Oneworld separate ticket interline changes

[moa999]

Suspect though that BA might find people still using the trick, but now positioning on Ryan,Monarch,Easy

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I'll believe that BA is serious about stopping the "Euro trick" when the pricing is the same to USA/NA destinations no matter where you start in (what was) the EU. :shock:

While the cost of hotel might dent the price savings, you'll still save money. And have a night to relax in a bed rather than a plane.

Happy wandering

Fred

It certainly sounds like BA were a major player in lobbying OW to make through checkin on separate tickets optional, especially when they have conveniently installed software to prevent BA staff doing it.

If they think that people will just revert back to purchasing ridiculously expensive J fares ex UK again they're dreaming. Those days are long gone as people are a lot more tech savvy with doing their own bookings through various online websites from other countries so the consumer is in the box seat.

People will either abandon BA altogether if favour of LCC and fly out the day prior or stick with BA but just fly the day before ex UK to the EU before taking advantage of one of the many bargain priced J fares from various cities.

 

[ChrisCunard]

So frustrating!

I have (my first ever) F ticket booked on BA which is connecting to a QF J class flight in Singapore. Two PRN's as I booked one using points.

When I booked all was well in the interline world.

Now...

Is 2:35 mins enough time to transfer in Singapore with bag reclaim, recheck etc?

Really do hope that there are no delays out of LHR!

Any tips for insurance that will cover a missed flight on a non-linked booking?

Meanwhile... News like this is just like one of those letters from a bank or insurance company that starts off "great news" and then goes on to explain how you're getting fewer benefits...

Interestingly, none of the 4 people I've spoken to at Qantas 131211 sales has any idea the rules have changed.

 

[moa999]

Is 2:35 mins enough time to transfer in Singapore with bag reclaim, recheck etc?

Plenty in SIN

Any tips for insurance that will cover a missed flight on a non-linked booking?

None that I'm aware of.

 

[blueythecat]

Well this really is a very sad and inconvenient change to the OW rules. Having used the benefit a few times, it was one of the few reasons that had kept me booking OW (and Qantas for that matter) international flights. So very disappointed it has been enhanced away, and from my perspective it's going to result in less bookings on Qantas and OW airlines in the future.

It also makes Qantas FF points worth even less than they are now (hard to imagine I know!). In fact they could now reach a negative value per point - lets say your Qantas classic award booking to Singapore causes you to miss your onward BA flight - your points might now be valued at -8c/pt .

According to the advice I'm hearing from several TAs, they as the 'owner' of the original PNR can add flights from separate bookings to the original PNR.

Do all these TA's use Amadeus?

If not and use another GDS like Galileo and they are talking about adding information segments into their GDS pnr for flights booked externally (eg via another airline's website) then that won't be visible in Altea when the pax checks in with QF.

As above any flights added in to a QF res pnr as info segments will not be visible in the Altea checkin system so the CSA will not see your oncarriage flight.

You'd be better off just using a TA who uses Amadeus to book the whole lot.

On to the future though, I was wondering what we can do to get around this change and I notice that a number of AFF'rs have mentioned that a travel agent can add additional sectors to an existing PNR (presumably only one they have created?). Now this was certainly news to me (the things you learn), but I'm guessing it is a topic of interest to a few on here, so I was hoping someone more knowledgeable than me could help clear a few things up in my mind.

• Can any travel agent do this, or only particular ones (ie do they need to be using a particular GDS or it doesn't matter)?
• What are the restrictions to this (probably too open-ended this question, so maybe the examples below, covering a range of possible options, is better):
  • QF SYD-BKK RTN in Y booked initially, can AY BKK-HEL-CDG RTN in J be added later?
  • QF SYD-SIN RTN in Y booked initially, can SQ SIN-LHR RTN in J be added later?
  • BA SIN-LHR RTN in Y booked initially, can QF SYD-SIN RTN Classic Award in U be added later?
  • JQ SYD-HNL RTN in J booked initially, can AA HNL-LAX RTN in Y be added later?
• Are there any additional costs charged by the first carrier when the TA adds the additional sectors?

Hopefully this all makes sense, but I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't as I might have completely misunderstood the whole concept.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Now...

Is 2:35 mins enough time to transfer in Singapore with bag reclaim, recheck etc?

Really do hope that there are no delays out of LHR!

Any tips for insurance that will cover a missed flight on a non-linked booking?

