Pax kicked off Air NZ flight for ignoring safety briefing

[Quickstatus]

Able bodied and of sound mind.

Minimum IQ85? How to measure easily?
No disabilities or impediments
All senses intact
Able to lift 20kg above your head

One could reasonably surmise that the above would fit the description of the common airline passenger

IQ85: someone that can negotiate the transaction of an airline booking and security at airport
No disabilities or impediments - easily discovered
All senses intact - again easily detected
Able to lift 20kg over head. Well most passengers will have such weight in their carry on in the overhead compartment

 

[p--and--t]

It was, perhaps, a better hand grenade than I expected.

From my point of view, this is the only thing I really want..
Thirdly, and the most important point....it is about the ability to make a rational decision, with minimal information, whilst under a lot of stress.

But, how do you select for that?

Indeed. That is why my previous comment said that other than some basic checks "on the day" any other exercise is futile and I dispute that selecting people upon profession would see a better outcome than the checks that are in place today. There are thousands of examples of intelligent educated people you would normally trust (including aviation professions trained to make decisions in emergencies) can make mistakes ........

An Experienced Pilot Makes a Bad Call

 

[Moody]

Before I started helping out at my childrens’ infants school, I had to undertake a mandatory police check to make sure I was not a known risk. Nothing too deep or complicated, but a check nevertheless. The safety briefings for exit rows should definitely be on a par when it comes to both assessing the ability of the pax to physically perform the task AND their engagement with crew during the briefing and demeanour when asked if they are ok with it all. I would go so far as to say they should ask a question about it if the crew have any doubts about anyone. E.g. - “What should you do before opening the exit?”

Of course this doesn’t mean automatic ejection from the flight - just a swap with another pax is all that is needed.

This is far too serious to mess about with ...

 

[GSP]

How many doors are we talking to open here in a "standard" if there is such a term emergency situation? 1 or 2. But on a 737 (full) 12 people get briefed, surely they all aren't opening the door or is they backup?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

That’s right. Everyone sitting by the exit gets the briefing in case they need to open the door or otherwise assist. (And people could be incapacitated, or swap seats, or have moved).

 

[suze2000]

I would go so far as to say they should ask a question about it if the crew have any doubts about anyone. E.g. - “What should you do before opening the exit?”

I actually HAVE had an FA ask followup questions on a safety briefing, including "are you able to lift that door?" and once I asked her to reiterate the opening procedure as it was a door type I had not seen before.
Anyway, it is not automatic that the person sitting at the window seat will end up opening the thing (though most likely), but the pax sitting next to them should also be aware enough of the procedure to ensure that if they are about to do something stupid (like open the door on a fire), they will shout at them to stop, or take over if they are injured in the "landing" or whatever.

 

[Lynda2475]

The airlines can put in some rudimentary checks (regardless of making a privileged payment) to show you are physically able to carry out the tasks, not incapacitated by alcohol or others, and mentally capable of reading understanding and following the instruction card.

I always thought this is why when seated in an exit row on international flight it doesnt let you self check-in at airport for bag drop etc and requires a visit to the counter to be given your boarding pass - so they can give you the quick once over.

 

[Lynda2475]

I actually HAVE had an FA ask followup questions on a safety briefing

I've found this to be quite common on US domestic flights. Once Id taken a cursory look at the safety card, and then the FA ask what do you do with the door after you have removed it, I was about to say throw it outside, but my sister interrupted with the correct answer for that aircraft which was place it across the seats - I've read things more closely ever since.

 

[Quickstatus]

I've found this to be quite common on US domestic flights. Once Id taken a cursory look at the safety card, and then the FA ask what do you do with the door after you have removed it, I was about to say throw it outside, but my sister interrupted with the correct answer for that aircraft which was place it across the seats - I've read things more closely ever since.

Depends on the aircraft
On the JQ A320 the exit is thrown outside. It’s not even called the exit door or hatch, just the “Exit”.

 

[jb747]

Depends on the aircraft
On the JQ A320 the exit is thrown outside. It’s not even called the exit door or hatch, just the “Exit”.

767, which is not all that relevant in Oz any more, was a toss out the door job. In EPs training, some used to get a bit carried away with that. They were quite heavy.....

I think the current 737s have it hinged on top, so it opens out and up. One for AV I guess...

 

[Quickstatus]

767, which is not all that relevant in Oz any more, was a toss out the door job. In EPs training, some used to get a bit carried away with that. They were quite heavy.....

