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Paid RTW - Intercountry at the end of trip

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ero

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Paid RTW - Intracountry at the end of trip

Hi All,

I have been reading this forum extensively ever since I decided to do some travel this year. I can't believe the wealth of knowledge and all the tips available. Thankyou very much to all the knowledgable people and to everyone providing the tips.

I too have some questions and ask for some help..

A friend of mine is doing the following:
MEL-MAD (Land to BCN)
BCN-JFK
JFK-MEL

I am pretty sure his ticket is a OneWorld RTW.

I understand he is not making the most of what the OneWorld RTW has to offer but is the best he can do due to timing and who he must go see and do.

My question is at the end of the trip to maximise his purchase can he add on the following:
MEL-PER
PER-MEL
for some date in the future like 1/2/07 (and revise the date later)
and
MEL-SYD
SYD-MEL
for some other date in the future like 1/6/07 (and revise the date later)

I have tried the OneWorld Planner and it allows this to be done.

I question this because I was with him at the travel agent yesterday and the travel agent said no, you can only leave the place of origin once.

I have heard of a few bugs with the OneWorld Planner and not sure if what it tells me is correct.

From what I read with a OneWorld paid RTW you can leave the CONTINENT of origin only once (doesn't mention the CITY), and you can have 4 (i think) stopovers per continent, so I tend to believe the OneWorld Planner is telling me the correct thing.

I am doing a similar trip:
MEL-NRT
NRT-MAD
BCN-BOS
JFK-SYD
SYD-PER (at a later date)
PER-MEL

but mine is done as an Award booking (the Qantas award booking people were GREAT and well worth the 2500 points) and I think the rules differ a little compared to a paid booking (like what my friend is doing).

In the award booking I do believe that you can only leave the CITY of origin only once. Otherwise I would have come back to MEL then still had the MEL-PER booked for a later date.

I hope this is not too confusing and any guidence would be great...We are going to visit his travel agent tomorrow.

Thanks!
 
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serfty

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Can have up to 4 segments in Oz.

As long as:

- Only two stopovers &
- Only ONE segment between PER and MEL, SYD, BNE or CNS.

e.g. MEL-PER-BME-ADL-MEL or
MEL-PER-ADL-SYD-MEL or
MEL-PER-CBR-BNE-MEL or
MEL-PER-ADL/CBR, MEL-CNS-MEL (get a red e-deal ADL/CBR-MEL)

NB, as abovem you can't do SYD-PER & PER-MEL on the one xONEx.
 
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Kiwi Flyer

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Welcome to AFF ero :)

I assume you mean a One World Explorer RTW (referred here as an xONEx) rather than the more restrictive (and cheaper) Global Explorer RTW or other special RTWs.

You can do intra country at the end of the xONEx - subject to meeting other rules (eg trans-continental restrictions with PER). This means you can do Australia-round the world-Australia and include flights within Australia at the end. You can even transfer through the city where you started - there was a rule preventing this but it was removed last year.

You cannot do inter country at the end of the xONEx. Ie once you return to the country you started you cannot have any more international flights (with a few exceptions eg USA and Canada treated as one "country" for this purpose). This means you cannot do Australia-round the world-Australia and then do Australia-NZ-Australia.

You cannot stopover at a city more than once. So your example of having 2 round trips from MEL at the end of xONEx would not be allowed. You could have the xONEx return to SYD, CBR or ADL instead and purchase a separate ticket to get back to MEL.
 

ero

Junior Member
Joined
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Messages
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serfty said:
Can have up to 4 segments in Oz.

As long as:

- Only two stopovers &
- Only ONE segment between PER and MEL, SYD, BNE or CNS.

e.g. MEL-PER-BME-ADL-MEL or
MEL-PER-ADL-SYD-MEL or
MEL-PER-CBR-BNE-MEL or
MEL-PER-ADL/CBR, MEL-CNS-MEL (get a red e-deal ADL/CBR-MEL)

NB, as abovem you can't do SYD-PER & PER-MEL on the one xONEx.
This could be old news and never updated, but, from FT: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=338667
South West Pacific - Within Australia only one flight is permitted between Perth and Brisbane, Cairns or Sydney, or between Darwin and Melbourne or Sydney. This restriction does not apply for passengers traveling to/from Africa on the Sydney-Perth direct flights.
This sounds the restriction of PER does not include MEL.

Either I'm going to be wrong and I'm sure I'll be corrected, or I may be correct and helpful to serfty and others but it appears you can have multiple segements at the end of a xONEx from MEL-PER.

I did a test in the OneWorld Planner and it does give an error if you do SYD-PER-SYD-PER-SYS with the following:
Only one Perth, Australia (Perth) flight allowed
Doing a MEL-PER-MEL-PER-MEL doesn't show an error, but, as described by Kiwi Flyer you cannot stopover at a city more than once so it does sound like the OneWorld Planner does have bugs.


I assume you mean a One World Explorer RTW (referred here as an xONEx) rather than the more restrictive (and cheaper) Global Explorer RTW or other special RTWs.
Ahhh, now this could be a possibility.....I will have to ask the travel agent tomorrow. I am just assuming it's a OneWorld Explorer RTW.

