. No head of power issues and no charter of rights in Australia limits the legislative power of the States.

Strong incentives to get people to vaccinate is the way forward. We already do it with childhood vaccinations in the form of no jab, no play legislation. Simply expand it to everyone -- no jab, no play (ie no restaurants, bars, theatres, etc -- anywhere that is a COVID-19 spreading risk).

 

[DC3]

... Strong incentives to get people to vaccinate is the way forward. We already do it with childhood vaccinations in the form of no jab, no play legislation. Simply expand it to everyone -- no jab, no play (ie no restaurants, bars, theatres, etc -- anywhere that is a COVID-19 spreading risk).

Yes, but who in the Federal Government is actually listening?

 

[oznflfan]

Perfectly legal if implemented by the States, as has been proposed. No head of power issues and no charter of rights in Australia limits the legislative power of the States.

Strong incentives to get people to vaccinate is the way forward. We already do it with childhood vaccinations in the form of no jab, no play legislation. Simply expand it to everyone -- no jab, no play (ie no restaurants, bars, theatres, etc -- anywhere that is a COVID-19 spreading risk).

Strong incentives at first, then punishments or hardship

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Perfectly legal if implemented by the States, as has been proposed. No head of power issues and no charter of rights in Australia limits the legislative power of the States.

Strong incentives to get people to vaccinate is the way forward. We already do it with childhood vaccinations in the form of no jab, no play legislation. Simply expand it to everyone -- no jab, no play (ie no restaurants, bars, theatres, etc -- anywhere that is a COVID-19 spreading risk).

I wonder if it would pass the Charter in Victoria? If there's little prevalence and effective contact tracing, what would be the basis to override the Charter? For any state, hitting small businesses by blocking their ability to trade would be a sure fire way to get yourself voted out at the next election

 

[Flashback]

But daily deaths world wide doesn't look that good.Much worse than last year.
View attachment 248267

Japan not looking too flash.
View attachment 248268

USA still several hundred deaths per day.
View attachment 248269

Places like france,Italy and Spain have daily deaths still in the hundreds.
And at this stage I don't think anyone really knows what may happen if the new Indian B 1617 becomes widespread.
As I said this pandemic is far from over.
And I am one who does want the border opened.But we have to be realistic.We should certainly have to start considering vaccinated people being able to travel to places such as Singapore and the UK where at the moment deaths have dramatically decreased.
View attachment 248271

Singapore has had only 31 deaths total and only 2 this year.

Lots of the new Indian variant spread here, areas with concentrated areas of that population in the UK are having jabs moved forward and mass vaccinating is being done, right down to teenagers.

yep, the kids are tossing their toys out of the cot again

This millennial has no problem admitting to that!

Meanwhile, several major media websites are leading with the story that one person who arrived from the India into hotel quarantine has tested positive. Oh my goodness, the sky is falling. (you'll have to take my word for it, I am not going to condone such coverage by adding links).

Isn't the whole point of quarantine is that there's a high likelihood that a small number of arriving travellers may have the virus? And that pre-flight testing aims to reduce the risk rather than eliminate altogether?

Good old clickbait journalism!

That is indeed the point. On an upcoming trip in total I'll be doing around 2-4 weeks of quarantine/self-isolation of some degree on either side and during.

On the 'towing the company line', at least if there is an outbreak I won't die.

Well, you'll have a reduced chance of dieing.

Your "Cheer, cheer the...Time to open the borders party" tune will need some work.

And some nominations if I may:
- @jb747 as Minister for HR and business employment.
- @Cruiser Elite as Minister for Foreign Affairs and Champagne. Potentially in a tight preselection battle with @PineappleSkip
- @Princess Fiona as Minister for Health and Platinum Services
- @Mattg as Minister for Priority Boarding
- @Melburnian1 as Minister for Statistics and ontime departures
- @RooFlyer as Minister for Small Pacific Islands
- @Pushka as Minister for Taste
- @Dr Ralph as Minister for Finance, credit cards and scam awareness.

and

- @JohnM as Minister for the Aged and Women. Sorry John.

@Flashback as Foreign Minister?

Canada are doing something similar with people leaving the country for this US, to get vaccinated, don't have to do HQ on return...

It should be noted though, if you cross the Canadian border by land and sea you also don't have to HQ regardless of where you came from...... weird omission.

 

[hb13]

All of those things are doable, but are they legal? Can understand a country where covid is prevalent that freedoms can be introduced for those vaccinated... but I'm not sure it can work 'in reverse'?

Firstly there'd need to be a legal basis.

The idea that it can only be done by government if it is legal is not true because they would find a way to make it "legal" and make it up if they have to. They have shown they are pretty much above the law and no one can do a thing about it.

 

[dajop]

The idea that it can only be done by government if it is legal is not true because they would find a way to make it "legal" and make it up if they have to. They have shown they are pretty much above the law and no one can do a thing about it.

But don’t we appoint governments to make the laws? People can do things about it at the ballot box and in the courts if there is a genuinely disproportionate response (although disproportionate seems quite difficult to prove).

Interestingly in Victoria the government copped a lot of flack for continuing to extend the State of Emergency - but each time they had to negotiate with the upper house so it was a very public process. In most other states they just quietly extend the SOE , except NSW who have other laws that codify powers to deal with the pandemic without having to resort to SOE.

But I find it fascinating that the one government that has faced the most criticism in the media is the one that has to follow a vaguely democratic process rather than just saying it is so.

 

[SydneySwan]

@Flashback as Foreign Minister?

But you need to be based here to do that. How about High Commissioner to the UK?