OWA reward itinerary - QF responsibility when other carrier cancels a leg?

[jpp42]

If anything I'd say AA at times can be actually far worse than QF.

But doesn't AA actually answer their phone in a reasonable amount of time with reasonably competent agents? Or is this something that even competent agents don't have the authority to resolve (as we've sometimes seen with QF when you do reach a rare competent agent at say, Cape Town, who knows what they need to fix but simply isn't authorised).

 

[renatts]

For compensation purposes, only if the cancellation happens at < 14 days before departure. Generally such a cancellation would occur >2 months out (schedule firming), or < 2 days out (disruption). It's uncommon for airlines to cancel flights in that 2 days-2 months out period.

Furthermore, IATA rules stipulate that when it is a schedule change (defined as any time change or cancellation occurring > 72 hours before travel), the ticketing carrier is responsible for managing the schedule change. The operating carrier has no right to just simply take over/take control of the QF ticket.

When it is within 72 hours of travel, then a time change/cancellation that occurs within that 72 hour window is defined as a disruption. The operating carrier would have been given control of the ticket coupon at 72 hours before departure and therefore they have the ability to reissue the coupon to whatever they like.

Even in a scenario where AY might be willing to pay for the SEA-DFW/ORD, they would need to take over the affected coupon SEA-HEL and reissue that coupon to be SEA-ORD/DFW and ORD/DFW-HEL. But AY don't have control of that ticket coupon, until 72 hours before departure, so they can't.

Now you might be thinking well this is passenger unfriendly, why can't any carrier that is part of the ticket, reissue the ticket at any time? If this was allowed, tickets would be broken up quite quickly into multiple smaller tickets by the participating carriers on the ticket... and that's when it gets incredibly messy. You would start to lose things like being protected on the same ticket as a through journey amongst other issues.

For example, if you decided on the day due to a major delay you no longer want to travel, and the ticket coupon was taken over by another carrier at some point months ago, good luck getting a refund. It's almost impossible.

All good info, but I wasn't referring to compensation, I was referring to your right to choose between Reimbursement, re-routing to your final destination, or re-routing at a later date under EU261 in the event of cancellation.
Article 5 and Article 8.
The operating carrier is also supposed to provide assistance, regardless of the ticketing agent.

 

[madrooster]

All good info, but I wasn't referring to compensation, I was referring to your right to choose between Reimbursement, re-routing to your final destination, or re-routing at a later date under EU261 in the event of cancellation.
Article 5 and Article 8.
The operating carrier is also supposed to provide assistance, regardless of the ticketing agent.

In theory under EC261 reimbursement rights ie. article 5 in EC261, you could book your own SEA-ORD/DFW to connect and claim it from AY after you've flown. That's on the passenger to wear that risk of making a reimbursement claim from AY. How successful you are, is another matter. In Y it might not be a big loss if you're unsuccessful with your claim But if you were to pay for a J ticket, and not be successful with your claim, it might be a bit of a cost impost.

In terms of re-routing, the operating carrier, in this case AY, could try and re-route you, but won't have ticket coupons to reissue until 72 hours before departure. If your plans (or lack thereof) allows you to wait that long, then sure you could try this. I doubt anyone would feasibly want to gamble in that way though - it's fairly risky as AA/AS/whoever won't let the seats sit there unticketed for so long so these flights could fill right up and you'll be left with nothing.

If you prefer re-routing at a later date, well that's subject to availability of seats so you've got to find award inventory. In practice it might not be that feasible, eg. if 1-2 months from travel.

Obviously if award inventory exists on AS/AA, even if it's in Y for SEA-DFW/ORD in the example given, it is probably the most sensible answer overall, rather than trying to make a steadfast battle for J.

How steadfast someone chooses to be with regards to banging on doors to get their EC261 rights is entirely up to them. In a lot of cases, it may just not be worth the headache... only the passenger can make that judgement.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

AY is notoriously stingy with EC261! As we saw on these forums previously

Can you explain the right to reimbursement if buying your own connecting ticket? EC261 only provides for the carrier to provide alternative routing, compensation if you arrive ‘x’ number of hours after your scheduled arrival, or a full refund.

 

[serfty]

AY is notoriously stingy with EC261! As we saw on these forums previously

Yeah, while anecdotally they are "better" more so these days, they can still be unpleasant.

This FT thread may be useful:

Finnair and EC 261 compensation - FlyerTalk Forums

Finnair | Finnair Plus - Finnair and EC 261 compensation - Originally Posted by HJP Time of landing is irrelevant, arrival time to gate is the one that counts. How can you find scheduled and actual gate arrival time for a specific flight?

www.flyertalk.com

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I was more interested in the notion of buying a new flight and trying to get the cost of that flight paid. I know that’s possible, but difficult under Montreal. I thought EC261 was rerouting, refund, or compensation.

Edited to add… interesting to read from that link’s wiki that bird strikes are now considered ‘extraordinary’. Which is a shame. They should be an expected or foreseeable part of running an airline operation. Oh well.

 

[madrooster]

Can you explain the right to reimbursement if buying your own connecting ticket? EC261 only provides for the carrier to provide alternative routing, compensation if you arrive ‘x’ number of hours after your scheduled arrival, or a full refund.

If the carrier doesn't rebook you or what they book is unsuitable you can organise your own replacement transport and claim it back from them. But what's unclear is whether this applies for cancellations > 2 weeks out.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If the carrier doesn't rebook you or what they book is unsuitable you can organise your own replacement transport and claim it back from them. But what's unclear is whether this applies for cancellations > 2 weeks out.

But that’s under the montreal convention, not EU261? Even within 14 days there doesn’t seem to be any ability to make your own arrangements and claim back. You can only be offered a reroute, or reimbursement (refund) of the original fare under Article 8.