It sounds like the Tier 1 (26000 miles) Economy is around the same price (at this time of the year at least) as a OneWorld RTW Economy, but better benefits on the OneWorld Explorer.

Will check on fare type tomorrow.
 

ero

Junior Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
29
Re: Paid RTW - Intracountry at the end of trip

Just changed title from Intercountry to Intracountry.

Thanks Kiwi Flyer.


[Edit]: hmmm....didn't seem to change the title in the index....sorry all
 

Kiwi Flyer

Senior Member
Joined
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Messages
5,453
ero said:
This sounds the restriction of PER does not include MEL.
That is old. The rules were amended (last year?) to include PER-MEL vv as a trans-continental (only one of which is allowed). PER-CBR is not yet on that list.

The one world planner is known to be buggy. It is okay for very simple itineraries but not to be relied on for detail or complex ones.
 

ero

Junior Member
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Messages
29
Kiwi Flyer said:
That is old. The rules were amended (last year?) to include PER-MEL vv as a trans-continental (only one of which is allowed). PER-CBR is not yet on that list.

The one world planner is known to be buggy. It is okay for very simple itineraries but not to be relied on for detail or complex ones.
Thanks....sorry....i really didn't mean to be questioning especially with the experience of you guys.....thought i might have been helping.

Everything above explains things much clearer for me.


Serfty mentioned the following:
e.g. MEL-PER-BME-ADL-MEL or
MEL-PER-ADL-SYD-MEL or
MEL-PER-CBR-BNE-MEL or
MEL-PER-ADL/CBR, MEL-CNS-MEL (get a red e-deal ADL/CBR-MEL)
Does this mean that after the overseas part, my friend can return to MEL and do one of the above mentioned routes at a later date?
Or, would he have to get in to SYD from JFK and could then do the PER-BME-ADL-MEL.

Basically what i'm asking is, are the following valid (using first example above):
1.
MEL-MAD (Land to BCN)
BCN-JFK-MEL-PER-BME-ADL-MEL
(This one goes back to origin city following JFK before heading off again)

2.
MEL-MAD (Land to BCN)
BCN-JFK-SYD-PER-BME-ADL-MEL

3.
MEL-MAD (Land to BCN)
BCN-JFK-SYD (Land to MEL, or red e-deal)
MEL-PER-BME-ADL-MEL


I really do apologise if I'm not getting this quite as I should.

Thanks again.
 

Mwenenzi

Established Member
Joined
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Messages
1,801
They all look OK. MEL-MAD would have to be done as MEL-LHR-MAD (no MEL-MAD flights). You will need to check if BCN-JFK exists or else its BCN-LHR/FRA/CDG/??? - JFK. Could do JFK-LAX-MEL.

A xONE4 has 20 segments (flights) and is valid for 12 months from date of first flight. In Aust you have 4 segments but only 2 stopovers. Where do you want the stopovers ? (stopover is anthing longer than 24 hrs).

Now we have you interested in a xONE4 think about the AA Plat challenge instead of the QF freq flyer programe

xONE4 can be good value if well planned, depending on what your aims are
 
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NM

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Kiwi Flyer said:
You cannot stopover at a city more than once. So your example of having 2 round trips from MEL at the end of xONEx would not be allowed. You could have the xONEx return to SYD, CBR or ADL instead and purchase a separate ticket to get back to MEL.
Are you sure about this? I have regularly had multiple stopovers in the same city, though it is not really pracitcal to do this for the additional sectors at the end of a xONEx fare since you only have two stopovers and its hard to make them both in the one city :rolleyes: .

My recent DONE4 included: BNE-xMEL-lots of places in Europe, USA, Asia-xMEL-BNE-MEL-BNE. So my two Australia stopovers are BNE and the last MEL. The other two MEL visits were both less then 24 hours (one was overnight) so transits not stopovers. This trip did include two stopovers in DFW.
 

Kiwi Flyer

Senior Member
Joined
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Messages
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NM - in your example you only have 1 stopover (>24 hours) in BNE. I don't think it contradicts what I was saying (or meant to say) about not being allowed 2 stopovers (>24 hours) in the same city.
 

ero

Junior Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
29
Mwenenzi said:
They all look OK. MEL-MAD would have to be done as MEL-LHR-MAD (no MEL-MAD flights). You will need to check if BCN-JFK exists or else its BCN-LHR/FRA/CDG/??? - JFK. Could do JFK-LAX-MEL.

A xONE4 has 20 segments (flights) and is valid for 12 months from date of first flight. In Aust you have 4 segments but only 2 stopovers. Where do you want the stopovers ? (stopover is anthing longer than 24 hrs).

Now we have you interested in a xONE4 think about the AA Plat challenge instead of the QF freq flyer programe

xONE4 can be good value if well planned, depending on what your aims are
Apologies...yes (I wasn't sure if people normally put in every destination)
MEL-MAD = MEL-LHR-MAD
BCN-JFK = BCN-LHR-JFK

Mwenenzi, you say they are all valid? Even this one:
1.
MEL-MAD (Land to BCN)
BCN-JFK-MEL-PER-BME-ADL-MEL
(This one goes back to origin city following JFK before heading off again)
The question is, is it valid even though it goes past the origin point after JFK?


