oneworld fare rules updated - effective 01JUN2008

[Keith009]

Here is the relevant bit of the rules for ONE/GLOB/CIR products:

A MINIMUM OF 3 AND A MAXIMUM OF 20 SEGMENTS - 16 FOR TICKETS ISSUED ON/AFTER 01JUN08 - INCLUDING SURFACE SEGMENTS ARE PERMITTED FOR THE ENTIRE JOURNEY. -

Mark 01JUN2008 in your diaries and get ticketing asap!

Didn't see that one coming...

 

[littl_flier]

Apparently there are very few customers that actually max out the 20 segments on a xONE4 but I still see this as a huge devaluing of the product. Given the price increases over the last 12 months and the new rules resticting pax to 16 segments, the value has dimished considerably IMO.

I guess it won't be too bad for the DONE3's which can be quite good value out of NRT and 16 segments is about the maximum you can get out of those anyway.

Nonetheless, I guess I'll be ticketing mine late May and leaving open dated sectors/dummy dates for my flights in 09.

 

[moa999]

boooooo.. :evil: but expected
Makes a DONE5/6 almost worth not doing, particularly if you have forced surface segments due to the stupid city airports rule

 

[aus_flyer]

It may also have something to do with trying to eliminate paper tickets, rather than being (just) profit-driven.

Edit: Just saw other thread suggesting this as being a reason!

 

[Dave Noble]

boooooo.. :evil: but expected
Makes a DONE5/6 almost worth not doing, particularly if you have forced surface segments due to the stupid city airports rule

DONE5s are still v useful when wanting to visit 5 continents and it is still possible to visit a reasonable number of places. Can still do a fair bit with 16 sectors to play with

The surface sectors when changing airports is hardly the airline's fault is it?

Dave

 

[simongr]

This is still not bad value - just on a simple cost saving to get to NY this could put me in QF J for about 4K less than a straight J price - not as good as it was but not end of the world.

The surface segment thing was a bit rude but at least one of those problems has gone away with BA moving a lot of stuff to T5 out of LGW.

 

[Mwenenzi]

Here is the relevant bit of the rules for ONE/GLOB/CIR products:

A MINIMUM OF 3 AND A MAXIMUM OF 20 SEGMENTS - 16 FOR TICKETS ISSUED ON/AFTER 01JUN08 - INCLUDING SURFACE SEGMENTS ARE PERMITTED FOR THE ENTIRE JOURNEY. -

Mark 01JUN2008 in your diaries and get ticketing asap!
Didn't see that one coming...

What is the source or link of the rule change ??
This change has been rumoured for many months

 

[AlphaVictor]

Hi all,
Some more info to shed some light

http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/community/qantas-frequent-flyer/reduced-sectors-rtw-one-12765.html

 

[Mwenenzi]

Hi all, Some more info to shed some light
http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/community/qantas-frequent-flyer/reduced-sectors-rtw-one-12765.html

Except that know has yet been able to quote or a link to a definitive airline or ONEWORD source of the effective date on *ONE*. IATA do not run or own airlines
On FT people have made the comment that some airports cannot handle or issue E tickets
16 segment limit has been know about for many months. The real effective date when this starts to effect *ONE* is not

 

[Petch]

The surface sectors when changing airports is hardly the airline's fault is it?

In relation to ticketing, I would say yes.

A "ticket" is a marketing construct, with rules devised and implemented by the airlines. So how a "surface sector" is dealt with, is something totally within control of the airlines as a whole. Aside from the constant pressure on any sales/product team to find ways to charge more for less; I imagine that the cost of IT plus needing to fit with the lowest common denominator's airline system and the choice of cheaper airport fees/costs at secondary airports, would also be driving forces. Three things, completely within the airlines' control.

Assuming, of course, no government interference in the decision making process.:shock:

 

[Keith009]

What is the source or link of the rule change ??

I looked up the rules on expertflyer.

 

[Platy]

The surface sectors when changing airports is hardly the airline's fault is it?
Dave

So who does control that decision, if not the airlines?

It is certainly up to the collective airlines in the alliance to set a price - there is no mention of any price change to compensate for the loss of product attributes...

 

[Keith009]

So who does control that decision, if not the airlines?

