Paying premium for flights out of Australia?

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Jleno

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Having lived overseas for many years and about to move back next year, I can't help but wonder if Australia has now become one of the world's most (unjustifiably) expensive places to live. One aspect of this is in airfares.

For example one of the routes I commonly take is either MEL/SYD/BNE to SIN (return). For as long as I can remember, it always seemed to be about 50% more expensive for one to fly MEL/SYD/BNE to SIN return that it is to fly SIN to MEL/SYD/BNE return. I wonder what it is - are taxes different for income and outgoing flights?

It is also much more likely for one to find a special fare flying out of SIN to Oz then it is the other way round. I've now taken to booking a one way out of Oz and then booking 12 month returns out of Singapore (and each time having to book another return out of Singapore to ensure I am guaranteed on a flight back to Oz to make I can get back to work on time). I figured that even with the higher cost for a 12 month ticket, and the inevitable date change required once I worked out when I actually want to fly, it will still be cheaper than booking a return flight out of Oz.

Wonder if anyone could explain why fares out of Oz seem to carry a premium with it.
 
I assume because to take one example Australians are far more eager to go to say Prague than the average Czech is desperate to fly to Australia?
 
The cost of living in Oz has not increased more than the rest of the world - significantly at least.

One thing to remember and I constantly remind my UK colleagues about this especially is the movement in exchange rate. For example it is about GBP4000 to fly to Oz and about $9000 to fly from Oz to the UK. So at the moment with the exchange rate at about 0.6 the UK-Oz return flight is around $6700 - much cheaper than the Oz-UK return. However roll back the clock to 2000 and that same GBP4000 would be $11,500 - quite a dramatic movement.
 
In 2009 I brought a ticket ex HKG to London and back for $899.00, redeemed points to get too and from Hong Kong.

In 2010 I purchased a SIN-MEL-BNE flight about 20% cheaper than purchasing it in Australia.

In 2011 I purchased a PE fare LHR-SIN-BNE-SIN-LHR for $3186.00 when a similar fare ex Brisbane was $5,100.00

Australia at the moment is an expensive place for almost everything, including beer. :rolleyes:
 
The cost of living in Oz has not increased more than the rest of the world - significantly at least.

One thing to remember and I constantly remind my UK colleagues about this especially is the movement in exchange rate. For example it is about GBP4000 to fly to Oz and about $9000 to fly from Oz to the UK. So at the moment with the exchange rate at about 0.6 the UK-Oz return flight is around $6700 - much cheaper than the Oz-UK return. However roll back the clock to 2000 and that same GBP4000 would be $11,500 - quite a dramatic movement.

I respectfully disagree however, and this article seems to back this up (it's www.cnbc.com/id/44014355/Australia_s_Cost_of_Living_a_Brewing_Political_Storm).

All of my friends in Australia (granted this may not be representative) say that the average supermarket shopping bill has definitely increased significantly, and they all agree that most of the consumer good they look at are almost always more expensive than the US, the UK (surprisingly), and of course Asia. Of course, one can easily point out countries where goods are significantly more expensive than the Australia as well. With the significant strengthening of the Aussie dollar over the past couple of years, they had hoped that the cheaper import prices would result in gains passed onto consumers, but this has not really been the case.

My general conclusion is that the average salaries in the cities have also grown so consumers have helped support these high prices. While Australia has survived the GFC reasonably well, some commentators have said that, among other things, the property bubble is due to burst, and if that happens, it will be interesting to see how the Australian economy fares with it.

But then again, I'm not an economist.
 
Things have definitely gone up in price, sometimes it amazes me how little is in the shopping trolley for $70-80 but then it also depends what you buy and how you shop, other times its a decent amount and if your value conscious you can still get a decent amount...

But apart from all that, increases in rent and land prices and all the rest, there are still not too many other countries around the world i would consider living in... And for all the cheap prices in the US and Europe, plenty of those economies are either in the doldrums or teetering on teh brink of going from bad to really worse... So have to appreciate what you got sometimes...
 
I respectfully disagree however, and this article seems to back this up (can't post link, so it's w w w dot cnbc dot com /id/44014355/Australia_s_Cost_of_Living_a_Brewing_Political_Storm.

All of my friends in Australia (granted this may not be representative) say that the average supermarket shopping bill has definitely increased significantly, and they all agree that most of the consumer good they look at are almost always more expensive than the US, the UK (surprisingly), and of course Asia. Of course, one can easily point out countries where goods are significantly more expensive than the Australia as well. With the significant strengthening of the Aussie dollar over the past couple of years, they had hoped that the cheaper import prices would result in gains passed onto consumers, but this has not really been the case.