I found the OneWorld Terms and Conditions, current as at 15/5/2006
http://www.oneworldalliance.com/products/details.cfm?ObjectID=21
    • You may travel around as you wish within a continent (there are no backtracking limitations as long as you do not go back to the origin point), but you have to go around the world in a continuous forward direction, crossing the Atlantic and Pacific oceans only once.
This to me sounds you can't go anywhere after getting back to the origin point.

But, looking at NM's travel of
BNE-xMEL-lots of places in Europe, USA, Asia-xMEL-BNE-MEL-BNE
sounds like the origin point is BNE, gets back to point of origin after the <24 hr MEL, and then at a later date does a MEL-BNE.
If i'm correct it sounds like the BNE after the <24 hr MEL is considered a stopover rather than the origin point. Maybe that's how I should be looking at the return from JFK to MEL, not as the origin point but as a stopover.

I'm usually not this thick....what am I missing?
 

NM

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Kiwi Flyer said:
NM - in your example you only have 1 stopover (>24 hours) in BNE. I don't think it contradicts what I was saying (or meant to say) about not being allowed 2 stopovers (>24 hours) in the same city.
Actually, I have two stopovers in my continent of origin, one in Brisbane (which I am in the middle of enjoying now) and another later in MEL.

I am still confused - are you saying "not being allowed 2 stopovers in the same city in the continent of origin" or "not being allowed 2 stopovers in the same city anywhere in the trip"?

I had two stopovers at DFW on my last trip. I have done xONEx fares with 3 stopovers in DFW or ORD and in LHR.

But for continent of origin being SWP, its not possible to have two stopovers in the same city just because you only get two and its impractical to stop in one place, then transit somewhere else and stop back in the same place. I wonder if this would work:

BNE-LAX-lots-of-places-HKG-BNE//BNE-xMEL-BNE//BNE-xMEL-BNE

Having two stopovers in BNE with two transit visits to MEL at the end. As far as I can see this would meet the rules.

This is what I see regarding Stopovers in the current STARFILE from AA:
Code:
  8N STOPOVERS                                                                  
  9N ----------                                                                 
 10N .                                                                          
 11N MAXIMUM 2                                                                  
 12N STOPOVERS PERMITTED IN THE CONTINENT OF ORIGIN.                            
 13N .                                                                          
 14N NO RESTRICTION FOR STOPOVER AT POINT OF ORIGIN.                            
 15N NO STOPOVER PERMITTED IN HONG KONG IF TRAVEL IS VIA                        
 16N HKG-FCO ON QF 3860/3861.
I see nothing about multiple stops in the same city, either in continent of origin or elsewhere in the trip.

Global Explorer is more restrictive in this regard, with rules like:
Code:
The same city pairs/sectors CANNOT BE FLOWN more than once in the same direction.
and
Code:
Itinerary may reflect travel greater than ROUND THE WORLD provided it is NOT via
the point of Origin and still terminates in the country of Origin.
and
Code:
Travel may not be via the original point of origin EXCEPT for origin Australia in conjunction
with travel to Papua New Guinea when one is a transfer without stopover.
 

NM

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ero said:
sounds like the origin point is BNE, gets back to point of origin after the <24 hr MEL, and then at a later date does a MEL-BNE.
If i'm correct it sounds like the BNE after the <24 hr MEL is considered a stopover rather than the origin point. Maybe that's how I should be looking at the return from JFK to MEL, not as the origin point but as a stopover.

I'm usually not this thick....what am I missing?
No restriction on going through point of origin on a OneWorld Explorer fare. There is a restriction when using a Global Explorer fare. Different rules for different fares.
 

ero

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Excellent....

Many thanks to everyone for their replies!

I do finally get it and understand it. I thought there was a restriction when going back to original point of departure but it really depends on the type of fare, not all fares.

The travel agent yesterday said that she didn't know the type of fare as her system just gives her the price....don't know how true that can be but it didn't matter.

My friend needed to go to ADL and SYD prior to departure anyway so incorporate this into his itenerary at the begining instead of PER at the end.
 

NM

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ero said:
The travel agent yesterday said that she didn't know the type of fare as her system just gives her the price....don't know how true that can be but it didn't matter.
The travel agent should see the fare basis used to determine the quote. Fare basis for OneWorld Explorer is xONEy where x=LL for economy Low Season, x=LH for economy High season, x=D for business class, x=A for first class. And y=number of continents (min being 4 and max being 6 for tickets purchased in Australia).

Fare basis for Global Explorer is xGLOByy where x is the same described above and yy=26, 29, 34 or 39 and represents the maximum miles that can be flown (in thousands).

There are other ATW specials that become available from time to time, but that are most unlikely to permit add-on travel beyond the return to the point of origin. These will have some other fare basis code.
 
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