New Amex redemption rates for SQ/EK; adding transfers to QR/HA

[levelnine]

I'm starting to feel SQ savers aren't worth it up against Velocity and Avios. Under the current 2:1 Membership Rewards setup, one business return to London is 524,000 MR points; over a million MR points if flying with a spouse. When the 3:1 kicks in, it will be game over.

Since Amex is the only way to easily earn Avios in Australia (once Citibank is shut down by NAB & the Qatar option disappears) & you cannot churn Amex cards regularly, it is interesting to think how many people will be able to realistically scoop up QR redemptions in Australia.

Pretty much only business owners, I would assume.

 

[burmans]

Since Amex is the only way to easily earn Avios in Australia (once Citibank is shut down by NAB & the Qatar option disappears) & you cannot churn Amex cards regularly, it is interesting to think how many people will be able to realistically scoop up QR redemptions in Australia.

Pretty much only business owners, I would assume.

This comment assumes the Citibank branding will be shut down, I'm not sure this is true. Westpac operates multiple brands here in OZ and shows no signs of shutting them down, in fact I'm sure some consumers are blissfully unaware of the true ownership and maybe Westpac want it that way.

 

[levelnine]

This comment assumes the Citibank branding will be shut down, I'm not sure this is true.

It will be. Read NAB's latest half-yearly financial results. To be all done and dusted by December 2024. Just like they did with 86 400. Remember them?

 

[Gold Member]

Since Amex is the only way to easily earn Avios in Australia (once Citibank is shut down by NAB & the Qatar option disappears) & you cannot churn Amex cards regularly, it is interesting to think how many people will be able to realistically scoop up QR redemptions in Australia.

Pretty much only business owners, I would assume.

BA sell Avios with somewhat regular promotions which one can use to “scoop up” QR redemptions very easily and with immediate effect. And BA also offer their annual subscription via monthly point deposits. And finally, if you really want to go next level (beyond level nine ), you can always leverage the Avios Buy promos via “family” accounts which flow through to QR family accounts.

 

[levelnine]

BA sell Avios with somewhat regular promotions which one can use to “scoop up” QR redemptions very easily and with immediate effect. And BA also offer their annual subscription via monthly point deposits. And finally, if you really want to go next level (beyond level nine ), you can always leverage the Avios Buy promos via “family” accounts which flow through to QR family accounts.

That's a fair point. I hadn't thought of people overpaying (at least in my opinion) for Avios by buying them from BA directly.

 

[Gold Member]

That's a fair point. I hadn't thought of people overpaying (at least in my opinion) for Avios by buying them from BA directly.

Compared to the cost of credit card sign up bonuses they are indeed horrendously priced. But that fact was never in contention, so in relative terms and compared to miles bought directly with other airlines they are very reasonably priced (earn/burn value).

Bought miles are also available immediately for that surprise batch release of awards whereas CC miles takes weeks/months before they hit your account.

 

[Zanzara]

It will be. Read NAB's latest half-yearly financial results. To be all done and dusted by December 2024. Just like they did with 86 400. Remember them?

I think in 2022 NAB stated that ‘integration will occur over a 2-3 year period. In the meantime Citibank will continue to operate as a seperate standalone business’

Gives people a couple of years of continuous earning and whose to say that NAB would discontinue the arrangement especially now that AMEX have an agreement with QR?

Citibank are still operating fairly lucrative sign up deals. 275,000 points are on offer now for the prestige card for instance… https://www1.citibank.com.au/credit-cards

 

[levelnine]

I think in 2022 NAB stated that ‘integration will occur over a 2-3 year period. In the meantime Citibank will continue to operate as a seperate standalone business’

Gives people a couple of years of continuous earning and whose to say that NAB would discontinue the arrangement especially now that AMEX have an agreement with QR?

Citibank are still operating fairly lucrative sign up deals. 275,000 points are on offer now for the prestige card for instance… https://www1.citibank.com.au/credit-cards

I've already given you the latest source of information on when integration will occur. You can look it up for yourself if you doubt me.

The Transactional Services Agreement, which allows NAB to use the Citi brand, expires in December 2024. Integration is scheduled to start in June 2024. That is not 'a couple of years'.

While we don't know what NAB will do on integration, the greater likelihood is that Citi's products (including transfer partners) will be merged into NAB's products than the other way around. You can view their transfer partners here.

 

[burmans]

Having worked on many integration projects I always take these stated timelines with a grain of salt! But would also note that there are plenty of Citibank credit card ‘products’ that are white labelled, ie not Citibank branded and it’s the brand that they are only licensed for until Dec 2024 (currently, ie assuming integration goes as planned).