Meanwhile... News like this is just like one of those letters from a bank or insurance company that starts off "great news" and then goes on to explain how you're getting fewer benefits...

Interestingly, none of the 4 people I've spoken to at Qantas 131211 sales has any idea the rules have changed.

2 hours 35 is enough time to claim bags and recheck at SIN provided (a) your flight is on time and (b) you don't hit the one or two times a day when the immigration hall is completely packed - but even then, you're maybe only looking at a 30 minute wait (the tip is not to take your time reaching the immigration hall - I'd motor along just in case).

There are insurance companies (at least two) that will cover you for missed connections. Insure4less is one, and worldnomads (IIRC) is the other. You need to check the PDS carefully, insure4less for example requires you to arrive at the connecting airport no later than when check-in is scheduled to be open for the connecting flight... ie 3 hours before departure. You 2hrs 35mins would fall under that limit. I think insure4less also has a limit of $1000 for the connecting flight.

As for QF reservations staff... they are excellent... for fares and ticketing (only). Anything else, refer to AFF! Res staff aren't up to speed on most other things.

 

[cmon0005]

Is 2:35 mins enough time to transfer in Singapore with bag reclaim, recheck etc?

If I am not mistaken, in SIN there is no need to even go through immigration, simply goto the QF transfer desk, where they will issue BP's and collect + retag your bags behind the scenes?

 

[Quickstatus]

If I am not mistaken, in SIN there is no need to even go through immigration, simply goto the QF transfer desk, where they will issue BP's and collect + retag your bags behind the scenes?

Yes that's right!. But it requires a minimum connection time of 50minutes?.
What I can't understand is how the luggage handlers can intercept your bags and retag them before it arrives at the carousel. Or do they pick them up at the carousel?

 

[cmon0005]

Yes that's right!. But it requires a minimum connection time of 50minutes?.
What I can't understand is how the luggage handlers can intercept your bags and retag them before it arrives at the carousel. Or do they pick them up at the carousel?

Don't quote me on this but if it hasn't reached the carousel the system picks them up and shoots them down a special belt for intervention, if they are already on the baggage claim carousel someone picks them up.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If I am not mistaken, in SIN there is no need to even go through immigration, simply goto the QF transfer desk, where they will issue BP's and collect + retag your bags behind the scenes?

yeah - assuming QF (and other airlines) continue to offer this service. It wouldn't be surprising if some airlines stopped this in future - not least because they will want to force pax onto single tickets and increase revenue.

 

[woodborer]

yeah - assuming QF (and other airlines) continue to offer this service. It wouldn't be surprising if some airlines stopped this in future - not least because they will want to force pax onto single tickets and increase revenue.

The whole revenue thing is strange. One of the games of the Frequent FLyer is to get onto single tickets as many segements as possible for little increase in cost. So it's really swings and roundabouts on that front. The real advantage to airlines with this change is the automation of rebookings that it allows during schedule changes, IRROPS recovery and so on.On a single ticket, they'll work on an alternative. On separate tickets - too bad, so sad.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The whole revenue thing is strange. One of the games of the Frequent FLyer is to get onto single tickets as many segements as possible for little increase in cost. So it's really swings and roundabouts on that front. The real advantage to airlines with this change is the automation of rebookings that it allows during schedule changes, IRROPS recovery and so on.On a single ticket, they'll work on an alternative. On separate tickets - too bad, so sad.

By 'frequent flyer' you mean those on AFF/FT/other-bulletin-boards? Many others probably don't go to the length of maximising segments on a point-to-point ticket (RTWs may be different as you might have multiple places to go). Most would probably fly non-stop where possible. Golden handcuffs may force connections (via SYD for example in QF), but how many frequent flyers would route MEL-SYD-HKG and add three hours onto their journey when non-stop will do?

As for the transfer services at Singapore - appreciate it is a great benefit ATM - but not sure where this is published? The SIN airport website doesn't seem to mention it - so possibility it could be withdrawn?: In Transit, Hotel, City Tour - Singapore Changi Airport

Edit: the changi FAQ alludes to bags being transferred to you... (my emphasis bold and underline)

Q:	What should I do if I have a connecting flight at Changi Airport?

