Predictions of when international flights may resume/bans lifted

[ethernet]

Nine years ago, my understanding is this: If you collected a foreign passport from an Embassy in Australia, they would tattle dob you in. If you waited and collected it in Germany or Switzerland/Austria , their local privacy policy would rule - you would not, generally be reported. When you fly to the US, I believe job/residence and income details are sent, as for Europeans, but reciprocal data on US citizens is NOT sent. So said, few people can afford to retain privacy. However If you have stacks of money, you can buy a passport/residence in lesser countries. Caymans and HK hold heaps of untaxed, dark money. Meanwhile several US states have allowed 'Trusts' with no limits, and secrecy, meaning hiding money in plain sight is acceptable. The ATO never asks trustees if they received the full distributions, so Australia is also a good place to park dirty money if under a complex trust (1 in 7 Australians have a trust?). In a post covid world, I think privacy with passports is dead, and zero if you carry a smartphone. BTW I hear a lot of Australian owned OS beachside properties under sham non-resident holdings, are being sold by untrustworthy OS intermediaries' as the real owners they can't get out of Australia. Bad because Bali properties are 1/2 price.

 

[jakeseven7]

Australia does ask for them to be linked if they become aware of them. But it's not mandatory. I don't know the extent to which the linking tracks or transmits travel on the other passport.

They don’t ask you for them to be linked. They just are. And yes they know where the other passport has been used. It’s like having one passport. I’m not going to divulge publicly my second passport country of origin but suffice to say it’s a very ‘common’ one in Australia...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

They don’t ask you for them to be linked. They just are. And yes they know where the other passport has been used. It’s like having one passport. I’m not going to divulge publicly my second passport country of origin but suffice to say it’s a very ‘common’ one in Australia...

From my experience the 'linking' was done by Border Force at the departure airport in Australia. Check-in phoned them and they did whatever they had to do. However, it only came up because I had a visa in the other passport, and check-in wanted to see the visa. Once they became aware of the other passport they had top make the call to link.

Prior to that however I'd always traveled to the visa country via a third country, swapping passports after departure. The passports weren't linked at any time, and I don't even think Australia would know I had another passport.

I would hope, too, that my other country has sufficient data protection laws in place (EU) for there to be no sharing.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

If you left Australia and used a second passport to arrive, then Australia might already suspect you have a second passport

If you left Australia and used the Australian passport to arrive at a transit country, then the transit country usually will need to see the passport you entered with. If this information is passed on to Australia and you didn’t return home in a day or so, then Australia might already suspect you have a second passport.

If the transit country was the EU, then there would be a fair assumption of being in the worst case scenario (weakest link theory).

As I inferred when I raised the 2nd passport issue, it would depend on whether Australia could be bothered. In a public health situation, there might be an interest for Australia to find out. Where there is missing dates/data you might be queried on the possibility of a 2nd passport on arrival in Australia as part of a public health / quarantine determination. If Australia could be bothered....

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

its a bit off topic but whats with the cloak and dagger? if you have two passports which one should you use? I would imagine for EG if someone had Au passport and UK passport you would want to use both "quick lines" ie. UK when you arrive in uk and Aus when you arrive in Aus or is this a no no ?

 

[andye]

My understanding was that if you own an Australian passport you must enter and leave on it.
I have frequently used my UK passport to travel round Europe after leaving though that may not be so useful post Brexit
(I'm clueless on the linkage issue)

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

its a bit off topic but whats with the cloak and dagger? if you have two passports which one should you use? I would imagine for EG if someone had Au passport and UK passport you would want to use both "quick lines" ie. UK when you arrive in uk and Aus when you arrive in Aus or is this a no no ?

I don’t think there is an issue in a non-covid world.

The cloak and dagger is for people trying to either avoid ‘penalties’ if the ban was lifted for part of the world and a traveller decided to travel to a higher risk park of the world or wanted to avoid quarantine because they visited a riskier part of the world (presumably while vaccinated). In essence game-playing with covid rules.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

its a bit off topic but whats with the cloak and dagger? if you have two passports which one should you use? I would imagine for EG if someone had Au passport and UK passport you would want to use both "quick lines" ie. UK when you arrive in uk and Aus when you arrive in Aus or is this a no no ?

That's exactly how it should work! Australia requires you to use your Aussie passport on arrival and departure from Australia.

The discussion is around the potential for Australia to have travel bubbles... so for example they might 'allow' people to go to Singapore, Taiwan and Vietnam. The issue then becomes how do they prevent onwards travel from there to any other country? And would they even know?

The 'travel bubble' thing is possibly a bit fanciful, because for some, once you're out of the country, you'd be 'free' to go anywhere else.