My general conclusion is that the average salaries in the cities have also grown so consumers have helped support these high prices. While Australia has survived the GFC reasonably well, some commentators have said that, among other things, the property bubble is due to burst, and if that happens, it will be interesting to see how the Australian economy fares with it.

But then again, I'm not an economist.

I was once an economist but that was a lifetime ago. The problem is comparing things at a point in time. When I visited Oz from the UK in 1999 I was amazed at how everything was so cheap. This was due mostly due to exchange rates. I then moved here and found many things much more expensive than I expected (german cars being a very big one).

Also salaries were a lot lower than comparative salaries in the UK. However I now earn more than my UK boss but again due to exchange rates (when I started here I wasn't earning more than them and I havent had a massive pay increase).

A lot of it is relative and at a point in time. I do agree though that savings due to stronger A$ have NOT been passed on to consumers - although I do note that Tumi prices have come down a lot.
 
Having lived overseas for many years and about to move back next year, I can't help but wonder if Australia has now become one of the world's most (unjustifiably) expensive places to live. One aspect of this is in airfares.

For example one of the routes I commonly take is either MEL/SYD/BNE to SIN (return). For as long as I can remember, it always seemed to be about 50% more expensive for one to fly MEL/SYD/BNE to SIN return that it is to fly SIN to MEL/SYD/BNE return. I wonder what it is - are taxes different for income and outgoing flights?

Have you got some examples? I've been flying SYD/MEL/BNE-SIN and vv once or twice a month for the past 2.5 years, and I find the fares roughly equivalent either way (QF is a bit cheaper ex-SIN than ex-AUS). The biggest change in pricing over that period has been the large appreciation in the AUD against the USD (and since the SGD is effectively tied to the USD, against the SGD as well). That has made the ex-AUS prices 20-30% higher than ex-SIN prices. But when the currencies were level pegging, the prices were the same.
 
The cost of living in Oz has not increased more than the rest of the world - significantly at least.

One thing to remember and I constantly remind my UK colleagues about this especially is the movement in exchange rate. For example it is about GBP4000 to fly to Oz and about $9000 to fly from Oz to the UK. So at the moment with the exchange rate at about 0.6 the UK-Oz return flight is around $6700 - much cheaper than the Oz-UK return. However roll back the clock to 2000 and that same GBP4000 would be $11,500 - quite a dramatic movement.

You're assuming the fare in 2000 was £4000.......

Things have definitely gone up in price, sometimes it amazes me how little is in the shopping trolley for $70-80 but then it also depends .

Im amazed at how little is in a basket, let alone a trolley....
 
Having lived overseas for many years and about to move back next year, I can't help but wonder if Australia has now become one of the world's most (unjustifiably) expensive places to live. One aspect of this is in airfares.

For example one of the routes I commonly take is either MEL/SYD/BNE to SIN (return). For as long as I can remember, it always seemed to be about 50% more expensive for one to fly MEL/SYD/BNE to SIN return that it is to fly SIN to MEL/SYD/BNE return. I wonder what it is - are taxes different for income and outgoing flights?

It is also much more likely for one to find a special fare flying out of SIN to Oz then it is the other way round. I've now taken to booking a one way out of Oz and then booking 12 month returns out of Singapore (and each time having to book another return out of Singapore to ensure I am guaranteed on a flight back to Oz to make I can get back to work on time). I figured that even with the higher cost for a 12 month ticket, and the inevitable date change required once I worked out when I actually want to fly, it will still be cheaper than booking a return flight out of Oz.

Wonder if anyone could explain why fares out of Oz seem to carry a premium with it.

Not sure this is true.

We've booked BA with a couple of QF code shares.....(J)BNE-SYD on QF....(F)SYD-LHR....(J)LHR-MAD...(J)CDG-LHR....(F)LHR-BKK....(F)BKK-SYD....(J)SYD-BNE on QF....all for $8,900 for adults & $6,900 for the kids.

No way thats 50% more than coming the other way.
 
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Airfares, accommodation, eating out and any fast food places, drink prices, taxis are all expensive in Australia.

And it would appear that most of these things increase yearly while most salaries have not moved.
 
Have you got some examples? I've been flying SYD/MEL/BNE-SIN and vv once or twice a month for the past 2.5 years, and I find the fares roughly equivalent either way (QF is a bit cheaper ex-SIN than ex-AUS). The biggest change in pricing over that period has been the large appreciation in the AUD against the USD (and since the SGD is effectively tied to the USD, against the SGD as well). That has made the ex-AUS prices 20-30% higher than ex-SIN prices. But when the currencies were level pegging, the prices were the same.