 

[levelnine]

Having worked on many integration projects I always take these stated timelines with a grain of salt! But would also note that there are plenty of Citibank credit card ‘products’ that are white labelled, ie not Citibank branded and it’s the brand that they are only licensed for until Dec 2024 (currently, ie assuming integration goes as planned).

None of which have Qatar as a transfer partner.

 

[burmans]

None of which have Qatar as a transfer partner.

Currently! It appears Qatar have decided they do want Australian business so would be far from surprised by Qatar negotiating this with other card issuers. We shouldn't assume everything goes against us, my experience with FF over many years is that whenever one option gets removed, its not long until another opens up.

 

[levelnine]

Currently! It appears Qatar have decided they do want Australian business so would be far from surprised by Qatar negotiating this with other card issuers. We shouldn't assume everything goes against us, my experience with FF over many years is that whenever one option gets removed, its not long until another opens up.

Sure, anything is possible. But you clearly have not been following the trend of the credit card market in Australia if you think it is wise not to assume everything goes against us. Even with Amex's recent addition of Qatar, it was in exchange for a devaluation of their most valuable transfer partner.

 

[Luciana Lanza]

NZ amex plat holder here. Got that 20% bonus offer re mr > qr avios. Truly pathetic deal for nz card holders. We have a 3:1 transfer rate for MR>QR so with that bonus offer I’d get 24k avios for 60k MR. Vs aussie amex 36k avios for 60k mr.

I’m unsure whether I’ll renew that platinum card next Feb. Putting well over six figures on that card. Costs $1250 annual fee. Might just as well go and buy aeroplan miles when they are 2c nzd/mile instead of paying that fee. Struggling to use that Accor plus night as well. Could just pay for priority pass membership and still come out on top rather than renew that amex plat card. Sorry. Rant over!

I agree with the maths and conclusion…. I’ve got $1750 annual fee and absolutely can’t justify it.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

my experience with FF over many years is that whenever one option gets removed, its not long until another opens up.

I think this used to be the case. However, I would tend to believe that for half a decade now that we are in a downward spiral where the new opportunities are by and large not as good as the old ones. And the golden gooses that used to open up every now and again for those quick to act have also now not been seen for some time.

There used to be great opportunities to earn basically free points (not factoring in one's own time), but today most come at $ cost, and it has now become more about effectively buying flights at a discount, rather than at almost zero ( ie just taxes and airport charges, and not fuel fines).

CC churning remains, but now mainly to FF programs with fuel levies. And the CC Churning is also not as generous as it was.

For a long, long, time the FF game seemed too good to be true, but it was. Sadly while still helpful, it for myself is not the amazing value that it was.

 

[georgie23]

In my experience saver awards are available even at peak times but you need to book then 11 months out when they first appear and they then go within a few days.

i have been booking lots to europe and look every day at 10:00 when released and see only advantage

 

[burmans]

i have been booking lots to europe and look every day at 10:00 when released and see only advantage

This may be the bigger problem than earning points, I have to think AFF/FT/Ozbargain may be part of the problem in introducing many more people to the ‘FF game’. I don’t have a problem earning points and have plenty across multiple programs. But using many of those points at a reasonable cost is much more difficult, not least because there are many more people with lots of points out there. So, all in all, not unhappy about those who spruik the line that FF programs are not worth it.

 

[dein_gesicht]

This may be the bigger problem than earning points, I have to think AFF/FT/Ozbargain may be part of the problem in introducing many more people to the ‘FF game’. I don’t have a problem earning points and have plenty across multiple programs. But using many of those points at a reasonable cost is much more difficult, not least because there are many more people with lots of points out there. So, all in all, not unhappy about those who spruik the line that FF programs are not worth it.

I agree but many people either never accumulate a lot of points, spend on economy fares, or just spend 1m QFF points on a flight (a guy at work did it )

 

[fkcn]

Can anyone advise if the AMEX transfer to AVIOS comes with immediate 20% bonus, or is that credited later? As will influence how many AMEX points I move. Thanks!

 

[burmans]

I agree but many people either never accumulate a lot of points, spend on economy fares, or just spend 1m QFF points on a flight (a guy at work did it )

Certainly agree many are not sophisticated frequent flyers but they are still in the market and increasing demand and at least some are taking the advice here, on Pointhacks etc.

 

[dein_gesicht]

Can anyone advise if the AMEX transfer to AVIOS comes with immediate 20% bonus, or is that credited later? As will influence how many AMEX points I move. Thanks!

I haven't done it, but I hear the bonus doesn't come straight away on FB