 

[mviy]

You might be free to go elsewhere but you could struggle to get back due to limited hotel quarantine places or need to spend a few weeks in a low risk country and test negative before coming home.

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

This is a channel i watch for the legal content, very interesting take on Trudeau's reversal on enforced hotel quarantine.

Post automatically merged: Feb 7, 2021

I do wish we had a bill of rights >.<

 

[dajop]

I do wish we had a bill of rights >.<

Look at about 30 secs in, so it's better to be locked up in curfews and locked downs for a year (that is mentioned at about 00:30)?

A right to kill your own and other peoples parents, grandparents or great grandparents? A right to not to be a spectator at sporting events? A right to not be able to dine out?

I speak to people all over the world, as part of my job, in fact I've spoken to people in every continent this week. The basic feeling is we're all living blessed lives in this part of the world. Hotel Quarantine, I am sure, is a big part of that.

 

[drron]

I do wish we had a bill of rights >.<

Victoria has a Charter of Human rights and Responsibilities.
It was completely ignored.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Victoria has a Charter of Human rights and Responsibilities.
It was completely ignored.

I thought there was some debate about that? For example it was supposedly the Charter that said people have to have one hour's exercise per day during the first round of hotel quarantine. (Obviously not such a great idea in hindsight!)

But yes, the emergency powers invoked by the government do allow them to suspend any other piece of legislation... so aspects of the Charter, like the 'right to exercise' were able to be curtailed.

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

Look at about 30 secs in, so it's better to be locked up in curfews and locked downs for a year (that is mentioned at about 00:30)?

A right to kill your own and other peoples parents, grandparents or great grandparents? A right to not to be a spectator at sporting events? A right to not be able to dine out?

I speak to people all over the world, as part of my job, in fact I've spoken to people in every continent this week. The basic feeling is we're all living blessed lives in this part of the world. Hotel Quarantine, I am sure, is a big part of that.

you are just removing all personal responsibility, its either lock down perth 2 million people for zero cases (cancer screenings / a good amount of surgeries missed) or ... if you are not for that ... you want to murder people, sounds like a pretty rational position ... or not. Why not provide people the information and let them choose for themselves? If you are high risk and worry about the coof stay indoors, wear a mask, get your food delivered with zero contact. all can be done.

the OBEY or MURDER coin flip is a fallacy

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Why not provide people the information and let them choose for themselves? If you are high risk and worry about the coof stay indoors, wear a mask, get your food delivered with zero contact. all can be done.

Giving people the information and letting them choose doesn't work! We've seen that in the USA, Europe and UK. People will go out, ignore advice, and pretty soon the health system is overwhelmed

'Shielding' the vulnerable... well that leads to a two-tiered system where the healthy get to live life as normal but the vulnerable lead a pretty miserable life. Personally I don't like that notion... I think everyone should have the same restrictions, and then enjoy the same freedoms.

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

Giving people the information and letting them choose doesn't work! We've seen that in the USA, Europe and UK. People will go out, ignore advice, and pretty soon the health system is overwhelmed

'Shielding' the vulnerable... well that leads to a two-tiered system where the healthy get to live life as normal but the vulnerable lead a pretty miserable life. Personally I don't like that notion... I think everyone should have the same restrictions, and then enjoy the same freedoms.

so you wont be travelling after getting a vaccine until everyone in the other tier system of africa / south america is vaccinated too?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

so you wont be travelling after getting a vaccine until everyone in the other tier system of africa / south america is vaccinated too?

I'm only talking about the Australian context. Once everyone is vaccinated here, and we have decided the level of risk we will accept, most people should be able to enjoy the same freedoms.

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

I'm only talking about the Australian context. Once everyone is vaccinated here, and we have decided the level of risk we will accept, most people should be able to enjoy the same freedoms.

ahhh when you said everyone i took it to mean your morals extended beyond the island

 

[clifford]

Why not provide people the information and let them choose for themselves? If you are high risk and worry about the coof stay indoors, wear a mask, get your food delivered with zero contact. all can be done.

We in Australia provide the information for people to choose. If you don't like the rules here you (I imagine) are quite free to leave and enjoy your freedom in Boris' land, or elsewhere.

And if you think I am anti-Pom, I do have a (joint) UK passport. And FWIW, my mother was killed by Covid in the UK.

So, it's your choice...

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

We in Australia provide the information for people to choose. If you don't like the rules here you (I imagine) are quite free to leave and enjoy your freedom in Boris' land, or elsewhere.

And if you think I am anti-Pom, I do have a (joint) UK passport. And FWIW, my mother was killed by Covid in the UK.

So, it's your choice...

you are about 10th in the like it or bugger off joke field there bud.

let me fix it for you "We in Australia provide the information for people to choose then the government tells them which choice they have to pick"

sorted.