I'm not suffficiently versed in basic economics to understand why an appreciating currency should automatically result in higher airfare prices - ie why is that a penalty for Australian consumers? The price a flight from SIN to SYD costs for a carrier should be very similar to the cost of its return leg. Even if there are valid reasons for differences in prices of each leg, I don't see how an appreciating or depreciating currency should be a large determinant of it.

In terms of examples, I must admit my first post was based on my searches between SIN and SYD/MEL/BNE. Being curious about whether this applies elsewhere, I just did a search of a LHR-SYD return flight, comparing a Feb 13 outbound and a Feb 27 return, firstly a LHR to SYD return, then by reversing the destinations so it's an SYD to LHR return on the exact same dates. I searched both SQ and QF and this was the result:

1. SQ. LHR to SYD return = GBP 1,030 (which is roughly equiv to AUD 1,574)

2. SQ. SYD to LHR return = AUD 2,074 (which is actually the current advertised "Super Deal").

3. QF. LHR to SYD return - GBP 1,025 (which is roughly equiv to AUD 1,566)

4. QF. SYD to LHR return - AUD 1,781.

As for examples of the SIN to Aus flights, it just seems that there are more specials from SIN - Aus than there are the other way round. And I've done a similar search to the above on all carriers flying the SIN - AUS route and in each case, it is more expensive for a return flight originating in Aus. For example, Emirates currently have a special for SIN - BNE for SGD 651 (which is about AUD 500). I know Emirates have had specials at these prices before. But I don't ever recall any airline with any specials for an AUD 500 (or an SGD 651 equivalent AUD price) BNE - SIN return (and not even close to that price).
 
In recent times, the premium paid for booking ex Oz is not as much as it used to be.

Three years ago it was rare to get an Oz-SIN return for under AU$1000 but SIN-Oz returns were readily available for under AU$600.

With increased competition and the availability of one-way fare discount pricing, fares to SIN out of Australia have come down significantly.

Earlier this year I regularly booked ex AKL returns to MEL for under AUD300 while the other way ex Oz was generally over AUD350. With recent sales the cost seems to have evened out.

Similar with transpacific ex USA fares compared with ex Oz.
 
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1. SQ. LHR to SYD return = GBP 1,030 (which is roughly equiv to AUD 1,574)
2. SQ. SYD to LHR return = AUD 2,074 (which is actually the current advertised "Super Deal").
3. QF. LHR to SYD return - GBP 1,025 (which is roughly equiv to AUD 1,566)
4. QF. SYD to LHR return - AUD 1,781.
.

More interesting that SQ thinks it can get a $300 premium on QF in Y !! (and thats on a super deal).
No wonder Scoot will be 40% cheaper
 
Hi I Fly Melbourne London all the time on Qantas and Now book my flights from the UK as they are considerabley cheaper especially first class which between AUSD 18 and 22K here but can buy fully flexable from UK for as little as AUSD 11K which is generally cheaper than Business class Melb - London return. I have on occasions been able to get London Melb return for under AUSD 5k in first class. The explanation given by Qantas is that it is a different cost structure in UK. My arguement is same plane same crew same route just different directions. I am then told that their is far more competition from the uk.

Thus ultimately because we are perceived to be rich and dont have the same numbers UK and Europe we can Subsidise Qantas eurpoean customers. So if we want better fares then we should support competitiors are as I do book reverse.

Cheers
 
Thats the nub of it Ansett. In this day and age you can't hide asymmetric pricing anymore and the solution you have arrived at will ensure that this practice will be gone eventually. All the consumer can do is really expedite the proccess by booking with airlines that don't have this practice.
 
One example a couple of years ago which clearly stands out in my mind.

I purchased a return from SIN-SYD departing in June and returning on Dec 26 (Boxing Day) via MEL on QF10. That airfare cost me <$900 with the second leg costing ~$450.

To get the same flight out of Australia SYD-SIN return via MEL on QF10 departing Boxing Day the cost of that flight was ~$650+.

So I sat in economy on that flight and most people around me would have paid at least $200 more for the privilege of departing Boxing Day.
 
The other thing to consider (especially with QF) is the fare class being offered ex Aus and ex SE Asia.

Typically ex Aus it will be Q or N class whereas ex SE Asia it will be V class. Yes I understand in QFF it doesn't matter. Well crediting to partners it likely does. And if for some reason you need to re-schedule / re-book, the higher fare class will facilitate.

Along the same lines, I am now booking the SIN-PER flights with BA. Same plane, but because of the transATL joint venture, BA codes now credit with the exSE Asia fare classes at 100% to AA - rather than the 50% that QF provides.

Happy wandering - just remember to stay up with the rule changes.

Fred
 
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