If you are connecting from a full service carrier flight to another: If you have your boarding pass (with a seat allocation) for your connecting flight, you may proceed directly to the gate for your connecting flight. If you do not have a boarding pass for your connecting flight, you should proceed to the nearest Transfer counter in the terminal of your connecting flight. You will then be issued with a boarding pass and arrangements will be made for the transfer of your baggage to your connecting flight. If you are connecting to or from a budget airline flight: As most budget airlines do not have transfer counters in the Departure Transit Lounge, you will need valid travel documents (passport with at least 6 months validity, valid entry visa, etc) to clear Immigration and Customs. You have to collect your baggage and check-in again at the Departure Check-in Hall of your connecting flight. This does not apply to Scoot Thru and Tiger Connect passengers. Budget (low-cost) airlines that operates at Changi Airport include the following: Air Asia, Air India Express, Cebu Pacific Air, Firefly, Jetstar, Malindo Air, Lion Air, Scoot and Tigerair and Vietjet Air. For Passengers on Air France, KLM, Emirates, Finnair, Japan Airlines, Jet Airways, Qantas Airways or United Airlines connecting to your Jetstar flight on a single itinerary / ticket please proceed to Transfer C to check-in for your flight.

 

[Quickstatus]

yeah - assuming QF (and other airlines) continue to offer this service. It wouldn't be surprising if some airlines stopped this in future - not least because they will want to force pax onto single tickets and increase revenue.

I wonder what's it's costing the airlines to staff these transfer desks and manually chase and tag connecting bags.

IMO Airlines who don't interline to other airlines or to themselves really are setting themselves up for a shock when passengers will be unshackled from the alliance and BFOD looking more attractive. The losers will also be Classic award ticket holders who have to book T-3xx days ahead as 2 one way instead of return and then tag a connecting flight later. People do get with their feet and the distinction between FS and LC is increasingly getting blurred. Without interlining, alliances will lose attractiveness.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I wonder what's it's costing the airlines to staff these transfer desks and manually chase and tag connecting bags.

IMO Airlines who don't interline to other airlines or to themselves really are setting themselves up for a shock when passengers will be unshackled from the alliance and BFOD looking more attractive. The losers will also be Classic award ticket holders who have to book T-3xx days ahead as 2 one way instead of return and then tag a connecting flight later. People do get with their feet and the distinction between FS and LC is increasingly getting blurred. Without interlining, alliances will lose attractiveness.

I'm guessing there is an off-set when the airline transfer desk chases a bag and re-tags it vs the passenger having to do it. For the latter there is time involved with immigration staff (processing inbound and out) + check-in staff time + of course the handling of the baggage anyway. Maybe having the transfer desk do it saves the airport some $$ because it cuts out one or two steps (which have been paid for anyway through taxes)?

As for unshackling with the alliance... not sure whether this will work or not? For years CX has been better on paper than QF... full flat beds guaranteed on every service out of australia, connections in HKG on a quality airline (CX or KA), non-stops from more Aussie cities, and triple or quadruple daily frequencies... but people still choose to fly QF on Mk1 angled beds, muck around in SYD transferring, and put up with a day flight one way losing a whole day or work or holiday.

 

[ChrisCunard]

Does anyone know what QF/BA/SQ's rules are on carrying an electric razor aboard in hand luggage?

 

[Quickstatus]

Does anyone know what QF/BA/SQ's rules are on carrying an electric razor aboard in hand luggage?

Hi ChrisCunard, I started answering your question but then realised it's completely off topic. I'll answer it in "Your Questions" if you put it there

 

[ozbeachbabe]

So frustrating!

I have (my first ever) F ticket booked on BA which is connecting to a QF J class flight in Singapore. Two PRN's as I booked one using points.

When I booked all was well in the interline world.

Now...

Is 2:35 mins enough time to transfer in Singapore with bag reclaim, recheck etc?

Really do hope that there are no delays out of LHR!

Any tips for insurance that will cover a missed flight on a non-linked booking?

Meanwhile... News like this is just like one of those letters from a bank or insurance company that starts off "great news" and then goes on to explain how you're getting fewer benefits...

Interestingly, none of the 4 people I've spoken to at Qantas 131211 sales has any idea the rules have changed.

Why did you need to QF 4 times?

How did you get over to the UK to begin with? Was your outbound trip the mirror image of your return ie did you have a QF pnr Aust/SIN/Aust plus the BA one SIN/LHR/SIN or were your flights over on totally different pnrs and airlines?

Well this really is a very sad and inconvenient change to the OW rules. Having used the benefit a few times, it was one of the few reasons that had kept me booking OW (and Qantas for that matter) international flights. So very disappointed it has been enhanced away, and from my perspective it's going to result in less bookings on Qantas and OW airlines in the future.