It is actually a technical issue - surface segments HAVE to be counted for the purpose of ticketing whether the airlines like it or not. Surface segments might not have been introduced into the ONE/GLOB/CIR segment limit till June last year but it doesn't mean that they didn't appear as segments on your ticket prior to that. The IATA eticketing mandate means no itinerary can be greater than 16 segments, flown or surface. This wouldn't be such a problem if current ticketing systems allow the issuing of >16 segment etickets but alas...

Oddly enough open dating is still possible. Then again it might be an AA-specific problem that open dated etickets aren't possible.

I'm waiting to see how Star Alliance intends to cope with mandatory eticketing. AFAIK the RWSTARs allow 24 segments, and there are a series of cities considered "co terminals" (eg FLL and MIA), even when they're really not (there isn't a common city code for FLL and MIA is there??), and thus surface segments between those cities are not counted. To cope with the IATA mandate they'd have to reduce the segments to 16 and eliminate the coterminals exception. They've also got a mileage restriction. Now how's that for a reduction in value. And on top of that they've yet to complete IET links between their members.

 

[Dave Noble]

So who does control that decision, if not the airlines?

It is certainly up to the collective airlines in the alliance to set a price - there is no mention of any price change to compensate for the loss of product attributes...

The fact that there is a VOID sector between the open jaw points. All the sectors of the journey have to be accounted for, whether with a flight or a drive

consider if doing
SYD-LHR
diving to Manchester and then flying
MAN-HEL-LHR

there is a sector LHR-MAN , it just isn't being flown

This isn't new and has always been around; less noticeable on etickets , but v noticeable on OPTAB stock.

Dave

 

[Dave Noble]

Except that know has yet been able to quote or a link to a definitive airline or ONEWORD source of the effective date on *ONE*. IATA do not run or own airlines

Definitely is showing on DONE4 rules for QF issued tickets on Expert Flyer; it would seem unlikely that QF would introduce a 16 sector limit and the others to continue offering 20 however neither BA nor AA list this restriction yet

Dave

 

[Keith009]

Definitely is showing on DONE4 rules for QF issued tickets; it would seem unlikely that QF would introduce a 16 sector limit and the others to continue offering 20

I've found that the QF rules on EF get updated a few days earlier than the other airlines. Same thing happened with the rule change to include surface segments last year.

 

[serfty]

I believe the main source of the 16 segment limit rests with the GDS used by AA. Sabre is apparently unable to handle e-tickets having any more within the one PNR. I do know CX's systems can certainly handle more than 16 e-ticketed segments.

There are existing (industry standardised) ways to ticket itineraries of more than 16 segments/across more than one PNR - even AA can do this.

I believe it's basically a further tightening of the xONEx rules to simply limit the amount of travel one can obtain from the tickets. Using the IATA e-ticketing mandate is merely an excuse.:evil:

 

[Platy]

I believe it's basically a further tightening of the xONEx rules to simply limit the amount of travel one can obtain from the tickets. Using the IATA e-ticketing mandate is merely an excuse.:evil:

The airlines' fault, in other words. QED.

 

[Dave Noble]

The airlines' fault, in other words. QED.

eTicketing of >16 sectors by AA is not standard; if it was there would be very few paper tickets being written. If AA had a standard method to do it, I doubt that the agents would sit around handwriting tickets and I have not seen a 17+ sector eticket from AA

Given the eticketing mandate it makes logical sense that they will limit the tickets to that which can be etciketed

Dave

 

[wandering_fred]

eTicketing of >16 sectors by AA is not standard; if it was there would be very few paper tickets being written. If AA had a standard method to do it, I doubt that the agents would sit around handwriting tickets and I have not seen a 17+ sector eticket from AA

Jan 2007 my son had a 17 or 18 segment LONE4 issued in Perth as an AA (001) ticket sold by local TA that was computer printed. There is a local general service agent that appears to handle those sorts of issues..... for a price.

However re-issue in Bangkok by the AA General agent (to add the EVIPs ) and deal with the open segments required a paper ticket. The GA's clerk was not happy. And they did charge me the re-issue fee and I didn;t have the time to argue about times and flight numbers being "free"

YMMV

Fred