I think the current 737s have it hinged on top, so it opens out and up. One for AV I guess...

Yes pull the top lever and it hinges out and up

And the Crash 8 is also a toss out the door job for the Right side exit. The 1L is the normal door so requires a different routine which may including a water landing baffle.

The Saabs are also a TOTD for the emergency exits.

 

[harvyk]

In my mind, these seats simply should not be sold.

Agreed, especially as they are often sold as extra leg room with a little asterisks.

Take a 20kg suitcase, lift it and easily throw it out a window. Can you?

Yes I can, whilst I'm large in frame, I'm also pretty strong.

How many doors are we talking to open here in a "standard" if there is such a term emergency situation? 1 or 2. But on a 737 (full) 12 people get briefed, surely they all aren't opening the door or is they backup?

I've always thought all 12 got the briefing in case one or more where injured in the event of an accident and / or one or more froze during a critical moment, others in the row could either take over / remind the person what to do.

Personally I've lost count of the number of times I've sat in the exit row. It's probably to the point that I could give the briefing (at least on QF). I would hope that "in the unlikely event of..." that I would remember what to do, and that I would be capable of doing so, but the reality is until I'm placed in that position I really couldn't say.

 

[p--and--t]

Personally I've lost count of the number of times I've sat in the exit row. It's probably to the point that I could give the briefing (at least on QF). I would hope that "in the unlikely event of..." that I would remember what to do, and that I would be capable of doing so, but the reality is until I'm placed in that position I really couldn't say.

An honest comment that is the nub of the discussion for anyone confronted with a stressful situation they are not familiar with or not in the right frame of mind on that day at that time to deal with it.

 

[Franky]

I'm curious as to why you think someone who is fat would be unable to fulfil the duties required to sit in the exit row? Are you suggesting his mind was impaired because he's fat? You can't possibly think a grown man would be too weak to operate the exit door?

Perhaps he was so obese that he may not have been able to either assist someone else, or squeeze out of the hatch, or both.

 

[33kft]

I dare say that the staff of an airline offering those seats to someone based on a quick physical once over is always going to be a more effective analysis than giving them to those who decided to splash out on extra legroom seats for their holiday flight, but then again the push to remove humans from the process might have made selling exit seats a win win for airlines.

As with anything else in the airline industry, it's going to cost a few lives before there's any change to the policy, and if those lives aren't lost then all the better, there never was a problem. It's the Ford Pinto model of risk/cost analysis.

 

[AviatorInsight]

I think the current 737s have it hinged on top, so it opens out and up. One for AV I guess...

They do. It makes it so easy during EPs, now all I have to do is remember the commands. Which in a real accident will sound nothing like what is in the book.

 

[LAH]

There are MANY more types of people around who could "reasonably be of help". In any case I'd be quite happy to pay for an exit row seat KNOWING that I would be checked out some time between check in and departure to confirm suitability. Paying for, and being required to be suitability assessed for such seating seems like a reasonable answer.
And just BTW....The WORST placement of an eminently unsuitable person in an Exit Row I've ever seen (a morbidly obese gentleman on a LAX-SYD flight) was done BY THE QF Flight attendants. I should know... I got booted out of that row because "he couldn't fit in his seat" So lets not point the finger only at passengers please...
(I was a very new traveller back then... my reaction to such a thing NOW would be rather different)

yes, happened to me on a lax-mel flight. I got booted out for a passenger who had his foot in a moon boot!!! Again, along time ago, and yes, my reaction would be different now too!

 

[LAH]

yes, happened to me on a lax-mel flight. I got booted out for a passenger who had his foot in a moon boot!!! Again, along time ago, and yes, my reaction would be different now too!

oops, meant orthopedic!!! sorry!

 

[Beano]

We should remember that this was the safety briefing for those in exit rows given personally by a crew member. It is also very short. Whilst I may not appreciate or listen to the inflight movie, sorry, the main Air NZ briefing, I am always attentive of the exit reow briefing. (Lots of flying experience so know the main briefing by heart). Good on the Airline. But then perhaps mooving them to other seats would have been more politic.

 

[Jo145]

It does seem a little over the top on ANZ part to actually boot them off the flight. Perhaps should have moved them to the seats of the people who replaced them in the exit row,

All for them being thrown off. Given the "fingers in ears" attitude, they would probably be the types that want to get their baggage from the overhead locker during and emergency evacuation ...