It also makes Qantas FF points worth even less than they are now (hard to imagine I know!). In fact they could now reach a negative value per point - lets say your Qantas classic award booking to Singapore causes you to miss your onward BA flight - your points might now be valued at -8c/pt .

On to the future though, I was wondering what we can do to get around this change and I notice that a number of AFF'rs have mentioned that a travel agent can add additional sectors to an existing PNR (presumably only one they have created?). Now this was certainly news to me (the things you learn), but I'm guessing it is a topic of interest to a few on here, so I was hoping someone more knowledgeable than me could help clear a few things up in my mind.

• Can any travel agent do this, or only particular ones (ie do they need to be using a particular GDS or it doesn't matter)?
• What are the restrictions to this (probably too open-ended this question, so maybe the examples below, covering a range of possible options, is better):
  • QF SYD-BKK RTN in Y booked initially, can AY BKK-HEL-CDG RTN in J be added later?
  • QF SYD-SIN RTN in Y booked initially, can SQ SIN-LHR RTN in J be added later?
  • BA SIN-LHR RTN in Y booked initially, can QF SYD-SIN RTN Classic Award in U be added later?
  • JQ SYD-HNL RTN in J booked initially, can AA HNL-LAX RTN in Y be added later?
• Are there any additional costs charged by the first carrier when the TA adds the additional sectors?

Hopefully this all makes sense, but I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't as I might have completely misunderstood the whole concept.

I believe it would have to be a TA who uses Amadeus in the first 3 example above however it also assumes that a TA can purchase those fares for a reasonable price. While in example one the TA could tack on a J fare on AY BKK/HEL/CDG vv assuming they charge the same as an OTA. Ditto for the second example re a J class fare on SQ SIN/LHR/SIN. Your third example with the QF classic award would only work if the TA books the U class seats and QF ff are happy to ticket the Classic award from the TA pnr.

The fourth example I don't think it matter with separate pnrs as JQ just need to have an interline agreement with the onward carrier so theoretically you should just be able to give JQ the AA oncarriage flights to enter in to their checkin system.

I wonder what's it's costing the airlines to staff these transfer desks and manually chase and tag connecting bags.

The staff at the transfer desk aren't just there to retag bags only checked to SIN as they would need to be there to issue boarding passes for pax whose bags have been through checked but not received boarding passes due to no IATCI agreement eg SYD QF x/SIN TK IST. On the same ticket QF in SYD would through check the bag to IST however pax would just need to get there boarding pass from the SIN transit desk.

IMO Airlines who don't interline to other airlines or to themselves really are setting themselves up for a shock when passengers will be unshackled from the alliance and BFOD looking more attractive.

The losers will also be Classic award ticket holders who have to book T-3xx days ahead as 2 one way instead of return and then tag a connecting flight later. People do get with their feet and the distinction between FS and LC is increasingly getting blurred. Without interlining, alliances will lose attractiveness.

Not necessarily provided that when the return flights are booked the airline re-issues the eticket to then incorporate the outbound and the inbound journey on the same ticket. Having said that there may be a change fee to re-issue the ticket whereas if pax book two one way classic awards they wouldn't be out of pocket for change fees.

With the 280K RTW award ticket not sure if QF just hold the award flights until all sectors have been booked in U class at their respective booking windows of T-353 before issuing the one ticket.

 

[Quickstatus]

Not necessarily provided that when the return flights are booked the airline re-issues the eticket to then incorporate the outbound and the inbound journey on the same ticket. Having said that there may be a change fee to re-issue the ticket whereas if pax book two one way classic awards they wouldn't be out of pocket for change fees.

With the 280K RTW award ticket not sure if QF just hold the award flights until all sectors have been booked in U class at their respective booking windows of T-353 before issuing the one ticket.

I've never been able to get a return Classiic award flight incorporated into the PNR of the outbound flight. The only way would be to cancel the outbound award and then reissue both with the risk that the cancelled award seat may not reappear in the inventory.

 

[moa999]

Your third example with the QF classic award would only work if the TA books the U class seats and QF ff are happy to ticket the Classic award from the TA pnr.

Have you seen that done before??
I would have thought QF would want to own all FF bookings

 

[cmon0005]

yeah - assuming QF (and other airlines) continue to offer this service. It wouldn't be surprising if some airlines stopped this in future - not least because they will want to force pax onto single tickets and increase revenue.

I thought this was actually a SATS requirement/standard service, ie.airlines can't pick and choose?